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Thread: You Can Tell by the Way I Walk...

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    BPN Member Brian Sump's Avatar
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    Default You Can Tell by the Way I Walk...

    Name:  20201121-Killdeer-strut-Thornton-Brian-Sump-BMS_0820-FB-SIG-USM110-touch-brush.jpg
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    "That I'm a ladies man..."

    So yeah, Killdeer. It was going in and out of shadows so I was only able to adjust SS with the given ISO on the fly; ideally would have bumped both to avoid the motion blur on foot.

    Left the feathers on the ground on purpose because I liked them :-) May not be for everyone, please lmk your thoughts.

    R5
    600mm + 1.4x
    Handheld
    ISO 800
    1/1600
    f5.6

    LR and PS, DN and Nik. Cleaned up a couple spots on the shoreline.
    Last edited by Brian Sump; 11-26-2020 at 01:18 PM.

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    Like the mid motoring along capture, Brian. Nice low point of view, and I like the feathers left on the ground. Good light and excellent feather detail. Small nit is the white fringe on outer darker edge areas.


    Geoffrey




    http://500px.com/geoffreymontagu

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    Love the low POV and the pose, including slight MB on foot. FG and BG just enough IMHO for spot on framing. Small nit, a little too much contrast blocking blacks. Love this canvas overall. TFS

    ps
    Leave the leaves, no pun intended....

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi Brian, love the raised leg, but you know what I will say as per David.... The head looks a bit 'worked on' and slightly over sharp, perhaps through Contrast and sadly I feel the FG is a bit messy, perhaps through the 'manipulation' work, but you could go cleaner. I think perhaps 1/2500 just to nail that foot, has a little motion blur, but some may like that, just my take.

    TFS
    Steve
    Post Production: Itís ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    BPN Member Jack Backs's Avatar
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    Nice low angle, like the overall look of the image but the bird appears over sharpened.

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    BPN Member Jim Crosswell's Avatar
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    I like the walking pose, FG/BG blur, composition and agree with backing down the sharpening on the head.

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    BPN Member Brian Sump's Avatar
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    Thank you everyone.

    I often produce two output versions, one with a little extra brush sharpening for FB since they updated. I chose the more aggressive one in the og post.

    Here's the other version I made with normal sharpening. Perhaps it is a bit more pleasing...

    Name:  20201121-Killdeer-strut-Thornton-Brian-Sump-BMS_0820-FORUM-SIG-USM110-touch-brush-brightupper-v2.jpg
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    Last edited by Brian Sump; 11-27-2020 at 09:44 AM.

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    I like the raised foot, the feather on the ground. I also like to low POV and the blurred FG looks fine to me. I think the repost looks a bit better.

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    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
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    Hi Brian .... RP looks a bit better .
    Nice frame and the raised foot is taking this up a notch , nice low POV and you have a nice overall color palette . Comp is well chosen ....

    Just like to raise a question .... what are you doing within the NIK Filter ?? And why are you using it ?
    Personally I think the detail here is on the boarder of being a tiny bit coarse ???!! Might be just me ... and you have a slight halo around contrast edges .

    Hope you do not mind .... my critique , being a bit picky

    TFS Andreas

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    Yep, looks better and I still love the FG and killer BG and the way it is framed.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    A fraction better Brian, but the FG is just too messy. Can you fire over the Raw, but would welcome to see another version with the changes you spoke about.
    Post Production: Itís ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    BPN Member Brian Sump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas Liedmann View Post
    Hi Brian .... RP looks a bit better .
    Nice frame and the raised foot is taking this up a notch , nice low POV and you have a nice overall color palette . Comp is well chosen ....

    Just like to raise a question .... what are you doing within the NIK Filter ?? And why are you using it ?
    Personally I think the detail here is on the boarder of being a tiny bit coarse ???!! Might be just me ... and you have a slight halo around contrast edges .

    Hope you do not mind .... my critique , being a bit picky

    TFS Andreas
    Thanks for chiming in Andreas! Appreciate the feedback.

    I use Nik filters two fold; 1. I use Color Effects Pro to extract a touch of detail (25% detail extract, 6% contrast and 6% saturation) and then 2. I use Viveza for warmth and sat if needed. Don't always, but if I feel necessary.

    Regarding detail being course, are you speaking on the repost? Specific areas? Either way, I'm sure I'm always pushing the boundaries on that for web presentation.

    Where are you seeing halos? The only possible spots I can ID are the forehead and at the black band on the chest. I actually think those are more masking related, but if you're seeing halos otherwise I'm really struggling even on the large NEC monitor.


    Quote Originally Posted by David Roach View Post
    Yep, looks better and I still love the FG and killer BG and the way it is framed.
    David thank you my man, appreciate it!


    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    A fraction better Brian, but the FG is just too messy. Can you fire over the Raw, but would welcome to see another version with the changes you spoke about.
    Steve, clearly I didn't do a a full repost. Your feedback is welcome, and yeah sure I could spend a little time blending the beige/brown areas in the FG if that's what you're referring to. I kinda liked the transition from blurry to sharp at the shoreline myself but maybe could touch that some too...

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Brian, I missed the NIK mention, that is probably the culprit, especially if it's Detail Extractor, turn that layer off and we might be getting somewhere.

    I kinda liked the transition from blurry to sharp at the shoreline myself but maybe could touch that some too...
    Your call, I think it's more the blotchy dark/sooty patches and where you may have 'cleaned up' some areas.
    Post Production: Itís ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
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    Brian - very difficult to answer your question where I do see the " coarse finer details " . I would say the whole bird looks like it .... but as always it is my personal taste and very subjective from my side .

    I bet Steve is thinking the same way .... his and my neck hairs will stand up , when reading that NIK detail extractor was in use . Just a joke .... but you might get the idea that this filter is not my favorite , for various reasons .

    I have just a simple idea how to find out , if the filter is helping or not !!! Just make two copies of the image ( TIF or PSD ) and apply at the very last step the details extractor to one of the copies . Downsize both of them the same way and look at them side by side and see how they do differ .

    Well the halo is visible .... albeit slightly . I do not think it is from masking .... IMHO it does look like a typical sharpening halo . from my experience .
    To make the halo visible .... easy ... take it into PS . Add a levels layer and drag the mid tone slider to the right , in this image you will see a small bright blue fringe around the subject . That is the HALO .... I do see , well if looking critical to your posting .

    Hope this helps

    Cheers Andreas
    Last edited by Andreas Liedmann; 11-27-2020 at 03:56 PM.

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    BPN Member Brian Sump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Brian, I missed the NIK mention, that is probably the culprit, especially if it's Detail Extractor, turn that layer off and we might be getting somewhere.



    Your call, I think it's more the blotchy dark/sooty patches and where you may have 'cleaned up' some areas.
    Oh you mean in the water line just above the shore? No, those are in the raw. Haha, you know I'm more anal than that....

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Brian, please can you change the Colour setting within your camera from sRGB to Adobe RGB.
    Post Production: Itís ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    BPN Member dankearl's Avatar
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    Why would anyone shoot in Adobe RBG?
    Just curious..
    The pose is not great. Not a great FG, why 15 posts?
    Dan Kearl

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    BPN Member Brian Sump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dankearl View Post
    Why would anyone shoot in Adobe RBG?
    Just curious..
    The pose is not great. Not a great FG, why 15 posts?
    Ok Dan, remember my response to the last comment you made in my thread? Yeah, nevermind. Reading what you wrote here, you honestly sound quite pompous and rude. If you want to offer constructive feedback, fine but please do me a favor and just leave my threads alone if you can't pose your response a little more tactfully and maybe highlight a positive or two....

    This is what having a civil discussion about processing photography looks like. Take note.

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    BPN Member dankearl's Avatar
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    Why would anyone shoot in Adobe RBG is a serious question.
    My critique was honest, there are numerous photos that are posted here that get little response by you or a lot of people.
    So this is a critique forum. The bird was past you, it is crunchy, the PP with all the gimmick is not great.
    I responded mainly to the Adobe comment.
    Last edited by dankearl; 11-27-2020 at 09:04 PM.
    Dan Kearl

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    BPN Member Brian Sump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dankearl View Post
    Why would anyone shoot in Adobe RBG is a serious question.
    My critique was honest, there are numerous photos that are posted here that get little response by you or a lot of people.
    So this is a critique forum. The bird was past you, it is crunchy, the PP with all the gimmick is not great.
    I responded mainly to the Adobe comment.
    Dan, ok. I sent Steve a raw file per his request and then he posted this. I honestly do not know why. Went and confirmed my R5 is set to sRGB, per camera settings menu 3, "Color Space".

    Regarding posts, to be perfectly honest with you I don't post on some people's threads because a) certain people will not accept feedback. Their shots are perfect in their eyes. I generally don't post on yours because early on it seemed like you gave 0 rips about what I shared. Perhaps I am wrong. While I'm not great at receiving criticism, I try to be gracious and at least have a conversation. May not not agree but I try not to let my type A personality get in the way, b) Sometimes I give the same feedback over and over but it seems like maybe people don't want to hear or don't implement changes c) sometimes I am indifferent z) sometimes I don't have time to reply to every post

    Others? No idea, maybe ask them.

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    BPN Member dankearl's Avatar
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    I am just honest here, some or a lot don't like my opinions, they are only my opinions.
    Not many people want critiques at all, this site is dying, most all are.
    You said you post on FB? Well that and Instagram is the reason no one posts on critique sites..
    Why, when you get a 1000 likes for a crappy shot?
    I will keep posting and commenting.
    Dan Kearl

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    I sent Steve a raw file per his request and then he posted this. I honestly do not know why.
    Brian, looking at the camera data from the raw sent, the camera is incorrectly set, the Colour space needs to be Adobe RGB and not sRGB.
    Last edited by Steve Kaluski; 11-28-2020 at 11:46 AM.
    Post Production: Itís ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
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    Hi all .... i do agree with Steve here in general , regarding the color space should be set to Adobe RGB because of the ability to show more colors . A wider spectrum so to speak .

    IMHO it is does not have to be in Adobe RGB , as the color space can be changed in the raw converter without harming the image . From there on it should stay in Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB ( or another wider color space) till one prepare it for web or another output format .

    Then it should be in sRGB ....

    Cheers Andreas

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    If you just set the camera space to Adobe RGB then you are all set and can forget about it, if you leave it to sRGB you are relying on memory and may forget to change it in PP. It’s simple - minimise the issues and close the door, leave it open and you are asking for trouble.
    Post Production: Itís ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
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    Correct Steve ....
    I for myself have to think about it , as I work in Pro Photo in PS ... so have to convert sooner or later .

    And if your raw converter and PS is setup correctly , it is a no brainer . As it does happen automatically or you become asked about the color profile . No asking for trouble , IMHO

    In the end it does not matter how your camera is set up in terms of color/ tone / sharpness .... all can be changed in the raw converter . And if one uses LR/C1 or any other raw converter ... you will start from scratch as the 3rd party converters cannot read the i.e, internal things you might have dialed in the camera .

    Just wanted to say it is not , that important what you do in camera ..... but makes life easier at times !!!

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    BPN Member dankearl's Avatar
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    If you set up for Adobe RGB, unless you are printing, it makes no difference.
    The minor histogram changes are not even noticeable.
    Since very few print bird photos, 99% just post to web, why bother?
    You are posting in sRGB , what is the point?
    Just asking.
    Dan Kearl

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