Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: In the rain

  1. #1
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    143
    Threads
    25
    Thank You Posts

    Default In the rain

    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    I love to shoot in the rain-the birds, not me. This is a Scarlet-rumped Tanager, shot in Costa Rica. The lodge had a flower/fruit garden that attracted many birds. About 20' behind the garden was a wall covered with artificial grass- hence the smooth green background. My question concerns the beak of this bird. It is naturally very white, almost silver. I have attempted to bring down the brightness but anything further merely makes it "muddy" appearing. Too distracting?? Shot with Canon 5D4, 500 mm, f/4, 1/200th SS, ISO 5000. -2/3 stop EC in an attempt to minimize blowing out the red, but not enough to avoid blowing out the beak.

  2. Thanks Volkan Akgul thanked for this post
  3. #2
    BPN Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Sunrise, Fl
    Posts
    3,241
    Threads
    525
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Love the EXP, HA, and perch. The rump could be toned down just a little more. Love this canvas and would also make a great vertical with more on bottom.

    ps
    Thanks for explaining that wonderful BG and the rain drops just lift the whole image...

  4. #3
    Lifetime Member gail bisson's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    12,731
    Threads
    910
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    This is such a great bird to see in real life.
    The image is way too saturated and has a strong magenta cast.
    You have a nice pose and a good perch.
    Comp wise I would take some canvas off the LHS and add to the bottom to show more of the perch - Say a 5 x 7 crop.
    The green in the BG is rather overwhelming and I would definitely desaturate the greens.
    Finally, that single streak of rain drop in RLC doesn't add much and I would clone it out.
    The beak is blown out and the only way to fix that would be to clone in or brush in some color but the beak is a minor issue in this image.
    I think this image has potential and a complete redo in PP could make this very nice.
    Hope this lengthy critique doesn't put you off!
    Gail

  5. #4
    BPN Member Robert Kimbrell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Ft. Myers Fl.
    Posts
    1,135
    Threads
    99
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Hey James, This image has so much potential. I like the exposure of the head and the way it highlights the moisture. An amazing bird. The beak does look blown as does the reds in the tail feathers. I have to echo Gail's thoughts on the saturation.
    Robert Kimbrell



  6. #5
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    143
    Threads
    25
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Thanks to everyone for looking and your comments. I will make another attempt to rework the shot. I am having problems with reducing the saturation of the red; when I attempt to use an adjustment layer (either Hue/Saturation or Vibrance) it just makes the red look muddy. Any thoughts on how I might best do this? This species has been a problem for me for years-trying to get the blacks detailed without blowing the reds. In real life, the red almost glows.

  7. #6
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    143
    Threads
    25
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Not even a little bit am I "put off". I truly want to learn how to improve my shots both in PP and in the field. For validation, I just put shots in Facebook; most people there just like or not the photo without offering much in the way of useful criticisms.

    Quote Originally Posted by gail bisson View Post
    This is such a great bird to see in real life.
    The image is way too saturated and has a strong magenta cast.
    You have a nice pose and a good perch.
    Comp wise I would take some canvas off the LHS and add to the bottom to show more of the perch - Say a 5 x 7 crop.
    The green in the BG is rather overwhelming and I would definitely desaturate the greens.
    Finally, that single streak of rain drop in RLC doesn't add much and I would clone it out.
    The beak is blown out and the only way to fix that would be to clone in or brush in some color but the beak is a minor issue in this image.
    I think this image has potential and a complete redo in PP could make this very nice.
    Hope this lengthy critique doesn't put you off!
    Gail

  8. #7
    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Somewhere in the world
    Posts
    20,688
    Threads
    1,296
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    Hi James, the first issue is that it has not got an sRGB embedded profile, you need to convert your file to sRGB for all web or PI images.

    Colour had a massive bias and this is not great, but I think goes in the right direction, removing the blue cast helps.

    5D4 best around ISO3200, albeit I have shot above 6400 with excellent results, but not advisable.

    If you want to get rain drops f/5.6 and shoot below 1/200 depending on what you want to show in terms of rain.

    TFS
    }Steve
    Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

  9. #8
    Super Moderator Daniel Cadieux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    26,311
    Threads
    3,979
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    About those reds: It must be the combination of the words "scarlet" and "tanager" in its name, as the Scarlet Tanagers up here drive me absolutely bonkers trying to get the reds right!! Adding some cyans in "Selective Color" helps a bit, and also lowering the saturation of the red channel (but not too much!).

    Steve's repost has much better white-balance, removing that blue cast.

    Nice perch and good head angle. I wish for more rain drops, or none at all. Thanks for sharing this beautiful bird!

  10. #9
    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Somewhere in the world
    Posts
    20,688
    Threads
    1,296
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    I truly want to learn how to improve my shots both in PP and in the field.
    Hi James, sorry for the initial earlier short reply, it was more 'on the hoof', but your comment shows great mentality and a very positive attitude which I'm sure will put you where you need to be!

    Just a couple of points in basic 'House keeping' which hopefully may help, or I may be covering previous points in earlier postings.

    Camera
    - Are you shooting Raw in camera, and is the Colour setting set to Adobe RGB?
    - Is the camera set to Servo AI?
    - Do you shoot Manual & ETTR (Expose to the right) this is absolutely key to getting an almost perfect Exposure
    - Can you read a Histogram on the back of your camera, this to me is your best friend
    - Do you use 'back button focus?
    - Do you have Highlights enabled in camera?

    PP
    - Do you calibrate your monitor, is it Desktop or laptop? If so, do you calibrate when you feel like it, or is it per month/when the monitor tells you, as this needs to be done at least once a month
    - All PP work needs to be done in Adobe RGB or PRO RGB, but the file then needs to be then saved with all layers in tact, (do not flatten) this is you Master file. Once finished you then cropped for output, sharpen and convert to sRGB and then Save AS, not save!!!

    when I attempt to use an adjustment layer (either Hue/Saturation or Vibrance) it just makes the red look muddy.
    James it's knowing which tool to use, if you are using it in the Raw converter you are doing 'GLOBAL' changes which will affect all colours. Yes you can make changes, however you may find that changing the Red say, may require changes to (at the same time) other colours like yellow, or purple in this case. Ramping up say the Red in Saturation can 'flood' the area masking detail, It's a case of 'Cause & Effect', what you change in one part affects another and so perhaps using PS is better (Colour balance, Selective Colour as dan mentioned, saturation, Brightness & Contrast), rather than within the Raw converter? Unless you have a good eye with colour, adjusting the Hue can/maybe a bit of a Bear trap, but no harm in exploring.

    I feel your main issue and you are not along here, is that you need to achieve a better WB when you first start and if you are using LR then it 'drills down' in a logical/systematic matter ie WB first then Exposure... If you are using LR, avoid Adobe Colour like the plague, in the WB setting, it's absolute pants along with the various option filters, keep to Adobe Standard. Likewise using Black and especially Contrast within LR with a light hand, ramping these two seems the fashion and is so wrong.

    Hope this may help.

    Steve
    Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

  11. #10
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    143
    Threads
    25
    Thank You Posts

    Default Thank you so much for your time

    I do appreciate your comments. I am fairly good (advanced beginner) in getting my shots in camera. Most of your suggestions I do currently employ. Oh yes, I do miss exposure more frequently than I would like to admit, but at least I have a clue as to why I missed it.
    My PP skills are not what I would like them to be. I have advanced beyond the "DPP and then save" mode, now using LR and PS, but there are some things-you mention WB and color management skills, that need a lot of work. Thank you for the effort on my picture. I do certainly see the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Hi James, sorry for the initial earlier short reply, it was more 'on the hoof', but your comment shows great mentality and a very positive attitude which I'm sure will put you where you need to be!

    Just a couple of points in basic 'House keeping' which hopefully may help, or I may be covering previous points in earlier postings.

    Camera
    - Are you shooting Raw in camera, and is the Colour setting set to Adobe RGB?
    - Is the camera set to Servo AI?
    - Do you shoot Manual & ETTR (Expose to the right) this is absolutely key to getting an almost perfect Exposure
    - Can you read a Histogram on the back of your camera, this to me is your best friend
    - Do you use 'back button focus?
    - Do you have Highlights enabled in camera?

    PP
    - Do you calibrate your monitor, is it Desktop or laptop? If so, do you calibrate when you feel like it, or is it per month/when the monitor tells you, as this needs to be done at least once a month
    - All PP work needs to be done in Adobe RGB or PRO RGB, but the file then needs to be then saved with all layers in tact, (do not flatten) this is you Master file. Once finished you then cropped for output, sharpen and convert to sRGB and then Save AS, not save!!!



    James it's knowing which tool to use, if you are using it in the Raw converter you are doing 'GLOBAL' changes which will affect all colours. Yes you can make changes, however you may find that changing the Red say, may require changes to (at the same time) other colours like yellow, or purple in this case. Ramping up say the Red in Saturation can 'flood' the area masking detail, It's a case of 'Cause & Effect', what you change in one part affects another and so perhaps using PS is better (Colour balance, Selective Colour as dan mentioned, saturation, Brightness & Contrast), rather than within the Raw converter? Unless you have a good eye with colour, adjusting the Hue can/maybe a bit of a Bear trap, but no harm in exploring.

    I feel your main issue and you are not along here, is that you need to achieve a better WB when you first start and if you are using LR then it 'drills down' in a logical/systematic matter ie WB first then Exposure... If you are using LR, avoid Adobe Colour like the plague, in the WB setting, it's absolute pants along with the various option filters, keep to Adobe Standard. Likewise using Black and especially Contrast within LR with a light hand, ramping these two seems the fashion and is so wrong.

    Hope this may help.

    Steve

  12. #11
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    143
    Threads
    25
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Reds and yellows are my nemesis. I have been fortunate to shoot a lot of birds in the subtropics where red and yellow are so common in the birds. Often almost a neon type of appearance in the colors of some of the birds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Cadieux View Post
    About those reds: It must be the combination of the words "scarlet" and "tanager" in its name, as the Scarlet Tanagers up here drive me absolutely bonkers trying to get the reds right!! Adding some cyans in "Selective Color" helps a bit, and also lowering the saturation of the red channel (but not too much!).

    Steve's repost has much better white-balance, removing that blue cast.

    Nice perch and good head angle. I wish for more rain drops, or none at all. Thanks for sharing this beautiful bird!

  13. #12
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    143
    Threads
    25
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    A question about Saving. I have been guilty of saving over my master files, so my normal work flow is saving the fully layered shot as my master, then flattening it and saving the flattened copy. I then only use the flattened copy when cropping, etc, to convert to JPEG for web, etc. Any problem (other than storage space) with that approach?

    PP
    - Do you calibrate your monitor, is it Desktop or laptop? If so, do you calibrate when you feel like it, or is it per month/when the monitor tells you, as this needs to be done at least once a month
    - All PP work needs to be done in Adobe RGB or PRO RGB, but the file then needs to be then saved with all layers in tact, (do not flatten) this is you Master file. Once finished you then cropped for output, sharpen and convert to sRGB and then Save AS, not save!!!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Web Analytics