Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: DOF issues on larger bird

  1. #1
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    143
    Threads
    25
    Thank You Posts

    Default DOF issues on larger bird

    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    Daniel posted a flycatcher previously where there was DOF issue because of the size of bird, proximity of bird and lens used. This is a similar situation that I encounter frequently; this may be my own ineptitude concerning lens and/or camera selection-I have a tendency to use too much lens.
    This bird was shot in a rehabilitation center in Sylvan Heights NC. Many of the birds there are semi free roaming with a 30-40 feet high net overhead enclosing the birds. Space is limited as patrons are not to leave the paved walk ways so I could not back up. I took this shot with a 7D2 and a 500 mm II off a tripod because I was trying to shoot some parakeets across a small pond when this bird, a Red-crested Turaco (native to Africa) strolled by. I was close to the MFD so changing my f/stop would have made little difference and my SS was already 1/125. I have been hesitant to raise the ISO on my 7D2 so it was at 400. The picture was processed in DPP, LR, and PS, a small amount of canvas was added to the top and left. Noise was reduced with Topaz DeNoise AI. I selectively used a curve layer to reduce brightness of the white around the eye and top of beak. Contrast was elevated to 20 via adjustment layer.
    Question: would you crop more of the OOF body off? Any other suggestions?

  2. #2
    BPN Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Sunrise, Fl
    Posts
    3,241
    Threads
    525
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    I like the focus falloff in this one. My eyes start at bottom right and move immediately to that eye, that crest, that beak. Then back to eye. Only wish for more on top. TFS

    ps
    Details in red crest....

  3. #3
    Avian Moderator Randy Stout's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Michigan
    Posts
    14,127
    Threads
    821
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    James:

    Lovely bird, very nice head turn towards us. Nice catchlight. I would consider a crop as shown, plus add some more canvas on the top. This is very much a matter of personal taste, but I think reducing some of the bulk of the back in the frame really plays up the head, the star of the image.

    There are times when the flexibility of a high quality zoom lens is a good choice, when you can't do a foot zoom or control your shooting situation in other ways.

    Cheers

    Randy
    MY BPN ALBUMS

    "Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy" Sir Isaac Newton

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Daniel Cadieux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    26,311
    Threads
    3,979
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Yep, same issue I had with the flycatcher I posted. Dof fall-off works much better when the bird is facing us, rather than looking back at us. Best is having the bird fully parallel, or just a few degrees angled towards us. It's because it is almost always more pleasing when the oof areas on the subject are behind it rather than in front. Same as when photographing a group of birds, you want to focus on the one in front, and let the others be oof behind. For full-body images this is less of an issue. In my image the large interesting prey item kinda takes the spotlight out of this effect, and here it is the gorgeous colours of the bird you photographed that helps take our eye away from the large oof body in front.

    My 7DII seems to live on ISO 800-1600, and I'll bump it to 3200 if needed, so you definitely had room to move there.

    Comp-wise, the framing needed to be cropped as per Randy, or have more room top and left. Sharp where it needs to be, and a perfect head angle for this pose.

  5. #5
    Avian Moderator Randy Stout's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Michigan
    Posts
    14,127
    Threads
    821
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    James:

    I certainly agree with Daniel that you can push your ISO a bit more. Esp. since you are using Topaz Denoise AI, which can really help save noisy images. I use it sparingly and fiddle with multiple different settings, and it is slow to preview and esp. save the result, even with a pretty fast computer, but for a special image that needs some anti noise love, it is a very useful tool.

    Randy
    MY BPN ALBUMS

    "Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy" Sir Isaac Newton

  6. #6
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Ithaca, NY
    Posts
    10,421
    Threads
    1,708
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Love the colors on this bird.

  7. #7
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    143
    Threads
    25
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Thank you for looking. I will take it back to PS and see what I can do. The white border on top of the crest looks like it is backlit, but the bird actually has a white streak that runs down the crest.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Roach View Post
    I like the focus falloff in this one. My eyes start at bottom right and move immediately to that eye, that crest, that beak. Then back to eye. Only wish for more on top. TFS

    ps
    Details in red crest....

  8. #8
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    143
    Threads
    25
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Thank you for your thoughts. I like your crop.It certainly centers the head/eye. I had a 100-400 II in my backpack but was not quick enough to make the change. Seems to happen to me a lot. Sometimes being too close is a good problem to have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Stout View Post
    James:

    Lovely bird, very nice head turn towards us. Nice catchlight. I would consider a crop as shown, plus add some more canvas on the top. This is very much a matter of personal taste, but I think reducing some of the bulk of the back in the frame really plays up the head, the star of the image.

    There are times when the flexibility of a high quality zoom lens is a good choice, when you can't do a foot zoom or control your shooting situation in other ways.

    Cheers

    Randy

  9. #9
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    143
    Threads
    25
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    I will try to be more bold with my ISO. You are much more skilled in determining proper exposure than I am. I am paranoid about blowing highlights and as a consequence have a tendency to underexpose, thus exaggerating the ISO issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Cadieux View Post
    Yep, same issue I had with the flycatcher I posted. Dof fall-off works much better when the bird is facing us, rather than looking back at us. Best is having the bird fully parallel, or just a few degrees angled towards us. It's because it is almost always more pleasing when the oof areas on the subject are behind it rather than in front. Same as when photographing a group of birds, you want to focus on the one in front, and let the others be oof behind. For full-body images this is less of an issue. In my image the large interesting prey item kinda takes the spotlight out of this effect, and here it is the gorgeous colours of the bird you photographed that helps take our eye away from the large oof body in front.

    My 7DII seems to live on ISO 800-1600, and I'll bump it to 3200 if needed, so you definitely had room to move there.

    Comp-wise, the framing needed to be cropped as per Randy, or have more room top and left. Sharp where it needs to be, and a perfect head angle for this pose.

  10. #10
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    143
    Threads
    25
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    I have been happy with DeNoise AI. I find it works better for me with luminance noise than it does with color noise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Stout View Post
    James:

    I certainly agree with Daniel that you can push your ISO a bit more. Esp. since you are using Topaz Denoise AI, which can really help save noisy images. I use it sparingly and fiddle with multiple different settings, and it is slow to preview and esp. save the result, even with a pretty fast computer, but for a special image that needs some anti noise love, it is a very useful tool.

    Randy

  11. #11
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    143
    Threads
    25
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Truly a beautiful bird. The body is a combination of deep green and blue and like many birds, when caught at the right light angle absolutely glows. I would love to see one in its natural habitat. Maybe one day soon the world will allow that.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Mack View Post
    Love the colors on this bird.

  12. #12
    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Somewhere in the world
    Posts
    20,688
    Threads
    1,296
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Hi James, a question unrelated to previous comments, but why are you using DPP & LR, as they are both Raw converters? I agree with one or the other, coupled with PSCC, but cannot see any advantage going from DPP, to LR, just curious?
    Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

  13. #13
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    143
    Threads
    25
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Actually I do not use DPP to convert. I only use DPP for my final culling. I use Fast Raw Viewer for my initial culling, but like DPP for final culling as it allows some minor tweaking so I can see if an image might be "salvageable". I do not like Fast Raw Viewers tools as well. I could use LR for the same purpose, but have just developed a habit of using DPP. Once I perform my final cull, I save all the RAW keepers and import into LR and go from there. To my eyes, I don't see any difference between conversion with DPP and LR. I know there are many who feel that, for Canon RAW, DPP produces better colors. I just find the presets in LR are quicker for me and I do like the organization capabilities of LR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Hi James, a question unrelated to previous comments, but why are you using DPP & LR, as they are both Raw converters? I agree with one or the other, coupled with PSCC, but cannot see any advantage going from DPP, to LR, just curious?

  14. #14
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Eagle Mountain, Utah
    Posts
    2,709
    Threads
    475
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Love the colors on this one.

    Like the crop posted by Randy.

    Well done.

    TFS

  15. #15
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    143
    Threads
    25
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Agreed. I have changed my crop for my saved JPEG files to more closely resemble Randy's. Centers the bird's head better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krishna Prasad kotti View Post
    Love the colors on this one.

    Like the crop posted by Randy.

    Well done.

    TFS

  16. #16
    Avian Moderator Brian Sump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Golden, CO
    Posts
    2,658
    Threads
    230
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    This is a very pretty bird and a pretty solid image overall. A couple small tweaks can go a long way James.

    Thanks for sharing!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Web Analytics