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Thread: To Infinity....

  1. #1
    BPN Member Brian Sump's Avatar
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    Default To Infinity....

    Name:  20201125-Gadwall-Hen-Wingsdown-CLOSE-Brian-Sump-BMS_3806-DPP-FORUM-SIG-USM126-brush-midsdown-bru.jpg
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    Gadwall Hen pretty close by on her way up to the Heavens...

    R5
    600mm + 1.4x
    Handheld
    ISO 1000
    f6.3
    1/6400

    DPP and PS. Finding I am getting better results in DPP on certain images than LR with the R5. Added some canvas left and brushed away a small blue sky opening.
    Last edited by Brian Sump; 12-01-2020 at 12:32 AM.

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    BPN Member Paul Burdett's Avatar
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    Brian: Maybe I should pick your brain as to your workflow, as you have certainly come up with a beautiful image here. A striking inflight pose, lighting, HA and super smooth BG. Love the colouring on the beak and the feather detail. Is that a shadow on the lower far wing? It does draw my eye somewhat. Overall I'd be super happy to get this shot. Cheers.

    What's your feeling about the 600mm and adapter? on the R5? have you noticed any rolling shutter distortion in any images? (especially in flight)
    Last edited by Paul Burdett; 12-01-2020 at 01:12 AM.

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    Nice work, Brian. Where ever you are shooting these duck images the location is wonderful. The light, the feather detail, the background all top shelf. Thank you for sharing.
    Joe Przybyla

    "Sometimes I do get to places just as God is ready to have somebody click the shutter"... Ansel Adams

    www.amazinglight.smugmug.com

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    Avian Moderator gail bisson's Avatar
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    This is beautiful Brian.
    Pose, IQ, water droplets on the belly all super. Perfect catchlight.
    For my taste I wouldn't mind a sliver more canvas LHS but that is purely personal taste.
    Well done!

  5. #5
    Macro and Flora Moderator Jonathan Ashton's Avatar
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    I really like this shot Brian, super exposure excellent details and an ideal pose the background looks fine - but what would the consequences have been if didn't "brush" away the sky?

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    BPN Member Bill Dix's Avatar
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    Great flight angle. Terrific light, detail, background. Nicely captured.

  7. #7
    BPN Member Krishna Prasad kotti's Avatar
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    The image works well for me.

    I like the downward image position and the bird is nicely angled towards you.

    TFS
    https://krishnakotti.smugmug.com/

    Arise! Awake! and stop not until the goal is reached.
    -- Swami Vivekananda

  8. #8
    BPN Member Brian Sump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Burdett View Post
    Brian: Maybe I should pick your brain as to your workflow, as you have certainly come up with a beautiful image here. A striking inflight pose, lighting, HA and super smooth BG. Love the colouring on the beak and the feather detail. Is that a shadow on the lower far wing? It does draw my eye somewhat. Overall I'd be super happy to get this shot. Cheers.

    What's your feeling about the 600mm and adapter? on the R5? have you noticed any rolling shutter distortion in any images? (especially in flight)
    Paul, definitely appreciate the kind words. We're all a work in progress for sure and yeah, anything I can offer to help I will.

    The shadow is one imperfection certainly.

    The 600 and adapter? Frankly it's not noticeable aesthetically or functionally and based on the quality of keepers I get versus the D850, I'd say it works quite well. I do get a small bit of distortion at wing tips occasionally - almost like a serrated knife blade effect but only at 20 fps and usually only discernible pixel peeping.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Przybyla View Post
    Nice work, Brian. Where ever you are shooting these duck images the location is wonderful. The light, the feather detail, the background all top shelf. Thank you for sharing.
    Joe, feedback warmly received thank you.

    We have a pretty decent waterfowl migration fortunately. I frequent 3-4 different spots and glad to have found some areas to work with :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by gail bisson View Post
    This is beautiful Brian.
    Pose, IQ, water droplets on the belly all super. Perfect catchlight.
    For my taste I wouldn't mind a sliver more canvas LHS but that is purely personal taste.
    Well done!
    Gail, your comments always welcome and appreciated.

    RE the canvas, yeah I can see that. Already added a bit and maybe could've carried it out further.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Ashton View Post
    I really like this shot Brian, super exposure excellent details and an ideal pose the background looks fine - but what would the consequences have been if didn't "brush" away the sky?
    Jonathan, thank you for chiming in! Glad you like this one.

    Great question; the blue sky shone through right around the head and I found it a distracting spot so I brushed it in. Maybe could've left it but thought it was worth the simple effort. See bottom

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dix View Post
    Great flight angle. Terrific light, detail, background. Nicely captured.
    Bill, many thanks sir!

    Quote Originally Posted by Krishna Prasad kotti View Post
    The image works well for me.

    I like the downward image position and the bird is nicely angled towards you.

    TFS
    Krishna, your feedback is valued and apprecaited. Thank you!


    Name:  Gadwall-Hen-blue-sky.jpg
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    BPN Member Dorian Anderson's Avatar
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    Your cloning job to 'brush away the sky' looks great. I would have no idea how to do that, but it does feel a bit aggressive to me. But maybe I'd feel differently if I knew how to do it!

    Regardless, you've captured some really dynamic action here. Detail and droplets look really good. Angle is starting to get a bit steep, but the separation between the head/neck and wings entirely overcomes it.

    I can't quite figure your R5 files out. There's just something about them that doesn't connect the same way as your other files (Nikon and DX III?). I don't if it's the smaller pixels, the processing, or what. They have the
    detail for sure, but they seem to lack a richness I've seen elsewhere. I'm hoping this is just a learning curve thing, especially with the processing. I SOOOOOO want this body to be an answer to Sony and Nikon, but I have
    yet to see images where I'm like 'OMG I gotta have it'. Right now I don't think its anything you're doing wrong as I have had similar reactions with images from others on other boards. This is obviously a work in progress
    and we'll know more as you and others post more images.

  10. #10
    BPN Member Brian Sump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorian Anderson View Post
    Your cloning job to 'brush away the sky' looks great. I would have no idea how to do that, but it does feel a bit aggressive to me. But maybe I'd feel differently if I knew how to do it!

    Regardless, you've captured some really dynamic action here. Detail and droplets look really good. Angle is starting to get a bit steep, but the separation between the head/neck and wings entirely overcomes it.

    I can't quite figure your R5 files out. There's just something about them that doesn't connect the same way as your other files (Nikon and DX III?). I don't if it's the smaller pixels, the processing, or what. They have the
    detail for sure, but they seem to lack a richness I've seen elsewhere. I'm hoping this is just a learning curve thing, especially with the processing. I SOOOOOO want this body to be an answer to Sony and Nikon, but I have
    yet to see images where I'm like 'OMG I gotta have it'. Right now I don't think its anything you're doing wrong as I have had similar reactions with images from others on other boards. This is obviously a work in progress
    and we'll know more as you and others post more images.
    Appreciate the feedback Dorian.

    RE cloning - so I am not a purist, obviously but I don't try to let it go overboard whereas to create a totally over-processed shot, masking my photography capabilities (or lack thereof). It's actually quite simple - use the clone stamp, set soft brush @ 60% opacity, hit alt to sample another area on the bkg and gently brush in on a layer below the masked bird. So yeah, it's nice to slightly enhance images.

    RE R5 files - I have come to the realization that it's difficult to transition mentally from DSLR to mirrorless. They will continue to evolve but there is a certain texture to DSLR files (I never shot Canon before, only the D850 and earlier, the D500) and I have not seen any mirrorless body achieve that exact look. I view the mirrorless look as simply a progression/evolution in photography. As an analogy, I am sure that for the more 'seasoned' photographers, they have a hard time with Denoise software. They probably want to retain a certain grittiness to their files and I'm sure transitioning from film to digital was a challenge. Pros and cons.

    I don't know man, I wasn't shooting for that long ago so can't speak to the prior comments. What I do know is that the amount of quality frames has increased applying my same skills to the R5 and that is satisfying to me. The workflow is absolutely different (hence, the DPP processed shot here). I am learning to compare raw files in Lr and DPP, and there is a notable difference often, however little to no consistency on which file looks better in which. Jan Wegener did a recent youtube video about this and stated that for birds with brighter colors, he likes DPP better but also uses LR for more neutral frames. Then, add in Denoise and I'm finding that sometimes Topaz just ruins files (as evidence by a Bufflehead Hen I processed yesterday).

    Anyway, sorry to ramble. I am a work in progress as is my workflow. Also, here is a response to Dan I wrote in the recent Junco thread regarding his comments on my R5 files:

    Dan, fair enough. But let's give it a little time and see how I am able to progress. Here are a few thoughts:

    1. During the summer I was able to scout heavily and get birds in my well-known spots, many with audio. And thus I was able to get closer than most of my subjects lately.
    2. I have never scouted this time of year so I'm still learning areas where I can get closer to subjects. This crop is only about 2700 pixels remaining out of 8192 at full size - that's immense, yet I still feel like the IQ held up enough to share. Maybe not for some...
    3. The post processing is just flat different with mirrorless. I mean I am able to use the same work flow, but how images respond to DN, sharpening and even some of the Nik filters I use are different. I need more practice
    4. I am shooting with a 2.0x for the first time. A main issue I am dealing with is atmospheric distortion. Had this conversation with Arash multiple times and Artie lately. I don't know if high elevation factors in, but I am noticing it much more lately esp with the 2.0x at ground level. Example being the recent Gadwall hen; it was one of the only ones out of tens and tens that was tack sharp. I had many Killdeer and several other ducks on water and land that were distorted and you could see clear evidence of shimmers in the bkg and the common 'fuzzy' subject. The water and ground are still warm from summer (hence the crazy fires from lack of moisture and cooler weather). Further, this is a main reason you did not see many birds on water from me in the summer. It was horrible even with the D850 and 1.4x
    5. I do have several shots at or near MFD and I can produce 18-20 in a row, tack sharp with this set up so I know it's not gear.
    6. Panning with this set up is SO much different. The EVF takes a lot of adjusting as do understanding the zone and AF + Animal eye transfer (acquire with one and usually transfer to the other). It took me a long time to get used to keeping the sensor on the subject with the D850 this year and in some ways it's equally as challenging adjusting to this rig. I find myself improving little by little and once you get it right, the focus is much stickier
    7. Recently, the Green-winged Teal, Northern Pintail, "Merg Viper" and Loon were all substantial crops. The Cormorant, Drake Shoveler and Gadwall portrait were not. Feel free to review and see what you think.
    8. I will make an effort to post shots this week that were closer to the sensor. They many not be show worthy compositions, but you can say what you think. Maybe no mirrorless will ever be the same as a DSLR quality at the pixel level (as evidenced by some shots shared here by other members in recent weeks, IMO). However my capture rate is well worth it to me.

  11. #11
    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
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    Hi Brian .... another fine shot of yours .
    Overall it does look quite good or better said well processed .

    Regarding Dorianīs comment about the R5 files , well I would somehow agree with him .
    The problem is we can only " judge" the low res file posted here , for get an impression if we like the R5 files or not . So many variables are involved in the process from taking the image till the output .... so not ideal to make a decision to get the R5 or any other new camera , doesn't matter which brand they are .
    The decision should be me, IMHO , when you have at least a couple of raw files to work on to see the quality of the kit . As we all process the images differently .... and a web image never shows the potential quality of the equipment .

    TFS Andreas

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Wesley et. al.,

    Lots to say here. The image is a beauty despite the duck's pretty steep trajectory. Is the shadow the bird's head? Is this crop a bit boxy? If yes, and it looks like it to me, I think that it would do better at 3X2. As for folks who are sure that they can separate mirrorless images from dSLR images I'd love to put their skills to the test for money if it were possible to have everything equal ... Yeah, once you know it is an R5 image it is easy to do that. As for image clean-up (AKA Photoshop trickery to some), once you do anything you lose the right to tell someone else that this or that is too much. The slope is very slippery so beware. If you had a killer image of a swimming duck and there was a cigarette butt floating by, would you clean it? I always try to maintain the natural history of the image when doing clean-up; when I don't do that, I make sure to let everyone know. When you say that you have had Topaz ruin an image, I would love to hear details and see an example or two. BTw, I have been processing my R5 images in Capture One 20 and they look just fine.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas Liedmann View Post
    Hi Brian .... another fine shot of yours .
    Overall it does look quite good or better said well processed .

    Regarding Dorianīs comment about the R5 files , well I would somehow agree with him .
    The problem is we can only " judge" the low res file posted here , for get an impression if we like the R5 files or not . So many variables are involved in the process from taking the image till the output .... so not ideal to make a decision to get the R5 or any other new camera , doesn't matter which brand they are .
    The decision should be me, IMHO , when you have at least a couple of raw files to work on to see the quality of the kit . As we all process the images differently .... and a web image never shows the potential quality of the equipment .

    TFS Andreas
    Hi Gents,
    If you go to dpreview on internet, they have a complete gallery of R5 images. This includes a link to download raw on the info panel. They do this for all reviews. Go, download, pixel peep and process to your heart's content. It beats having to rent a rig and try for yourself.
    Peace,
    David

  14. #14
    BPN Member Brian Sump's Avatar
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    UPDATE:

    I have been playing around with DPP, which I used on this file. And in looking at the noise reduction panel I began to adjust chroma noise. After making a steep adjustment (from -2.0 chroma noise reduction to -11.0) for the sake of learning, I notice a drastic difference in noise, which I couldn't see with the naked eye. I will continue to monitor and adjust but I find this a potentially big factor and not sure why it's so prevalent with this rig so far.

    I suggest you right click, open in new tab for each and go back and forth to see the differences. You will begin to notice red splotches around the image, namely the head area and the chest where the small water droplets exist.

    To my eye, it definitely affects clarity and detail.

    With -2.0 chroma noise reduction in DPP (screenshot of the raw file)

    Name:  Chroma-noise -2.jpg
Views: 77
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    With -11.0 chroma noise reduction in DPP (screenshot of the raw file)

    Name:  Chroma-noise -11.jpg
Views: 77
Size:  585.7 KB

  15. #15
    BPN Member Dorian Anderson's Avatar
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    re: cloning
    I know how to use the rubber stamp, so I'm more curious about how you didn't let the cloning bleed into the bird. I am only able to clone things that are far
    away from the subject! No formal instruction needed - you have better things to do that teach me photoshop - but I just wanted to clarify my previous point.

    re: R5
    I see - you had Nikon and switched to the R5, right? I guess that didn't compute since so many are going from Canon to Nikon and/or Sony. A friend let me play
    with his A9ii yesterday. It was incredible. Zero comparison to my DX2. It was almost too easy.

    I think you nailed it with the word 'texture' in your reply. That's exactly what I was thinking but couldn't find the word to articulate in my previous post (doesn't
    bode well for my writing career). There's just something different about some of the files I've seen. I will say that the Anhinga David Roach posted the other day
    is really cracking. Granted it was static subject at close range, but it has the life I expect from my DX2 files. You've started your R5 career shooting really challenging
    subjects. It would be interesting to see how well it handles easier, perched subjects as a sensor baseline. Just an idea....

    re: book
    Ostensibly about my 18,000 mile circa-Lower 48 bike-birding trip in 2014, my memoir is equally an account of the decisions
    I've made in my life, specifically as they pertain to my history of drug and alcohol abuse but also encompassing my coincident,
    self-handicapped rise through high-level academia (Stanford, NYU, Harvard, etc). Think 'Eat, Pray, Love' meets 'A Walk in the
    Woods' meets 'The Big Year' meets 'Wild'. I hope to be done with it in the next few months ahead of fighting the publishing
    battle in spring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorian Anderson View Post
    re: book
    Ostensibly about my 18,000 mile circa-Lower 48 bike-birding trip in 2014, my memoir is equally an account of the decisions
    I've made in my life, specifically as they pertain to my history of drug and alcohol abuse but also encompassing my coincident,
    self-handicapped rise through high-level academia (Stanford, NYU, Harvard, etc). Think 'Eat, Pray, Love' meets 'A Walk in the
    Woods' meets 'The Big Year' meets 'Wild'. I hope to be done with it in the next few months ahead of fighting the publishing
    battle in spring.
    Hurry up, sounds like a great read...

  17. #17
    BPN Member William Dickson's Avatar
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    Looking real good here Brian....Almost too perfect ... Love it mate.

    Will

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