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Thread: Twin Peregrines

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    Default Twin Peregrines

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    These two fledged about 2 days ---off the Pacific cliffs near Sydney in Nov. last. Boy on top, big and much darker and bigger girl below. Very lucky amongst many shots to get one where they are almost in the same plane, in this case bound together. Hope you like it.

    A1
    200/600
    @ mm600
    1/4000
    f6.3
    iso 1600
    hh
    About 30% crop
    C and C appreciated

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    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
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    Hi Ian ... what a cool capture of this magnificent birds .

    Sadly the subjects do look funky in terms of details and the whole rest of the editing .... smudgy , " false colors " , strange sharpening ... and the color halo along the birds is looking odd .

    Sorry that I does sound harsh .... but I just being honest with my thoughts . Wonder what you have done to the image in post production . Has a cartoony look and feel to it . Maybe not the best idea to throw away 70 % of the pixels

    TFS Andreas

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    Andreas thanks for your comments. And these were 2 weeks not two days on the wing. I now see the halo-- reddish? and have no idea how it got there. Will go back through the processing again.

    On your comment about losing 70% of the pixels .This is a crop from the vertical. Vertical pixel loss is all that counts which is actually 38% as all the rest is blue sky and pixel loss on the right original of the birds so surely becomes irrelevant in the cropping calculation

    Thanks again

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    Hi Ian .... yes reddish very wide " halo " , interesting that you do not know where it does come from , i would know if this was mine as i know my workflow .

    Also interesting your thoughts about cropping and the loss of pixels in conjunction with IQ ( which was my point ) , regardless of the used kit . There are limitations how much we can crop without loosing image quality ( more or less depending on the used kit ) . But i am with you ... you might have other IQ expectations than me , which is ok .
    For me the IQ did not hold up in this posting , as a consequence i would have cropped it wider ... to retain a better IQ in the subjects , as the blue sky is not important in the context of IQ .

    Cheers Andreas

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    Macro and Flora Moderator Jonathan Ashton's Avatar
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    Hi Ian, a fine capture I looked at this image yesterday and hesitated to comment, but I get the impression that the Sony files invite the opportunity for heavy cropping and it really doesn't do the image quality any good at all. I would suggest a looser crop and start from scratch with the processing, less is more is an expression that springs to mind. I feel there is a very good image there, some gentle processing will bring out the details.

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    Really great flight pose and great look from the low bird! I agree about the processing and loss of detail though. Hope to see a repost with a lot less crop and fixing the halo

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    Spectacular capture but horrific image optimization -- the birds are totally enameled. The large crop is NOT the problem.

    I invite you to send me the raw file via large file sender to samandmayasgrandpa@att.net. I'd be glad to take a crack at it.

    with love, artie
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    Thanks Artie I have sent the raw. As you will see it is not a large crop for reasons I have explained above .The histogram has not hit the wall on the right but the time of day could have been a hour later. This was taken at 3.30 pm and the eye lights reflect that time as you can see.
    Don't get these birds doing this stuff at their speeds within shooting range very often look forward to what you can do with it.Thanks again.Ian.

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    Hey Ian, Thanks for sending the raw. I think that the problems with the image were self-inflicted. WDYT? More importantly, what do Andreas and Jon think?

    with love, artie
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

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    Yes as i said to you I was probably trying to get evening colour out of these birds a hour or two before its available. And they are in the evening light nothing less than 'gorgeous.'
    I see you have given them a touch more room but not much. Still slightly less than 40% vertical crop. Nice to know that the exposure was perfect on raw digger. Thanks for taking the trouble getting the best out of the frame.
    Very grateful Artie
    Best Ian

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Hey Ian, Thanks for sending the raw. I think that the problems with the image were self-inflicted. WDYT? More importantly, what do Andreas and Jon think?

    with love, artie
    Hi Arthur and Ian ...
    Arthurs RP is definitely better than the OP . Wonder what Ian has done to it ....well he will know , hopefully .

    Looking at your RP ... I am wondering where the blue thin halo is coming from .... outlining the left side of the birds ??
    For me personally the sky color is on the " wrong side " of the blue spectrum and the birds are too bright in the lighter tones with loss of potential details ....- if there is any in the original capture ??!!
    But this is just my personal view .. you might not agree .... see my RP made of yours Arthur .

    Cheers Andreas

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    Thanks all for your input. my original was a mess up. I cannot see the blue thin you are talking about Andreas ,only a black line which is the start of the back of both these birds which are all black. Thanks again to both you and Artie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McLachlan View Post
    Thanks all for your input. my original was a mess up. I cannot see the blue thin you are talking about Andreas ,only a black line which is the start of the back of both these birds which are all black. Thanks again to both you and Artie.
    Ian .... might be a difference in monitors and/or how critical one does look at the presented images , will shut this down for me .... as the blue out line is quite evident for me and if you do not see it does make no sense to discuss about it .

    It is your frame and you have to be happy with it .... not others .

    Cheers Andreas

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    My opinion is that the birds are too bright, there is very little detail in the plumage and also in the legs/feet, I still feel there is more to be had.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McLachlan View Post
    Thanks Artie I have sent the raw. As you will see it is not a large crop for reasons I have explained above .The histogram has not hit the wall on the right but the time of day could have been a hour later. This was taken at 3.30 pm and the eye lights reflect that time as you can see.
    Don't get these birds doing this stuff at their speeds within shooting range very often look forward to what you can do with it.Thanks again.Ian.
    YAW Ian. My pleasure. It is a fairly large crop from where I come from :-)

    with love, artie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McLachlan View Post
    Yes as i said to you I was probably trying to get evening colour out of these birds a hour or two before its available. And they are in the evening light nothing less than 'gorgeous.' I see you have given them a touch more room but not much. Still slightly less than 40% vertical crop. Nice to know that the exposure was perfect on raw digger. Thanks for taking the trouble getting the best out of the frame.
    Very grateful Artie
    Best Ian
    The most likely cause of enamel-looking birds with no feather details is much too much noise reduction.

    Thank you for your kind words.

    with love, artie
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas Liedmann View Post
    Hi Arthur and Ian ...
    Arthurs RP is definitely better than the OP . Wonder what Ian has done to it ....well he will know , hopefully .

    Looking at your RP ... I am wondering where the blue thin halo is coming from .... outlining the left side of the birds ??
    For me personally the sky color is on the " wrong side " of the blue spectrum and the birds are too bright in the lighter tones with loss of potential details ....- if there is any in the original capture ??!!
    But this is just my personal view .. you might not agree .... see my RP made of yours Arthur .

    Cheers Andreas
    Thanks. It was a fairly large crop. And over-saturated. And likely too much NR. As much as I enlarge the JPEG, I am not seeing any blue halo. I like your repost with the birds a bit darker.

    As far as your comments on the blue sky, as we both know the tones in a blue sky are quite subject to personal preference. That said, I like your blu sky better. In retrospect, I should not have adjusted the HUE -- too purple.

    with love, artie
    Last edited by Arthur Morris; 05-05-2023 at 07:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Ashton View Post
    My opinion is that the birds are too bright, there is very little detail in the plumage and also in the legs/feet, I still feel there is more to be had.

    Agree on the birds being too light in my repost. Otherwise, have Ian send you the raw and have a crack at it :-)

    with love, artie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Ashton View Post
    Hi Ian, a fine capture I looked at this image yesterday and hesitated to comment, but I get the impression that the Sony files invite the opportunity for heavy cropping and it really doesn't do the image quality any good at all. I would suggest a looser crop and start from scratch with the processing, less is more is an expression that springs to mind. I feel there is a very good image there, some gentle processing will bring out the details.
    Jon,

    The problems with the IQ in the original post had zero to do with cropping and everything to do with the post processing. I have done many large crops of sharp Sony ⍺1 images with virtually no loss of IQ.

    with love, artie
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas Liedmann View Post
    Hi Ian ... what a cool capture of this magnificent birds .

    Sadly the subjects do look funky in terms of details and the whole rest of the editing .... smudgy , " false colors " , strange sharpening ... and the color halo along the birds is looking odd .

    Sorry that I does sound harsh .... but I just being honest with my thoughts . Wonder what you have done to the image in post production . Has a cartoony look and feel to it . Maybe not the best idea to throw away 70 % of the pixels

    TFS Andreas
    As I said to Jon, the problems with the original post had close to zero to do with the large crop.

    with love, artie
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










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    You hace all spent too much time on my inadequate post .I have sent the raw to Johnathon .Thanks

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