EOS R6 RF 100-500 RF 2xtc @1000 f14 1/1000 ISO 1600 HH, Manual EXP, cropped for better composition
Last evening, on a clear afternoon, spotted this beauty about an hour before sunset with full sun and deep shadows behind. This looks like first year moving to full adulthood. Still has lores from juvenile (white) phase.
The image design is perfect. I love the dark green background. It could use a bit more head turn toward us. The feather detail looks a bit coarse to me. What do others think on that?
Lastly, this looks like a molting adult. What are you seeing that makes you think that it is a young bird?
with love, artie
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The image design is perfect. I love the dark green background. It could use a bit more head turn toward us. The feather detail looks a bit coarse to me. What do others think on that?
Lastly, this looks like a molting adult. What are you seeing that makes you think that it is a young bird?
with love, artie
You may be right but it is the lores throwing me off. I have only seen this hue on the white juveniles' lores. Because of the sharpness off the sensor (I have dialed back to 1 from 2 for the R) in DPP, have had very gentle touch on the final sharpening for presentation and have been going further lately given the feedback. These fine feathers crisscross a lot and the crest is very well lit. Would also be curious what others think. Thanks for the very valued help (including AF guide).
The feather detail looks a bit coarse to me. What do others think on that?
Artie agree, it does look coarse, I'm not sure if David darkened the image, but coupled with Contrast and or Levels and sharpening it just builds up and creates this look. Taking the OP, endeavouring to strip back some of, what I would call this 'dark mask' layer and just working on the numbers the actual background is a rusty red. Now this could be compounded by David's slight handicap of colour blindness and so some colours could have been exaggerated (sorry David, don't mean to be rude here). I have no idea on the colouration of there subject and if there is more blue and the reds are slightly deeper in tone??? BKG I just darkened the colour, but avoided black.
Probably barking up the tree here with the RP...
David i still have a feeling that any pre-sharpening is too high especially the radius that folk like to ramp up, then couple with output sharpening...
Cheers
Steve
Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.
Feather detail is excellent even if a bit corse in the original post. My biggest issue is the head angle; we really need more direct eye contact to make these close-cropped headshots/portraits work in most instances.
Though not visible in the original post, Steve's work-up shows some sort of weird, dark line along the front side of the neck and onto the bottom side of the chin to the eye. Curious where that game from.
Artie agree, it does look coarse, I'm not sure if David darkened the image, but coupled with Contrast and or Levels and sharpening it just builds up and creates this look. Taking the OP, endeavouring to strip back some of, what I would call this 'dark mask' layer and just working on the numbers the actual background is a rusty red. Now this could be compounded by David's slight handicap of colour blindness and so some colours could have been exaggerated (sorry David, don't mean to be rude here). I have no idea on the colouration of there subject and if there is more blue and the reds are slightly deeper in tone??? BKG I just darkened the colour, but avoided black.
Probably barking up the tree here with the RP...
David i still have a feeling that any pre-sharpening is too high especially the radius that folk like to ramp up, then couple with output sharpening...
Cheers
Steve
Hi Steve, First and foremost, you will never be seen to be rude, rest assured. Sometimes I overreact to valid comments like "needs more sharpening". That is the case here. As far as the colors, I believe that was because I tried to warm too much in camera raw (fear of the dreaded magenta cast). Thanks as always for everyone's very valued help. And Steve fire away at will as it will never be seen as rude or being too critical, mate.
ps
Repost looks great. Just curious, how did you unsharpen JPG?
Last edited by David Roach; 01-07-2021 at 10:35 AM.
I have commented multiple times on the color noise - just curious if you want me to stop mentioning or if you just missed the comments? It is extremely pronounced with the R5 including all my frames.
Really would like to see a repost with you checking the box in LR at bottom to remove color noise. Or, if in DPP just go to the second tab and move the "Reduce Chrominance Noise" up to 10 or 11 just for the sake of comparison.
Personally, I see a bunch of color noise here and I think it may be factoring into the sharpness/detail debate going on. Could be wrong...
I have commented multiple times on the color noise - just curious if you want me to stop mentioning or if you just missed the comments? It is extremely pronounced with the R5 including all my frames.
Firstly David I don't want to hi jack the thread, but...
Brian can you forward a Raw, I'd be interested to see. Colour noise is an issue with Canon and Artie did mention a while back this, but the files should be better, but Nikon is cleaner in the real blacks IMHO. As you saw I posted ISO10k and no real colour noise as such, be interest just to see what you are seeing.
in LR at bottom to remove color noise.
That's for Chromatic Aberration Brian, you need to use the two sliders under NR, Luminance & Colour sliders, but just be careful as you then may need to adjust the Masking, then sharpening, it's a vicious cycle...
I have commented multiple times on the color noise - just curious if you want me to stop mentioning
Again, never experiencing Colour Blindness David, but you might not just see it, as simple as that????
Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.
Firstly David I don't want to hi jack the thread, but...
Brian can you forward a Raw, I'd be interested to see. Colour noise is an issue with Canon and Artie did mention a while back this, but the files should be better, but Nikon is cleaner in the real blacks IMHO. As you saw I posted ISO10k and no real colour noise as such, be interest just to see what you are seeing.
That's for Chromatic Aberration Brian, you need to use the two sliders under NR, Luminance & Colour sliders, but just be careful as you then may need to adjust the Masking, then sharpening, it's a vicious cycle...
Again, never experiencing Colour Blindness David, but you might not just see it, as simple as that????
Thanks Steve. I am referring specifically to chromatic aberration - maybe I generically label it as color noise but they can have a similar effect in my research. Color noise is often visible in the bkg of images, with blue/red/green specs but I'm referring to extreme blue/red and often gray splotches that mask and confuse detail (for lack of better words). I usually don't mess with those sliders FWIW but always select to remove the aberration in LR and chromatic noise slider in DPP.
Have David email you this raw and mess with those. If you look in the middle of the neck, down below the jaw a bit you can see it clearly in those feathers.
Last edited by Brian Sump; 01-07-2021 at 12:43 PM.
Especially where images are not well exposed and you lift the darks and or shadows, it might be more noticeable in the R5 than R6 perhaps, but using ETTR and a good SS should help, so if there is anything you do need to do, it's purely to 'darken' areas rather than lift them.
CA - I found tends to be on the edges of backlit subjects where you get the fringing you are referring too, yes cyan or magenta, on foliage for example, can be compounded with saturation being pushed to IMHO.
Last edited by Steve Kaluski; 01-07-2021 at 03:59 PM.
Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.
Brian .... difficult to have a discussion when things become mixed up .
You are throwing two different things into one box .... David might become confused . One should know , which to tool use to overcome different technical shortcomings of lens or sensor . Plus things become amplified in post ..... like when sharpening in standard and not luminosity mode , colors become pushed as well !!! And the color fringing ( or chromatic aberration ) is being amplified .
Other thing is .... your COLOR NOISE values in DPP are overkill , IMHO .... you blur way more colors than needed !!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can have the same effect in Photoshop by using the color blend mode on a pixel layer and hammer the layer with surface blur or even gaussian , and one can work targeted , not globally like in DPP or LR !!!
Regarding this frame .... the " color noise " is just along the sharpened edges. Another issue might be the " Canon sRGb " that David is using when saving the file ????? Just guessing ....
Hope you guys do not mind , me jumping into the discussion
David ... sorry high jacked your thread !!!
Apart from the technical " Issues " .... I like the tight frame . The dark BG is quite nice .
TFS Andreas
Brian .... difficult to have a discussion when things become mixed up .
You are throwing two different things into one box .... David might become confused . One should know , which to tool use to overcome different technical shortcomings of lens or sensor . Plus things become amplified in post ..... like when sharpening in standard and not luminosity mode , colors become pushed as well !!! And the color fringing ( or chromatic aberration ) is being amplified .
Other thing is .... your COLOR NOISE values in DPP are overkill , IMHO .... you blur way more colors than needed !!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can have the same effect in Photoshop by using the color blend mode on a pixel layer and hammer the layer with surface blur or even gaussian , and one can work targeted , not globally like in DPP or LR !!!
Regarding this frame .... the " color noise " is just along the sharpened edges. Another issue might be the " Canon sRGb " that David is using when saving the file ????? Just guessing ....
Hope you guys do not mind , me jumping into the discussion
David ... sorry high jacked your thread !!!
Apart from the technical " Issues " .... I like the tight frame . The dark BG is quite nice .
TFS Andreas
You can hijack my thread anytime, my friend and thanks for the help.
Hi David .... good to hear . As we hopefully learn from each other !!!
Asking for curiosity , why are you having your posted files in " Canon´s " sRGB and not using the international standard sRBG color profile ???? I am asking myself this for a while now .
I hope you have set your working color space in DPP to Adobe RGB or Wide Gamut RGB !!!
Without using direct quotes I will address several points. David -- I totally missed the yellow lores. Perhaps this is a bird in its second year. If you showed me only the neck I would have said "Reddish Egret." There is some strange molt going on. As for Steve's repost in Pane #4, I am confused -- with all due respect to Steve -- as to why nobody asked if he were doing some sort of hallucinogenic drugs ... Those colors are weird. There is tons of noise in the BKGR in the OP. I firmly believe that the R5 shows lots of color noise in the dark tones and shadows ...
with love to all, artie
BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.
BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.
Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,
Without using direct quotes I will address several points. David -- I totally missed the yellow lores. Perhaps this is a bird in its second year. If you showed me only the neck I would have said "Reddish Egret." There is some strange molt going on. As for Steve's repost in Pane #4, I am confused -- with all due respect to Steve -- as to why nobody asked if he were doing some sort of hallucinogenic drugs ... Those colors are weird. There is tons of noise in the BKGR in the OP. I firmly believe that the R5 shows lots of color noise in the dark tones and shadows ...
with love to all, artie
Hi Artie and thanks again. I have several images of this bird from different angles and distances and the lores are this color. I researched a little and found the most frequent hybrid is with tricolored herons and their lores are yellow. Still wondering about this bird... As far as color noise, I am far from the expert being partially color blind.
Peace,
David
with all due respect to Steve -- as to why nobody asked if he were doing some sort of hallucinogenic drugs ... Those colors are weird.
LOL Artie , I must admit, with the tightening of Lockdown where only 'essential travel' is permitted now ie food or meds, and where the strong possibility is that face masks must be worn when leaving home in London, I am now going stir crazy perhaps and that the RP may not do justice and perhaps more in keeping with the great Walt Disney's film Fantasia, however no magic mushrooms were consumed whilst processing the file.
Joking apart, a RP is only an assumption as we know and taking David's OP, then changing the WB to find a mid grey point (neutral) then all colours will change, not always for the good, plus not knowing the subject colours may have become more exaggerated than they should be, but worth a punt I thought.
Great to see you taking all of this in David, makes for an interesting thread I think????
David, just for curiosity, nothing more, can you either post or drop me a line with the raw as shot, but converted to sRGB with no other processing, be good just to see the starting point.
Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.
Little Blue in transition...
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Originally Posted by Arthur Morris
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