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Thread: Lovely nails! a case of too much cropping

  1. #1
    Lifetime Member Colin Driscoll's Avatar
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    Default Lovely nails! a case of too much cropping

    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    Osprey about to land on top of a yacht mast.
    5D4 600 f4 III HH
    1/2000 f7.1 iso500
    Manual

    DPP4 sharpness 3
    PS2020 cropped and tip of mast removed from the bottom.
    No other processing.

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    Macro and Flora Moderator Jonathan Ashton's Avatar
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    A fine shot Colin, really well caught. I would suggest lower the highlights a little and just put a tiny Dodge brushing under the eye and on the beak.

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    Super Moderator Daniel Cadieux's Avatar
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    A pretty good view of those long and curled talons! Fully raised wings are perfect. Fine detail seems lacking as posted IMO.

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    Lifetime Member Colin Driscoll's Avatar
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    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    Thanks, here's one with a bit of gentle PP.
    Reduced highlights and a touch of USM.
    A little dodging around the eye and face.
    Hoping to avoid the 'crunchies'.

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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    sweet view of the talons, the original was crunchy but something disastrous has happened to the repost. it looks like a watercolor painting rather than a photo

    TFS
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    Lifetime Member Colin Driscoll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi View Post
    sweet view of the talons, the original was crunchy but something disastrous has happened to the repost. it looks like a watercolor painting rather than a photo

    TFS
    Could you please explain what you mean by 'crunchy'. The original was unchanged from the RAW image other than for the DPP4 sharpness, and export to web and devices. Do you mean too pixelated because of the crop.

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    The pose is great.

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Pose is great. A bit short on head-angle. The repost is a processing disaster; crunchy to me means over-sharpened and too much contrast ....

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    Hey Colin, love the pose but agree with the above comments. Would you be willing to post a dropbox link to the original RAW? It might help people make more fine-tuned suggestions as well as post their own take? TFS

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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Driscoll View Post
    Could you please explain what you mean by 'crunchy'. The original was unchanged from the RAW image other than for the DPP4 sharpness, and export to web and devices. Do you mean too pixelated because of the crop.
    crunchy means the details look coarse and lack definition, it is not blurry but it looks as if it was painted by a coarse painting brush that doesn't render fine details. Somewhere in your workflow something is really off that causes the consistent poor results, I have no idea what it is but something is wrong somewhat like driving with flat tiers. I am curious as why you don't see it, what kind of monitor do you use?

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    Lifetime Member Colin Driscoll's Avatar
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    Thanks, monitors are dual Dell U2717D run as mosaic because they are my work monitors connected to three PC via KVM.
    https://www.cnet.com/reviews/dell-ul...u2717d-review/
    What I don't understand is why the first image posted looked crunchy when the only processing was sharpness 3 in DPP4 which is recommended in yours and Artie's guide, plus crop in PS.
    I expected the comment from Daniel about the lack of fine detail.

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    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
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    Hi Colin ... you should see the difference from your posting to other postings !!!! In terms of tone/contrast and specially sharpness and FINE details . Just download a file from others i.e. Arash ... and look at them side by side in PS .... you SHOULD see the differences . IMHO .
    Your problem starts in DPP already .... IMHO ... you thankfully sent me the cormorant to have a look .... please see my comment with the images attached . Hope this helps ... to see things from a slightly different angle !!

    Please other folks should go back to the thread and have a look :Hanging out to dry

    Cheers Andreas

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    Lifetime Member Colin Driscoll's Avatar
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    Righto, here's the Dropbox link so anyone can have a go at it. Perhaps it is all down to not being close enough!
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/d530d6a500...A2077.CR2?dl=0

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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Driscoll View Post
    Thanks, monitors are dual Dell U2717D run as mosaic because they are my work monitors connected to three PC via KVM.
    https://www.cnet.com/reviews/dell-ul...u2717d-review/
    What I don't understand is why the first image posted looked crunchy when the only processing was sharpness 3 in DPP4 which is recommended in yours and Artie's guide, plus crop in PS.
    I expected the comment from Daniel about the lack of fine detail.

    Hi Colin, the problem could be the KVM switch, these are usually cheap pieces of cr**. The signal is analog VGA and the KVM tries to up-res it resulting in a junk crunchy image. This setup does not work for image processing. you need to connect your monitor directly to your PC's graphic card using a digital display port or HDMI cable that can run at high resolution and full color depth. If you have two monitors you need a graphic card with two outputs not a KVM switch.

    I cannot stress the importance of a proper monitor and PC + graphic card for image processing. you put so much time and $$$ in your gear taking the images but then flush everything down the drain by using a terrible setup for image processing, you cannot optimize what you cannot see. Kind of like buying a Porsche then pouring beer in its tank ;) literally every image you post has serious IQ problems at first I thought you may have some vision issues but now I am convinced it is your setup.

    cheers
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 03-14-2020 at 06:49 PM.
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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    can you post the RAW file for the osprey image? the cormorant is a HUGE crop and the light is coming from the wrong side, it's a delete and not something you can salvage.
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    Lifetime Member Colin Driscoll's Avatar
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    Thanks Ari, no it is an ATEN Display Port KVM.
    https://www.aten.com/global/en/produ...itches/cs1924/
    Still I do take your point, might need to get another monitor to plug into just one of the graphics cards.
    And I do have good vision, better than 20/20 apparently.

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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Driscoll View Post
    Thanks Ari, no it is an ATEN Display Port KVM.
    https://www.aten.com/global/en/produ...itches/cs1924/
    Still I do take your point, might need to get another monitor to plug into just one of the graphics cards.
    And I do have good vision, better than 20/20 apparently.
    Any KVM is junk for assessing image quality doesn't matter who makes it. the issue is that Windows does not talk to the KVM switch the same way it talks to a monitor. It will switch to low-res 8bit mode and then KVM tries to upscale the signal....KVM is used in the IT industry when you want to use a single monitor with multiple computers in a lab or office environment where you are using your monitor as a terminal and are not concerned about image quality and color accuracy. It is not intended and suitable for attaching multi monitors to a single computer.
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 03-14-2020 at 07:20 PM.
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    Lifetime Member Colin Driscoll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi View Post
    can you post the RAW file for the osprey image? the cormorant is a HUGE crop and the light is coming from the wrong side, it's a delete and not something you can salvage.
    Here's the link, thanks.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/d530d6a500...A2077.CR2?dl=0
    Last edited by Colin Driscoll; 03-14-2020 at 08:01 PM.

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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Driscoll View Post
    this is still the cormi image
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    Lifetime Member Colin Driscoll's Avatar
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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    wow Collin this is a mega crop and you had actually enlarged it beyond pixlation, the IQ is poor because we are looking at an "enlarged" image. this one is an instant delete. don't waste your time processing it :)
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    Lifetime Member Colin Driscoll's Avatar
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    Nothing like being ambitious . Nevertheless this has been invaluable learning for me.
    I have a plan to improve my processing platform and I will not engage in mega-cropping for BPN.
    They do present well on Instagram however!

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    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
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    Hi Colin no processing platform will improve this kind of shots !!!!!
    As Arash said .... shot for the bin !!

    Well I personally would not even use it for social media , but your call .

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    Lifetime Member Colin Driscoll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas Liedmann View Post
    Well I personally would not even use it for social media , but your call .
    Ha! I think I'm safe, my six followers always very politely like my posts!! Discerning group they are

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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    given the helpful discussion I am moving this to the ETL forum. The lesson learned : a heavy crop like this will never work as a avian photograph, it might pass as a cellphone quality image and get you likes on Instagram but it's not a keeper as art :)
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    Lifetime Member Colin Driscoll's Avatar
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    Another lesson: if you can't see that the image is really poor then check your eyes (mine are good) and processing platform, particularly the quality of your monitor.
    I really appreciated your persistence Ari and your no nonsense advice.

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    checking your eye was meant as a joke ;)

    cheers mate
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    Lifetime Member Colin Driscoll's Avatar
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    Hey, all good and a reasonable conjecture anyway

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    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi View Post
    given the helpful discussion I am moving this to the ETL forum. The lesson learned : a heavy crop like this will never work as a avian photograph, it might pass as a cellphone quality image and get you likes on Instagram but it's not a keeper as art :)
    Arash will work with no image .... does not matter which content !!!! Just my take

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