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Thread: Red Fox Last Edition

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    Default Red Fox Last Edition

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    Took this last week in Yellowstone's Lamar Valley. Fox was laying on a hillside, got out with about half a dozen other photographers. Took my shots then went down the road to shoot some moose. About a hour later decided to go back to the fox and get some more photos with a different perspective.
    As I pull up to about thirty photographers now. My brain is saying Red Fox but in reality it is a coyote. I ask a photographer what happened to the fox? He says the coyote came along and had him for breakfast. I missed all the action unfortunately. All about timing.
    Processed with Dpp 4,Topaz Photoshop. Took out some grass. Comments and critiques appreciated.
    Canon 1DX 111
    100-400 f/4.5-5.6 L Is
    Av 6.3
    400.0 mm
    1/400
    Iso 2000

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    Love the winter setting. The bedded pose is nice with the direct eye contact. Nice and sharp with nice detail.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    . Took my shots then went down the road to shoot some moose. About a hour later decided to go back to the fox and get some more photos with a different perspective.
    Very good move Kevin.

    Overall I like the framing, gaze and look to camera, but the image appears very bright, lacking some tonal depth, everything is very 'even' so to speak. With using the 100-400 and crop, he seems quite close so perhaps f/8, but all appears sharp where it needs to be. The colours work nicely against the snow and you do have some cool 'pop'.

    Some suggestions:

    Perhaps darken slightly the FG to pullout some more detail with Exp, not Contrast or levels
    Perhaps darken the BKG, but more that the FG so you start to get some depth
    With the fox I might 'Burn & Dodge' the fur so again you get some variations
    FG grasses to the right optional, stay or go.

    I'm wondering Kevin, did you brighten this, if it was ETTR you might be going the other way, to slightly darken, or the monitor calibration is a bit too bright? At ISO 2000 with snow I'm surprised you needed much NR, if any...?

    Great to see something different, with lockdown non of us are getting out, all at home so envy you getting mobile. Its a lovely image that has a lot of potential.

    TFS
    Steve

    Meant to add this FWIW, might help visualise my comments?
    Last edited by Steve Kaluski; 01-24-2021 at 11:06 AM.
    Post Production: Itís ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Thanks Steve I do agree with you my image is too bright. I did darken the snow some trying to get some detail. I didn't want to go too much. Not sure about your post seems like the snow is too dirty or shaded look Yeah not much noise but have been using Topaz as the work flow.I took photos from 5.6 /7.1 trying to lose the grass in the background.

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    Not sure about your post seems like the snow is too dirty or shaded look
    Could well be Kevin, you didn't leave me much to pull out , the Raw obviously would be better.

    Not sure about your post seems like the snow is too dirty or shaded look
    It's just another stage here you didn't need, if for Noise Reduction, where shadows and darks have moose due to poor Exposure, don't let it rule things.

    I took photos from 5.6 /7.1 trying to lose the grass in the background.
    More that the fox was close to the grasses and not much distance between the two.

    BTW what was the EV and where was the FP?
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    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
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    Hi Kevin a super cool wintery fox ..... I do like the head on view .
    Nice low view point .
    Regarding tone and color I would say , I prefer Steve's view in general . Might be not perfect ... but there was not much to extract from the snow . So with the raw there should be more possible .
    Well well .... the general use of Topaz Denoise , must be very good if a lot of folks jumping on that Topaz Train .... even at low Iso range . Funny enough , if correctly exposed ( ETTR ) I do not even use NR with fairly old kit .... apart from the DPP internal with low settings .

    TFS Andreas

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    Macro and Flora Moderator Jonathan Ashton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas Liedmann View Post
    Hi Kevin a super cool wintery fox ..... I do like the head on view .
    Nice low view point .
    Regarding tone and color I would say , I prefer Steve's view in general . Might be not perfect ... but there was not much to extract from the snow . So with the raw there should be more possible .
    Well well .... the general use of Topaz Denoise , must be very good if a lot of folks jumping on that Topaz Train .... even at low Iso range . Funny enough , if correctly exposed ( ETTR ) I do not even use NR with fairly old kit .... apart from the DPP internal with low settings .

    TFS Andreas
    Andreas Topaz Denoise is pretty much a part of my processing regime...... but that does not mean I necessarily use it for noise reduction. I use it for sharpening instead of sharpening during ACR/LR/DPP stage, I think with care you can get better results.

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    Hi Jon, TDN is not and can never be, better than PS in sharpening images, it’s too limited. As the name states ‘De Noise’, and should IMHO be used for that purpose and that any sharpening for output should be left to more advanced software, PS.

    My worry is that folk are ultimately using it when files do not require it, especially with files under ISO1600, if properly exposed there will be minimal noise, if any, but all want this ultra smooth backdrop, why???
    Post Production: Itís ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    In addition Jon, unless Kevin applied TDN at the Raw stage, it will degrade the file, (and perhaps create over sharp images if additional sharpening is applied at output and some artifacts) as it’s applied to a ‘baked’ Tiff. This is why any NR is left till the end of the Raw PP process, as you drill down, hence it’s applied before exporting as a Tiff.
    Post Production: Itís ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Ashton View Post
    Andreas Topaz Denoise is pretty much a part of my processing regime...... but that does not mean I necessarily use it for noise reduction. I use it for sharpening instead of sharpening during ACR/LR/DPP stage, I think with care you can get better results.
    Jon ... i am with Steve , why should I use a NR piece of software for sharpening ??? It is build for denoising , I think , and the sharpening is implemented to overcome the blurring from the noise removal . As Topaz has a separate sharpening plugin .... so , I think , one should use that one for the purpose of sharpening . But hey .... we all work differently .

    It is just very remarkable how many folks just jump onto new stuff , specially when software is promising " no brainer automatism " .... like Topaz is doing . Click a few buttons and you are good to go .... again we all work differently and this is fitting very well in the modern world .

    So i am pretty old school .... in these terms .

    As Steve said .... you are working on the TIF file , so no capture sharpening is taking place ??!!!

    It is like always ... at some point , we all are not coming together in some cases . Ok for me and even more ok for the companies who are selling their stuff .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    In addition Jon, unless Kevin applied TDN at the Raw stage, it will degrade the file, (and perhaps create over sharp images if additional sharpening is applied at output and some artifacts) as it’s applied to a ‘baked’ Tiff. This is why any NR is left till the end of the Raw PP process, as you drill down, hence it’s applied before exporting as a Tiff.
    As far as I know , the software is not able to work on the raw file . Needs to create a virtual copy and work on that , at least with C1 . With DPP not even possible as it does not allow plugin use ... like LR or C1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas Liedmann View Post
    As far as I know , the software is not able to work on the raw file . Needs to create a virtual copy and work on that , at least with C1 . With DPP not even possible as it does not allow plugin use ... like LR or C1
    No! it does work on the raw file and I mean raw not TIFF and not DNG. I have used ACR for sharpening and NR - it gives good results but I think Topaz gives better on Olympus files at any rate. After Topaz Denoise I process in PSCC as required and then sharpen for web and I am finding I need less sharpening. I have tried Unsharp mask on raw files using smart filters and masks to avoid too much contrast but quite honestly I think I am getting better results and much more convenient results with Topaz. Topaz tends to oversharpen by default and also by "Automatic" application, I find the files need minimal sharpening at the raw stage.

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    Ok Jon .... most importantly you must be happy with it . If you are than it is great .

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    It does work Andreas when used correctly, but everyone exports from LR or PS and applies it to the 'baked 16 bit Tiff' which is pointless and a waste of time, it doesn't work in DPP as you say, no clue in C1.
    Post Production: Itís ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
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    Steve ... could you shed some light , how it does work ???
    Tried to find out ... but it was a bit confusing !!!
    Some files seem to work , some don't .
    DNG , NEF , ORF no word about CR2 or 3 files .
    By knowing it would not work with DPP , still interested in this stuff

    C1 you can use TDN as a plugin .... but you have to work on a variant and not the original file . And as far as I know .... the variant is a tif .
    Last edited by Andreas Liedmann; 01-26-2021 at 06:11 AM.

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    Hi Andreas, I have told folk so many times over the last year, but no one listens, to the point where I just feel I'm just wasting my time.
    Post Production: Itís ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    No worries .... found the switch for the light bulb .
    Not usable in my workflow .
    Mr A .... explained it quite well

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas Liedmann View Post
    No worries .... found the switch for the light bulb .
    Not usable in my workflow .
    Mr A .... explained it quite well
    Good man!!! It took me a long time too!!!

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Time to move on now gentlemen.
    Post Production: Itís ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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