Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Australian Wood Duck - male

  1. #1
    Lifetime Member Colin Driscoll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lake Macquarie, Australia
    Posts
    1,796
    Threads
    347
    Thank You Posts

    Default Australian Wood Duck - male

    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    Not as pretty as its Northern Hemisphere namesake.
    1DX3 600 f4 3 1.4x 3 HH
    1/2000 f8 iso800
    Manual

    Cropped from horizontal.
    Levels, light sharpen, removed some large specular highlights from BG, cleaned up excess catchlights DPP4 and PS2020

  2. #2
    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    San Francisco, California, United States
    Posts
    17,295
    Threads
    1,175
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    nice head shot Collin, it is too dark as posted, the IQ isn't great. it's over sharpened (lots of halo artifacts) and the face is missing the fine details you would expect from a close range head shot with more than $20,000 worth of the latest top of the line equipment. Is it a huge crop?

    IMHO you should cover the basics first, you are put ting such top dollar in your gear I would suggest also booking a workshop or consulting session with a competent photographer to show you how to use your huge investment to its potential. It will pay much more dividend than spending thousands on the latest and greatest gear.

    TFS
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 03-28-2020 at 08:30 PM.
    New! Nikon Capture One Pro Guide
    http://www.arihazeghiphotography.com/Guides/


    ------------------------------------------------
    Visit my blog
    http://www.arihazeghiphotography.com/blog

  3. #3
    Avian Moderator gail bisson's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    11,942
    Threads
    847
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    I think this is a good solid image.
    I do not see the halo artifacts Arash is talking about. I would increase the exposure by 1/3 to 1/2.
    Lots of rich colors on the bird and in the BG and I see lots of feather detail.
    I would do a bit more noise reduction in the BG.
    I like this image,
    Gail

  4. #4
    BPN Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Ithaca, NY
    Posts
    7,974
    Threads
    1,415
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Man the head looks huge. Yes it does look underexposed. The framing is nice.

  5. #5
    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Dortmund / Germany
    Posts
    7,426
    Threads
    775
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Hi Colin .... can only echo Arash´s thoughts here !!!!!! Sadly ....

    You have a F1 racer .... but cannot handle the potential of the beast . And that includes the files that you produce , today it is necessary to learn editing to get the best possible output , otherwise it is waste of money IMHO . But your call .... and for sure not a question of a screen set up .

    TFS Andreas

  6. #6
    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Dortmund / Germany
    Posts
    7,426
    Threads
    775
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Hi Gail .... sorry to say , wondering what you are seeing in terms of being a good solid image !!!

    Technically seen ... it is not good , apart from being too dark , the intense colors are masking details that might be present . Contrast pretty strong masking details , blacks choked masking details . Feathers over sharpened with artifacts ( halos , white fringe ) .... beak is soft compared to that !!!
    And why the **** ... should I use NR at ISO 800 .... with this camera , not understandable for me !!!!
    Going with more exposure would not help with the choked blacks !!!!!

    Just really wondering what you are seeing ....???!!!

    Might sound harsh , but not meant harsh , just a straight forward comment to come to the point , well from my POV .

    Cheers Andreas

  7. #7
    BPN Member dankearl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    7,795
    Threads
    1,155
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    I also do not see artifacts but I cannot figure why this is so dark??
    Why don't; you just go find a simple bird, put the sun behind you, use auto iso
    and appropriate shutter speed, shoot wide open and just minimally crop and process.
    This is not that hard....
    Dan Kearl

  8. #8
    Avian Moderator gail bisson's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    11,942
    Threads
    847
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas Liedmann View Post
    Hi Gail .... sorry to say , wondering what you are seeing in terms of being a good solid image !!!

    Technically seen ... it is not good , apart from being too dark , the intense colors are masking details that might be present . Contrast pretty strong masking details , blacks choked masking details . Feathers over sharpened with artifacts ( halos , white fringe ) .... beak is soft compared to that !!!
    And why the **** ... should I use NR at ISO 800 .... with this camera , not understandable for me !!!!
    Going with more exposure would not help with the choked blacks !!!!!



    Just really wondering what you are seeing ....???!!!

    Might sound harsh , but not meant harsh , just a straight forward comment to come to the point , well from my POV .

    Cheers Andreas
    I find this thread positively bizarre. Being critiqued for a critique...
    There is a person behind this image who is likely trying his best with his new camera. I find your comments to Colin cruel.
    No need to use **** with me.
    Be kind guys,
    Gail

  9. #9
    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Dortmund / Germany
    Posts
    7,426
    Threads
    775
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Sorry Gail ... do not get me wrong .
    I did not use the word that starts with an " F " .... and i do not see any cruelty in my comment , just honesty , well IHMO !!!

    But I say honestly sorry to you , if you feel threatened by my comment . And you see the image like you do ... I just see it differently !!!
    Dark is dark , and cannot contain detail ...!!!

    It would be really cool, if you could be so kind to answer to my wording about the issues that I see in this image !!!


    Sorry Colin for highjacking your thread .... hope at least you do not mind the straightforward comment . WE had that in the past ....

    Cheers Andreas
    Last edited by Andreas Liedmann; 03-29-2020 at 11:15 AM.

  10. #10
    BPN Member Aditya Sridhar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Bahrain
    Posts
    380
    Threads
    34
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    Just to chime in, I agree with both Arash and Gail's critiques. I do think the image is underexposed and lacks a bit of fine feather detail, but with some careful processing, it can look really good and certainly not as bad as some of the other comments make it out to be. Regardless of your camera gear (and you do have some of the best in the market), I think a revisit in processing can really make this shine.

    I've attached a reference image which you could use. It does have a few compression artifacts, but it does address some of the issues of the original post.

    1) I'd raise the exposure by a good stop to bring out detail on the face as well as the BG.

    2) Considering the strong light that's masking some of the detail in the blacks, I'd reduce the contrast to bring out more detail in some of those areas (such as the back of the head and the neck).

    3) I see the halo artifacts that Arash has mentioned (especially visible on the bird's back and on the face). It could be a product of the strong lighting and structure of the feathers, or possibly a sharpening artifact. On the RAW/TIFF file, I'd back off on the sharpening in those areas.

    4) Practically every image will need NR. The noise level varies between scenes based on the exposure and lighting. The BG does show some noise and a selective pass should deal with it quite easily.

    I love the colors and the composition. With some TLC, you should have a solid file on your hands. I hope this helps :) TFS Colin!
    Last edited by Aditya Sridhar; 03-30-2020 at 03:35 AM.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    San Francisco, California, United States
    Posts
    17,295
    Threads
    1,175
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    The artifacts are clearly visible in the the breast area at least to my eye

    I think the amount to detail we see depends on how sharp our eyes are for these details as well as the monitor we are using although here the issues are quite visible on my MBP laptop monitor as well

    hope this helps
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 03-29-2020 at 11:43 AM.
    New! Nikon Capture One Pro Guide
    http://www.arihazeghiphotography.com/Guides/


    ------------------------------------------------
    Visit my blog
    http://www.arihazeghiphotography.com/blog

  12. #12
    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    San Francisco, California, United States
    Posts
    17,295
    Threads
    1,175
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Hey Colin can you send me the RAW file? I will look to see what the issue was that it turned out this way

    cheers
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 03-29-2020 at 12:57 PM.
    New! Nikon Capture One Pro Guide
    http://www.arihazeghiphotography.com/Guides/


    ------------------------------------------------
    Visit my blog
    http://www.arihazeghiphotography.com/blog

  13. #13
    Lifetime Member Colin Driscoll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lake Macquarie, Australia
    Posts
    1,796
    Threads
    347
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Ha! Just as well I have a sense of humor and a thick skin . A bit like tag team wrestling with Ari and Andreas having a go.
    Andreas, I'm still waiting for you to post something that shows what I should be aiming for.
    So the darker image is a response to the many critiques of my images that comment on the harsh Australian light.
    Dan, sunrise directly behind me, bird just in front of me, bad PP on my part.
    I can't see them but the breast artifacts would likely be from selective additional sharpening because it looked a bit soft to me there.
    Aditya, thanks for the re-post, looks good.
    Cheers Gail!

  14. #14
    BPN Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Sunrise, Fl
    Posts
    1,619
    Threads
    266
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gail bisson View Post
    I find this thread positively bizarre. Being critiqued for a critique...
    There is a person behind this image who is likely trying his best with his new camera. I find your comments to Colin cruel.
    No need to use **** with me.
    Be kind guys,
    Gail
    Well said Gail. I completely concur and Aditya I like your repost and your excellent educational points. In the darker OP, it looks like the halos could be droplets of water to me. Colin, I disagree, this beauty is every bit as pretty as the northern hemisphere namesake. TFS

  15. #15
    BPN Member dankearl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    7,795
    Threads
    1,155
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    You are a good sport, Colin...
    My critique was not meant to be personal so you know,
    I just think you should trust your equipment.
    Don't sharpen, you probably did not need to, your lens is plenty sharp...
    Just take sharp well exposed photos and don't mess much with them.
    Look forward to your results.
    Dan Kearl

  16. #16
    BPN Member William Dickson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Fife, Scotland
    Posts
    6,178
    Threads
    867
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Driscoll View Post
    Ha! Just as well I have a sense of humor and a thick skin . A bit like tag team wrestling with Ari and Andreas having a go.
    Andreas, I'm still waiting for you to post something that shows what I should be aiming for.
    So the darker image is a response to the many critiques of my images that comment on the harsh Australian light.
    Dan, sunrise directly behind me, bird just in front of me, bad PP on my part.
    I can't see them but the breast artifacts would likely be from selective additional sharpening because it looked a bit soft to me there.
    Aditya, thanks for the re-post, looks good.
    Cheers Gail!
    Well said Colin....been there done that ...sometimes painful...But...I am sure you will come out the better for it.

    All the best

    Will

  17. #17
    Avian Moderator gail bisson's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    11,942
    Threads
    847
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    I am truly a happy camper right now. Your responses and kind,helpful comments make me proud of our BPN community. "The boys" rock!!
    Andreas- all is good. I appreciate you taking the time to reply.
    As you can see by Aditya's excellent repost (which would be even better with the RAW file and I hope Arash gets the RAW from Colin and has a go at it) the image is salvageable.
    I think the comp is excellent. The BG was severely underexposed hence I see noise or perhaps pixellation which is why I suggested NR to smooth the BG out. And yes, a properly exposed image at ISO 800 with the 1 Dx3 should not need any or very little NR. I usually always run a bit of NR on my BG to smooth out the minor imperfections.
    The blacks on the back of the neck are indeed "chocked" but this can add some artistic license to the image and often adds drama to the image. "Light illuminates and shadows define".
    Best,
    Gail

  18. #18
    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    San Francisco, California, United States
    Posts
    17,295
    Threads
    1,175
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Everyone should feel welcomed to comment and are entitled to their opinion. We strive to provide real critique and not just "great shot mate" comments here. As I said before without real critique there is no improvement, there is no progress. only stagnation and mediocrity...

    If you like an image you need to articulate what exactly you like about it. No one should apologize for pointing out the flaws or negatives of an image as long as it is done respectfully and in a professional manner. that is equally encouraged.

    As for the image Collin sent me the RAW file, it has some issues :

    It is about 2-3 stops underexposed. Canon cameras do not handle under exposure well, whether it is a digital rbel or 1DXIII. the sensor technology has not caught up with competition in this regard, so the best thing to do is to get the exposure right in the camera at the time of capture.

    the other issue is that the RAW isn't quite tack sharp. the focus group was on the bill but the plane of focus is not right on the head but rather on the breast area.

    A few suggestions would be :

    Do not stop down the lens, you gain nothing most of the time, shooting at f/5.6 would have made the shutter speed 1/4000 sec eliminating any possible hand shake (if hand hold). Also try to put the focus group on the head rather than the bill. finally Canon cameras have always had instability in AF, I doubt if this issue has been fully eliminated in 1DX III, my solution is to always shoot a burst even for a stationary subject to make sure there are a couple of tack sharp frames there to work with.

    there are some strange spectacular highlights in the BG, not sure what caused these, it will be some work to remove them.


    I processed the image using DD 4.12 which did a descent job, eliminated the sharpening artifacts and also brought out more details from the face

    Name:  A01I0200.jpg
Views: 61
Size:  561.9 KB
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 03-29-2020 at 05:38 PM.
    New! Nikon Capture One Pro Guide
    http://www.arihazeghiphotography.com/Guides/


    ------------------------------------------------
    Visit my blog
    http://www.arihazeghiphotography.com/blog

  19. #19
    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    San Francisco, California, United States
    Posts
    17,295
    Threads
    1,175
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    here is the original file BTW

    Name:  orig.jpg
Views: 62
Size:  246.1 KB
    New! Nikon Capture One Pro Guide
    http://www.arihazeghiphotography.com/Guides/


    ------------------------------------------------
    Visit my blog
    http://www.arihazeghiphotography.com/blog

  20. #20
    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    San Francisco, California, United States
    Posts
    17,295
    Threads
    1,175
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    A note for Colin, "Harsh" light typically refers to the angle of the light, not the brightness of the image. Images taken in mid day with the sun overhead suffer from harsh light because of the strong shadows and blown highlights created from the angle of the sun

    for this image sun was low in the sky and almost behind your head, so the light was sweet and no harsh at all here.

    hope this helps
    New! Nikon Capture One Pro Guide
    http://www.arihazeghiphotography.com/Guides/


    ------------------------------------------------
    Visit my blog
    http://www.arihazeghiphotography.com/blog

  21. #21
    BPN Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Lakeland, FL
    Posts
    5,551
    Threads
    1,497
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Hi Colin, I have been following this thread and wanted to respond. Hang in there buddy, it will get better. I was there about five years ago. I knew Artie lived in Florida about a hour away from me. I had the audacity to email Artie a link to my website saying we had something in common, a love of bird photography. As he is, he graciously looked at the website and responded. He said there were a few good images but others had problems, some not square to the plane of the sensor and most lacking good post processing. Artie suggested that I join BPN and that I purchase some of his books and guides. I did both of those things. What I found most helpful were the images in his books, I studied the exposure and the light angle. Artie prefers direct frontal light, point your shadow at the bird I remember him saying. From the images in his books and online I trained my eye to see a correctly exposed image. That led to know how to use the histogram to properly expose a image in the camera. Then I had to master post processing to take the image from the camera and show it at it's best. That took five years of using Lightroom and the help and tutoring by Steve Kaluski, much like Arash is doing with you. Steve would say... send me the RAW file and then he would tell me what I did wrong and how to not do it again. There is a saying, experience is the best teacher, and so it is. I takes a long time to master this discipline. I am not familiar with DPP but if it has a selection for auto exposure I would start with that. I always begin my post processing in Lightroom by selecting Auto. Lightroom uses AI (artificial intelligence) for it's auto exposure setting analyzing the image at hand to billions of images in it's database. That is only the beginning of post processing, from that starting point the image has to be tweaked into the final master file, but it will show a reasonably exposed image correcting for under exposure or over exposure. I feel for you my friend, you have top notch gear and struggling now. Keep at it, with the help here in this forum you will get there. I feel for you my friend, you have top notch gear and struggling now. Keep at it, with the help here all this will pass.
    Last edited by Joseph Przybyla; 03-29-2020 at 10:13 PM.
    Joe Przybyla

    "Sometimes I do get to places just as God is ready to have somebody click the shutter"... Ansel Adams

    www.amazinglight.smugmug.com

  22. #22
    Lifetime Member Colin Driscoll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lake Macquarie, Australia
    Posts
    1,796
    Threads
    347
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Wonderful stuff! Thank you all for the advice and encouragement.
    Now to start putting it all into practice.

  23. #23
    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Somewhere in the world
    Posts
    17,392
    Threads
    1,041
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Hi Colin, Glad to hear you have a 'thick skin' and a sense of humour, a great asset to have. A good move to send Arash the raw, in that way you got the best feedback, because it's the raw, not a posting where we all have to make 'assumptions' based on the info attached with the OP.

    Based on the above, my suggestion would be to get to know your Histogram and use ETTR (Expose to the Right) if you are currently not, this will then give you a good starting point for your raw and maximise the data captured. So many folk I have seen looking at the LCD screen and then wonder why their images are less than ideal!!!! Once you get your exposure right, techs are far easier to brush up on. Personally I would tend to use the 1-point AF point, or AF point expansion, rarely anything more, but that may change now and subject to the situation. Always try to get the FP on the eye, very easy now with the Smart Controller. With regard to how far you can push it, well I still think you have at a least a Stop to play with, but if you work on ETTR then you should never need to go this far, invariably you end up dropping the exposure by a -1/3 of a stop in PP, better to drop rather than open up exposure.

    Maybe Arash could also check the camera set up via the EXIF in DPP, as so many times here I see folk with kit like this shooting with the camera incorrectly set up.

    Also, as you use DPP do you have Arash's PDF guide which will help you, if it was LR (which I use) I could have stepped in to highlight some of it's drawback what it does, behind the scenes, but no need for that, but I will help you with some other stuff Colin.

    Hard under these current circumstances and perhaps shooting birds in the garden is the way to go, but learn to know your camera where buttons become instinctive, use that Histogram/EV and shoot manual, as everything will hone nicely and from this, your images will step up a gear in the right way, it's all positive Colin, enjoy your photography.

    Kudos in embracing all the positives here.

    Steve

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Web Analytics