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Thread: Kestrel closeup

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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Default Kestrel closeup

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    Another frame of the female kestrel.


    shot with A9 II 600 GM + 2X (1200mm) ISO-1250 f/8 at 1/4000 sec hand held. processed with C1P. almost full frame

    hope you like it
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    Avian Moderator Randy Stout's Avatar
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    Arash:

    Good angle in the frame, exposure, soft bg, pose.

    Kudos to you for being able to acquire the bird shooting at 1200mm hand held. Had it come off a perch so that you had some sense of its flight path?

    Well done

    Cheers

    Randy
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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Superb image, bird, and pose. and BKGR. What AF pattern are you using for flight?

    With love, aritie
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    Yup, I second Randy's and Artie's comments. Wonderful image Arie, thank you for sharing.
    Joe Przybyla

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    Wow, Arash, your images are always superb, but the last few have gone over the top with feather detail. The light is sweet perfection as is the BG, pose, colors and details. TFS

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    BPN Member dankearl's Avatar
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    Best one yet... The wing is awesome..
    Dan Kearl

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    BPN Member Dorian Anderson's Avatar
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    Strong frame, for sure. Lighting and action are perfect. Love the eye contact. I do think your last harrier frame was a wee bit sharper, especially around the eye. But that was about the sharpest flight shot I've ever seen.

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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorian Anderson View Post
    Strong frame, for sure. Lighting and action are perfect. Love the eye contact. I do think your last harrier frame was a wee bit sharper, especially around the eye. But that was about the sharpest flight shot I've ever seen.
    thanks but this is not a harrier it's a kestrel... this is the sharpest IF kestrel frame I have seen myself at least on my monitor so no idea what you are talking about :)

    best
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 11-17-2020 at 02:57 AM.
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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Superb image, bird, and pose. and BKGR. What AF pattern are you using for flight?

    With love, aritie
    Hey Artie, I used zone tracking AF for this one

    best
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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Stout View Post
    Arash:

    Good angle in the frame, exposure, soft bg, pose.

    Kudos to you for being able to acquire the bird shooting at 1200mm hand held. Had it come off a perch so that you had some sense of its flight path?

    Well done

    Cheers

    Randy
    Hi Randy, it was just a random pass. This is a different bird than the one which perches (and refuses to fly!)

    I hate to say this but this kind of shot is actually not that hard to get with the Sony A9 II. the challenge is mostly being able to initially find the kestrel in the frame at such narrow FOV. I have become used to spotting these from afar when they are easier to find in the frame and all I have to do is to pan and follow with the bird, the Sony AF latches on and holds all the way to MFD. because there is no blackout and the lens is light it's relatively easy to track them and get hundreds of shots in one pass. One thing that's amazing is how many of the frames have non ideal or flat wing positions, bad head angle etc. so even at 20 fps and out of a few hundred sometimes there are only a few keepers.

    With the DSLR AF this kind of shot was pretty much pure luck and a waste of time, I can't imagine how good the next generation of Sony cameras will be! flight photography pretty much becoming obsolete and trivial
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    Avian Moderator Randy Stout's Avatar
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    Thanks for your input Arash. I suspect experience and skill has a whee bit to do with it as well.

    Cheers

    Randy
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    BPN Member Dorian Anderson's Avatar
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    i know this is a kestrel. I was comparing it to your last harrier shot, as stated. I'm not saying this shot isn't sharp. It's like 9.9/10. I thought that last harrier shot was like 11/10 - it was that good. No need to be so defensive....

    Quote Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi View Post
    thanks but this is not a harrier it's a kestrel... this is the sharpest IF kestrel frame I have seen myself at least on my monitor so no idea what you are talking about :)

    best

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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorian Anderson View Post
    i know this is a kestrel. I was comparing it to your last harrier shot, as stated. I'm not saying this shot isn't sharp. It's like 9.9/10. I thought that last harrier shot was like 11/10 - it was that good. No need to be so defensive....
    not defensive, it's just a photo but what you say makes no sense to me, as an engineer I cannot compare an apple to an orange and put numbers on each there is nothing similar between these two birds and frames.
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 11-17-2020 at 12:02 PM.
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    BPN Member Dorian Anderson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi View Post
    not defensive, it's just a photo but what you say makes no sense to me, as an engineer I cannot compare an apple to an orange and put numbers on each there is nothing similar between these two birds and frames.
    So, basically, you're saying we can't compare the quality of two images because they're different species? I guess that means my shot of this Murphy's Petrel isn't any better or worse than my Dunlin! I understand there isn't a standard metric (joules, feet, newtons, etc) to measure sharpness between photos, but our eyes can tell us one photo is sharper than another. Technical considerations like sharpness are fairly objective; that's why criticism on that front is particularly helpful. The aesthetic aspect is more difficult because its more subjective.

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    I don’t get your point Dorian. There is nothing objective in comparing sharpness of the shots I posted without having the raw to look at full size , it depends on your monitor and other factors too like your eye sight and of of course the appearance of feathers depends on the species too.

    I don’t know what your OOF frame is supposed to prove other than it is OOF.
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 11-17-2020 at 03:17 PM.
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    BPN Member Dorian Anderson's Avatar
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    I understand your point about examining the RAW files, but we can't post those; the jpegs are the best proxy we have.
    Put two jpegs side-by-side and I'm willing to bet you and I can agree on which one is sharper in almost every case.

    The point is that some of your shots are more-perfect than others. Accept the criticism, however minor, on the less-perfect
    of the bunch without reflexively telling people, "you don't know what you're talking about." It's either that or "your monitor
    sucks," in every instance. No one is saying you aren't a phenomenal photographer, probably the best on this board and
    one of the best pure flight photographers anywhere on Earth. But that's all the more reason to be judicious in your exchanges.
    Your results are beyond professional; let your conduct be as well.





    Quote Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi View Post
    I donít get your point Dorian. There is nothing objective in comparing sharpness of the shots I posted without having the raw to look at full size , it depends on your monitor and other factors too like your eye sight and of of course the appearance of feathers depends on the species too.

    I donít know what your OOF frame is supposed to prove other than it is OOF.

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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorian Anderson View Post
    I understand your point about examining the RAW files, but we can't post those; the jpegs are the best proxy we have.
    Put two jpegs side-by-side and I'm willing to bet you and I can agree on which one is sharper in almost every case.

    The point is that some of your shots are more-perfect than others. Accept the criticism, however minor, on the less-perfect
    of the bunch without reflexively telling people, "you don't know what you're talking about." It's either that or "your monitor
    sucks," in every instance. No one is saying you aren't a phenomenal photographer, probably the best on this board and
    one of the best pure flight photographers anywhere on Earth. But that's all the more reason to be judicious in your exchanges.
    Your results are beyond professional; let your conduct be as well.

    Hi Dorian,

    I find your last comments unprofessional, you are in no position to give me or others ethics' or conduct lessons. This forum is not the place to do it. We are here to critique photographs nothing more. keep everything else out of it. whether the poster accepts your critique or not it's up to them not to you.

    you said you don't find the image as sharp as some other and I pointed out why I think your comment was invalid in this particular case. No hard feelings but I stand by the facts.

    Without having the RAW and perhaps even a proper monitor to look at it closely (yes it matters and is measurable whether you like it or not), you are comparing images of two completley different birds that have nothing in common and telling me which one is sharper ? then you post a total OOF shot to compare ? I cannot see how that is a critique of this photograph or adds anything educational, no one else mentioned it either. I feel it is just to pick an argument.

    I don't think I agree with your processing either they often look over sharpened to me and the colors are off too having shot in the same spot but I don't bring these up because it's moot since we have different monitors and eyes. I try to focus on the aspects that are more obvious to everyone such as pose etc. to provide a meaningful critique.
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 11-17-2020 at 10:17 PM.
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    BPN Member Dorian Anderson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi View Post
    Hi Dorian,

    I find your last comments unprofessional, you are in no position to give me or others ethics' or conduct lessons. This forum is not the place to do it. We are here to critique photographs nothing more. keep everything else out of it. whether the poster accepts your critique or not it's up to them not to you.

    you said you don't find the image as sharp as some other and I pointed out why I think your comment was invalid in this particular case. No hard feelings but I stand by the facts.

    Without having the RAW and perhaps even a proper monitor to look at it closely (yes it matters and is measurable whether you like it or not), you are comparing images of two completley different birds that have nothing in common and telling me which one is sharper ? then you post a total OOF shot to compare ? I cannot see how that is a critique of this photograph or adds anything educational, no one else mentioned it either. I feel it is just to pick an argument.

    I don't think I agree with your processing either they often look over sharpened to me and the colors are off too having shot in the same spot but I don't bring these up because it's moot since we have different monitors and eyes. I try to focus on the aspects that are more obvious to everyone such as pose etc. to provide a meaningful critique.
    You are correct; no poster is obligated to accept offered suggestions. I never said you or anyone else was. I only ask that people receive and address criticisms respectfully.

    You are right, there is no objective way to measure the absolute difference between two very sharp shots. It is possible, however, to say two shots aren't similarly sharp.
    I don't need a scale to know that an elephant weights more than a dog, for example. A simple lift test reveals the difference

    I fully admit I am awful at processing photos, and I enjoy learning from more experienced photographers like you. It's just really sad that my original - and very minor -
    critique of one of your photos motivated you to trash my entire portfolio. Hope it feels good!

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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorian Anderson View Post
    You are correct; no poster is obligated to accept offered suggestions. I never said you or anyone else was. I only ask that people receive and address criticisms respectfully.

    You are right, there is no objective way to measure the absolute difference between two very sharp shots. It is possible, however, to say two shots aren't similarly sharp.
    I don't need a scale to know that an elephant weights more than a dog, for example. A simple lift test reveals the difference

    I fully admit I am awful at processing photos, and I enjoy learning from more experienced photographers like you. It's just really sad that my original - and very minor -
    critique of one of your photos motivated you to trash my entire portfolio. Hope it feels good!
    Well, your weight analogy is a fallacy. of course you don't need the RAW to tell your example above is OOF or when something is grossly off but when it comes down to minute differences you can't make a call without seeing the RAW and taking into account the type of display the image was optimized for, the type of species yada yada . data and facts trump gut feelings and without having the data insisting on gut feelings gets you nowhere (reminds me of the state of the country). in this case I have the data and you don't. you can assume that I am lying if you wish. make no mistake I welcome critique but I also welcome a logical discussion that follows it.

    I did not trash your portfolio and why would that make me feel good? What kind of enjoyment do you think I get from it ? I think you have a good eye for light, form and pose and get very good frames yourself especially the low angles. I am not sure if I would process the files the same way. Why is that trashing ? As I said some comes down to personal preference, perception of color, the attention to details, the monitor we are viewing the images on and the amount of time you are willing to spend on processing, the sw you are willing to use etc etc.




    have a good night
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 11-18-2020 at 01:14 AM.
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    BPN Member dankearl's Avatar
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    I hope that both of you keep posting... There are not many left here, I only keep on because the best bird photographers
    like both of you still post here.
    Dan Kearl

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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dankearl View Post
    I hope that both of you keep posting... There are not many left here, I only keep on because the best bird photographers
    like both of you still post here.
    we will Dan

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