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    BPN Member Brian Sump's Avatar
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    Default Hen-a-see

    Name:  20201113-Northern-Shoveler-hen-wingsdown-close-Brian-Sump-BMS_4952-FORUM-SIG-SS135-touch-whitesd.jpg
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    A look at a Northern Shoveler Hen in autumn colors.

    R5
    600mm + 1.4x
    Handheld
    ISO 1250
    f8
    1/3200

    LR and PS, DN. Did brush a bit of bkg into the upper section where blue sky and a pole shown through.

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    Both the title and canvas make me thirsty for more... Killer BG for this beauty with complimentary colors. Very nice downstroke with full wing extension. Love the details and colors. The wing could use a very slight contrast boost for my monitor. You already mastered this rig and are making full use of the much improved (for Canon) AF. TFS

    ps
    Think I'll be ordering R6 soon...

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    BPN Member Krishna Prasad kotti's Avatar
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    Very nice wing position and clean background colors.

    TFS
    https://krishnakotti.smugmug.com/

    Arise! Awake! and stop not until the goal is reached.
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    Lifetime Member Mike Poole's Avatar
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    Not really sure I can fault any part of this frame, great light perfect pose, great BG.

    Another one to move me closer to Canon mirrorless!

    Mike

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Very nice Brian, glad you had the light for the SS, it might bite you over here with the light.
    Post Production: Itís ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    I have a tendency to like perfect images. This one is a stunner. What country was it taken in???

    Great meeting you.

    with love, a
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Another one to move me closer to Canon mirrorless!
    Mike, if you can 'test drive the R5 & 6' I would strongly suggest you do so, but as I said to Will, you must look at the Pros & Cons to both and perhaps more importantly which camera suits YOUR needs and the light conditions you may find yourself shooting in.
    Post Production: Itís ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Lifetime Member Mike Poole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Mike, if you can 'test drive the R5 & 6' I would strongly suggest you do so, but as I said to Will, you must look at the Pros & Cons to both and perhaps more importantly which camera suits YOUR needs and the light conditions you may find yourself shooting in.
    Steve, I was all set to break the bank and go Sony but the more I see shots like this I think about going to Canon.

    Brian has given me some good first hand thoughts but away from Brian and one other bloke I know I'm struggling to find unbiased quality flight opinions regarding the AF. I've seen enough Sony shots to have more confidence in that system but I've always been drawn to canon.

    If I stick with the v2 600mmf4 I can maybe get both bodies over the next few months.

    Seeing shots like this gives me real hope about the canon system

    Mike

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Mike if it’s that close, then you seriously need to test them yourself before taking the plunge. Yes, read & watch as much as you can, but there is nothing to beat hands on. Are you also thinking for when you dive too, as that is far harder to make a choice on.
    Post Production: Itís ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Lifetime Member Mike Poole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Mike if itís that close, then you seriously need to test them yourself before taking the plunge. Yes, read & watch as much as you can, but there is nothing to beat hands on. Are you also thinking for when you dive too, as that is far harder to make a choice on.
    Not for diving, my d500 setup is superb for that and underwater is very different to topside regarding processing

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

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    BPN Member Brian Sump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Roach View Post
    Both the title and canvas make me thirsty for more... Killer BG for this beauty with complimentary colors. Very nice downstroke with full wing extension. Love the details and colors. The wing could use a very slight contrast boost for my monitor. You already mastered this rig and are making full use of the much improved (for Canon) AF. TFS

    ps
    Think I'll be ordering R6 soon...
    Ha, well I suppose a toast will be in order soon then ;-) Thanks for the kind words!


    Quote Originally Posted by Krishna Prasad kotti View Post
    Very nice wing position and clean background colors.

    TFS
    Thanks for the encouraging comments Krishna!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Poole View Post
    Not really sure I can fault any part of this frame, great light perfect pose, great BG.

    Another one to move me closer to Canon mirrorless!

    Mike
    Mike, glad you like it and thank you. It's a learning curve but I know you can get some sweet frames with this rig... most likely even with the 600 ii

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Very nice Brian, glad you had the light for the SS, it might bite you over here with the light.
    Steve, appreciate the kind words. Yes Colorado has over 300 days of sunshine each year

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    I have a tendency to like perfect images. This one is a stunner. What country was it taken in???

    Great meeting you.

    with love, a
    Artie, such strong but gracious words. Thanks a million and had a blast with ya as well!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Poole View Post
    Steve, I was all set to break the bank and go Sony but the more I see shots like this I think about going to Canon.

    Brian has given me some good first hand thoughts but away from Brian and one other bloke I know I'm struggling to find unbiased quality flight opinions regarding the AF. I've seen enough Sony shots to have more confidence in that system but I've always been drawn to canon.

    If I stick with the v2 600mmf4 I can maybe get both bodies over the next few months.

    Seeing shots like this gives me real hope about the canon system

    Mike

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Hey Mike,

    A word of caution :). Canon folks are so happy to have a camera that actually focuses on a bird in flight that others overlook additional SONY advantages. Those would include the weight and size of the 2X TC as Mr. Sump found out on Thursday In addition, AF with SONY with the 600/2X is far superior to the same combo with the 600 III/2X III/R5 (plus the weight and inconvenience of the adapter). Last item, if you read the fine print the eye-stuff with the R5 is not as great as many claim :). My two cents.

    with love, artie
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










  15. #13
    BPN Member Brian Sump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Hey Mike,

    A word of caution :). Canon folks are so happy to have a camera that actually focuses on a bird in flight that others overlook additional SONY advantages. Those would include the weight and size of the 2X TC as Mr. Sump found out on Thursday In addition, AF with SONY with the 600/2X is far superior to the same combo with the 600 III/2X III/R5 (plus the weight and inconvenience of the adapter). Last item, if you read the fine print the eye-stuff with the R5 is not as great as many claim :). My two cents.

    with love, artie
    Artie, in all fairness once I took the battery pack out of the R5 I thought the weight difference versus the a9 without battery pack was hard to discern.

    I personally love the animal eye detection. As far a the fine print, I think most of the better R5 bif shooters are still navigating all the setting options. All the Case parameters, zone, AF, and all the servo settings. However, I can say with the 2x you better have your panning skills down and if you stay on the bird the single AF point stays very close to the eye and head. When I [briefly] tested the a9 zone AF I actually prefer the R5 AF tracking. It would take a lot more shots for me to give a thorough comparison though. But for me, it's fantastic and having 45mp I find super beneficial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Hey Mike,

    A word of caution :). Canon folks are so happy to have a camera that actually focuses on a bird in flight that others overlook additional SONY advantages. Those would include the weight and size of the 2X TC as Mr. Sump found out on Thursday In addition, AF with SONY with the 600/2X is far superior to the same combo with the 600 III/2X III/R5 (plus the weight and inconvenience of the adapter). Last item, if you read the fine print the eye-stuff with the R5 is not as great as many claim :). My two cents.

    with love, artie
    Thoughts from a non expert; First, no one, not even top experts like folks here, can evaluate these systems without at least a month with frequent field trials to learn optimal setting and their advantages/disadvantages. An example; I have been following Mark Smith for a few years now. Don't know if he's famous and don't care. His flight images are amazing. When I first found him. he was using the best BIF system on the planet (all Nikons top cameras d500,850 and D?(whichever was top pro at the time). After he kept hearing about the A9 a few years back, he acquired one for review and and was blown away by AF. This was before fast, long native glass was available. He added the Sony to his bag. However, it was clear, he still posted way more Nikon images. Then the use of the A9 glass began picking up in terms of percentages of posts. Even before the glass was available. Then , when native 200-600 and 600 came out. Almost no more Nikon DSLR images. he recently tried the R5, came back with his usual excellent images (in one field trip) and stated in his impressions video there were some quirks that he needed to investigate further, But, he stated, he's adding it to his bag. I'm not saying he will settle on Canon, just that we humans have natural tendency to love what we know. In fact, as expert as he is, he stated the Canon 100-500 (what he used for impressions) is not as sharp as the Sony 500. Duh, and apples to oranges much... There is another Florida BIF guy, definitely not famous, who has been using Sony for the last few years but was a Canon shooter before that. Forget his review(whistling wings photography on IG(actually meant youtube)), he posts RAW and JPG images. He has both the RF100-500 and the EF 600mm big gun from previous Canon days. He has Barred owl, ducks(flying through reeds) and a pigeon coming straight (tell me what would be more challenging) at him in his posted images for the RF 100-500.

    My point, these systems, Sony and Canon, will not fail you. And Nikon will catch up if they survive in a shrinking market. As I read Artie's words of caution I thought;
    24 vs 45mpx is perhaps Apples to Oranges.
    so, you expected the BIF Eye AF to be perfect right at first release. FW will continually improve. How is Sony's BIF Eye AF in comparison? Comparing native, designed for mirrorless glass to DSLR designed glass on a mirrorless system is also a little apples to oranges. Less than a year to Canons mirrorless designed big guns availability. You can't go wrong with either (Yes, solely based on other's knowledge and their actual images). And as Artie always said in the days when Nikon and Canon were neck and neck (I had a 10D and 1D Mk II N, dating myself), It's not the gear, it's the 4 inches between the the ears right behind it. Sorry, if I don't remember the actual quote and if I didn't get the intent correct). We are back to those days as mirrorless begins maturing. Thanks, for sure, to Sony for moving us there with pace...
    Last edited by David Roach; 11-22-2020 at 04:30 AM.

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    Lifetime Member Mike Poole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Hey Mike,

    A word of caution :). Canon folks are so happy to have a camera that actually focuses on a bird in flight that others overlook additional SONY advantages. Those would include the weight and size of the 2X TC as Mr. Sump found out on Thursday In addition, AF with SONY with the 600/2X is far superior to the same combo with the 600 III/2X III/R5 (plus the weight and inconvenience of the adapter). Last item, if you read the fine print the eye-stuff with the R5 is not as great as many claim :). My two cents.



    with love, artie
    Cheers for chiming in Artie, pity the trip has been cut short, please say hi to Anita for me!

    I was all set to break the bank and just go down the Sony route. I've seen enough shots to know it works (barring operator error of course). It is a little outside my price range but if anything good has come from Covid, then it has meant a big increase in the available overtime at work!

    Seeing shots like the above frame has made me stop in my tracks. Canon will work put cheaper due to the 2nd hand lens market, but as an observer I KNOW Sony works, whereas I WANT Canon to be working if that makes sense.

    Maybe the sensible thing is to wait a month or 2, see if the Canon R5 shooters can produce the goods consistently like the Sony shooters can

    Quote Originally Posted by David Roach View Post
    Thoughts from a non expert; First, no one, not even top experts like folks here, can evaluate these systems without at least a month with frequent field trials to learn optimal setting and their advantages/disadvantages. An example; I have been following Mark Smith for a few years now. Don't know if he's famous and don't care. His flight images are amazing. When I first found him. he was using the best BIF system on the planet (all Nikons top cameras d500,850 and D?(whichever was top pro at the time). After he kept hearing about the A9 a few years back, he acquired one for review and and was blown away by AF. This was before fast, long native glass was available. He added the Sony to his bag. However, it was clear, he still posted way more Nikon images. Then the use of the A9 glass began picking up in terms of percentages of posts. Even before the glass was available. Then , when native 200-600 and 600 came out. Almost no more Nikon DSLR images. he recently tried the R5, came back with his usual excellent images (in one field trip) and stated in his impressions video there were some quirks that he needed to investigate further, But, he stated, he's adding it to his bag. I'm not saying he will settle on Canon, just that we humans have natural tendency to love what we know. In fact, as expert as he is, he stated the Canon 100-500 (what he used for impressions) is not as sharp as the Sony 500. Duh, and apples to oranges much... There is another Florida BIF guy, definitely not famous, who has been using Sony for the last few years but was a Canon shooter before that. Forget his review(whistling wings photography on IG), he posts RAW and JPG images. He has both the RF100-500 and the EF 600mm big gun from previous Canon days. He has Barred owl, ducks(flying through reeds) and a pigeon coming straight (tell me what would be more challenging) at him in his posted images for the RF 100-500.

    My point, these systems, Sony and Canon, will not fail you. And Nikon will catch up if they survive in a shrinking market. As I read Artie's words of caution I thought;
    24 vs 45mpx is perhaps Apples to Oranges.
    so, you expected the BIF Eye AF to be perfect right at first release. FW will continually improve. How is Sony's BIF Eye AF in comparison? Comparing native, designed for mirrorless glass to DSLR designed glass on a mirrorless system is also a little apples to oranges. Less than a year to Canons mirrorless designed big guns availability. You can't go wrong with either (Yes, solely based on other's knowledge and their actual images). And as Artie always said in the days when Nikon and Canon were neck and neck (I had a 10D and 1D Mk II N, dating myself), It's not the gear, it's the 4 inches between the the ears right behind it. Sorry, if I don't remember the actual quote and if I didn't get the intent correct). We are back to those days as mirrorless begins maturing. Thanks, for sure to Sony for moving us there with pace...
    Interesting thoughts David, cheers

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Sump View Post
    Artie, in all fairness once I took the battery pack out of the R5 I thought the weight difference versus the a9 without battery pack was hard to discern.

    I personally love the animal eye detection. As far a the fine print, I think most of the better R5 bif shooters are still navigating all the setting options. All the Case parameters, zone, AF, and all the servo settings. However, I can say with the 2x you better have your panning skills down and if you stay on the bird the single AF point stays very close to the eye and head. When I [briefly] tested the a9 zone AF I actually prefer the R5 AF tracking. It would take a lot more shots for me to give a thorough comparison though. But for me, it's fantastic and having 45mp I find super beneficial.
    Good points Brian, a real head scratcher this one. Apologies for the thread derail, maybe a mod can move the posts if you want to their own thread, and folk can just concentrate on the shot

    Mike

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    Avian Moderator gail bisson's Avatar
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    Superb flight shot! killer BG and wing position.
    I love the light,
    Gail

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    Killer image! Always nice to give the lady ducks some lens time! Background is money. I'd love to see a wee bit more of the far wing to give the image a bit more depth, but my favorite NOSH shot I've taken is a male in this exact same position, with the far wing totally hidden. Can't beat this lighting though!

  20. #18
    BPN Member Brian Sump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gail bisson View Post
    Superb flight shot! killer BG and wing position.
    I love the light,
    Gail
    Very much appreciated Gail!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorian Anderson View Post
    Killer image! Always nice to give the lady ducks some lens time! Background is money. I'd love to see a wee bit more of the far wing to give the image a bit more depth, but my favorite NOSH shot I've taken is a male in this exact same position, with the far wing totally hidden. Can't beat this lighting though!
    Ha, great feedback Dorian. Yeah, I'm an equal opportunity photographer

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    Hi Brian .... me as non avian specialist , would love to have this kinda shot in my archive !!!
    Simply beautiful !!!

    TFS Andreas

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    The earth tones in the background match the shoveler very well. Spot on all around.

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