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Thread: Found an outdoor sanctuary still open...

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    Default Found an outdoor sanctuary still open...

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    EOS R EF 400 DO I f4 1/320 ISO 3200 Manual exp

    I finally found a nature preserve still open in south Florida. So, on a very overcast, constantly drizzling, dark afternoon, I drove to Loxahatchee National Wildlife Preserve right on the edge of the everglades in Palm Beach county. As i arrived, it was clear this was going to be an afternoon at ISO 3200(was my personal limit), wide open at f4 and still only 1/320 SS (any movement would get blur). After getting home, it was clear you pros are right, even on this 30 Mp sensor, I could have and should have tried even higher ISO. The highlight was spotting a complete family of sandhill cranes including mom, dad and two colts slogging in the slough. It was wet and muddy as the colts with those long gainly legs and oversized feet tripped and fell face first in the mud. Their front sides and beaks remained covered with mud. I followed trying to get all four within DOF at F4 and relatively still (1/320). This was all I could muster against that goal. BTW definitely not ETTR without going higher on ISO. Maybe not Birds as ART, just birds as birds...

    As always very grateful for valued comments. Please keep them coming.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi David, glad you managed to get out, but hope you kept isolated.

    It's a shame the adult head isn't visible, but the IQ isn't there to me. There is a considerable amount of Colour Noise and the colour balance to me, appears off, so couple these two together and there is some weird things happening in the overall colour. Based on the OP, adjusting the Tint slider does bring back the image to getting a more 'neutral' basis, but then there is far more that needs to be done to get things back to where they need to be, so if you have time I would revise the raw and get your WB better balanced and use some Luminance & more importantly adjust the Colour noise within the overall NR adjustment, this should help.

    Good that you are finding the limitations within the camera as this will help you I the future, but going ETTR and pushing the ISO may have offered a better file to work with overall.

    TFS
    Steve
    Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Hi David, maybe auto ISO and manual would help - then just dial in extra exposure till you verge on the clipping. I suspect the image was underexposed and the noise has correspondingly accentuated.

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    Yes, thanks to you both. Next time higher ISO either way. I do have my second saved mode in camera as manual with auto ISO. Just forcing myself to learn using fully manual first. But, I should have tried higher ISO to get histogram further to the right.
    Thanks as always, gents.

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    I should have tried higher ISO to get histogram further to the right.
    But also your WB in post production David, it really will help.
    Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Hi David, a real tender image with the colts and parent. If your camera will let you use Auto ISO while in manual you might try it. I always do that, I choose the shutter speed and aperture and let the camera set the ISO. That being said I do override that ISO setting by using the +/- EV button and dial in a over or under exposure depending on the conditions. To paraphrase Artie, the sensor is only smart in bright light on mid tones. Dark bird against a bright background needs more light or exposure, white bird in bright light most times needs less light or exposure. Do not worry about the ISO number that is only a indication of how sensitive the sensor is to light, the number doesn't matter if the image is exposed correctly or as you wrote ETTR. Concentrate on shutter speed, aperture and correct exposure, take a image and check the histogram, adjust the exposure if needed. When the ISO rises because it is needed for the correct exposure it does not cause more noise, under exposure and having to lift a image causes noise. The noise in a camera sensor is always there because of the electronics. One overcomes the noise by having the light signal greater than the noise signal. I always like to think of noise in relation to a old radio or television that had to be fine tuned. Not tuned on the station there was static noise or snow on a television, fine tune either and the closer to the station the static sound or snow went away. The early cameras that were very prone to noise is where ETTR started, to overcome noise in those cameras the image was intentionally over exposed so the light signal was stronger than the noise. Modern cameras are much better. If you use a certain ISO number as a ceiling you are limiting what you can do with the camera. Sorry I went on but I think you can do so much more and have a true love for bird photography.
    Joe Przybyla

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    David the real killer here is the loss of the parent in the grass.Nice to see the young with the parent. Agree with the other comments and like Joe's comment. I took away some of his suggestions.

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    Nice to see the parent and chicks together. I would warm the frame up a little.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Przybyla View Post
    Hi David, a real tender image with the colts and parent. If your camera will let you use Auto ISO while in manual you might try it. I always do that, I choose the shutter speed and aperture and let the camera set the ISO. That being said I do override that ISO setting by using the +/- EV button and dial in a over or under exposure depending on the conditions. To paraphrase Artie, the sensor is only smart in bright light on mid tones. Dark bird against a bright background needs more light or exposure, white bird in bright light most times needs less light or exposure. Do not worry about the ISO number that is only a indication of how sensitive the sensor is to light, the number doesn't matter if the image is exposed correctly or as you wrote ETTR. Concentrate on shutter speed, aperture and correct exposure, take a image and check the histogram, adjust the exposure if needed. When the ISO rises because it is needed for the correct exposure it does not cause more noise, under exposure and having to lift a image causes noise. The noise in a camera sensor is always there because of the electronics. One overcomes the noise by having the light signal greater than the noise signal. I always like to think of noise in relation to a old radio or television that had to be fine tuned. Not tuned on the station there was static noise or snow on a television, fine tune either and the closer to the station the static sound or snow went away. The early cameras that were very prone to noise is where ETTR started, to overcome noise in those cameras the image was intentionally over exposed so the light signal was stronger than the noise. Modern cameras are much better. If you use a certain ISO number as a ceiling you are limiting what you can do with the camera. Sorry I went on but I think you can do so much more and have a true love for bird photography.
    All great info, Joe, as usual. Yes, not only does the camera support it, but it's easier to use due to Histogram right in the viewfinder (on every shot). I did know this was underexposed but the main issue was my fear of going above 3200 as I stated. And... in my auto ISO setup I set the range to have 3200 as upper limit. But I will change. Have been in pure manual for a few months learning the ropes. Used to always be in aperture priority with exposure compensation as Artie taught me many years ago. As always, thanks for your always valued inputs. Any suggestions on an ISO limit (I know it will vary per rig)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Roach View Post
    All great info, Joe, as usual. Yes, not only does the camera support it, but it's easier to use due to Histogram right in the viewfinder (on every shot). I did know this was underexposed but the main issue was my fear of going above 3200 as I stated. And... in my auto ISO setup I set the range to have 3200 as upper limit. But I will change. Have been in pure manual for a few months learning the ropes. Used to always be in aperture priority with exposure compensation as Artie taught me many years ago. As always, thanks for your always valued inputs. Any suggestions on an ISO limit (I know it will vary per rig)?
    Hi David, I don't want to limit what I might need, so I have mine set to ISO 12,800.
    Joe Przybyla

    "Sometimes I do get to places just as God is ready to have somebody click the shutter"... Ansel Adams

    www.amazinglight.smugmug.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Przybyla View Post
    Hi David, I don't want to limit what I might need, so I have mine set to ISO 12,800.
    Thanks so much, my friend. I will start there and crank it up if needed even in full manual.

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    David, just be mindful of any Dynamic Range loss and I personally wouldn’t push the R above 6400, perhaps even less?
    Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    But also your WB in post production David, it really will help.
    Thanks Steve and I hear you. This is one I have a problem with. Not the advice, the execution. As I've said before I am partially color blind and it makes it difficult to see when WB adjust with dropper is ruining/or not the entire image. Any advice on adjusting WB with a pretty fool proof method would be appreciated.

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    David, I thought in the early days I gave you some links for PS and adjustments? Did they work?

    I will pick it up tomorrow as I need my beauty sleep and up early to check on the owls.
    Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Somebody forgot the lawnmower ... It must have been a while back if I was teaching Av ...

    with love, a
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Somebody forgot the lawnmower ... It must have been a while back if I was teaching Av ...

    with love, a
    Yes, they don't allow those (lawnmowers that is) at National Wildlife Preserves ... That would be 13 years ago on the Av and you did also suggest moving to manual for other situations. Such as flight with possibly different BGs... Time flies.

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