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Thread: coastal B.C. grizzly

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    Default coastal B.C. grizzly

    This big fellow was ambling along the bank of the Atnarko R. on the coast of B.C. last fall as we watched from a back eddy across the river. He was peacefully going about fishing up rotten salmon off the bottom and slurping them down...not a care in the world. Canon 1DxII, Sigma 150-600, f5-6.3 OS Contemp.,ISO 2500,f/6.3, 1/800,HHName:  contented grizzly 2.jpg
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    Nice sighting, he blends well into that habitat. Would be nice to see one of those paws out of the water, but that is a different photo... Good front-on pose and glance in your direction.

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    Hi Bob, I'm away as you know so can only add some partial feedback, however what would be good is if you could send the Raw to me via Dropbox, WeTransfer or anything else, but it needs to be the Raw, NOT a tiff or JPEG. In doing so I can see where the focus point was, partial camera set up and how good the raw is. This is a camera that needs to be set up, then customised to the shooting conditions at the time.

    My first feeling is that overall the image doesn't look right, too much NR creating some major issues and there is hardly any detail as such in the BKG. From what I can see is that perhaps the eyes are sharp, but to the nose the DoF tails off, so I would say more DoF and HH you need twice the focal length as a starting point ie 1/1200. Did you use AF expanded and in the centre or off centre or single point, (although I can see from the file if you send it across)? Having Cases set up too will only aid in getting the shot, but that can only be achieved by understanding how it works and the difference between Tracking Sensitivity and the Acel/Decel relationship with the camera.

    I do however like the low POV and think that if you had waited, that front left paw would be up and trailing water which would have made the image extra special.

    TFS
    Steve

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    The head on this guy looks huge. Nice view of this big bear. That log on the right looks kind of odd to me. Like that the bear is walking in water and right towards you. Hope to see more.

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    Hi Bob ...always a special to see and photograph these great bears .
    I do like the low POV and straight look of the subject to the viewer , well done .
    Sadly the image does look over processed ... overall . There is no fine detail and some weird looking haloing along most of the contrast edges .
    Would be interesting how you processed this frame .

    TFS Andreas

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    Hello Bob,

    Impressive grizzly bear and the eye contact as well as POV make this image for me. I also like the pose: not quite menacing but focused on grabbing that salmon, paw slightly raised, water dripping from its mouth.

    Compositionally this works well, although I agree with Steve on a few points he made above, a little more DoF would have been great as well as a tad more SS.

    I personally find the image a tad dark, and the bright spots in the FG (RHS) a little bit distracting - not suggesting you crop much tighter, just thinking a slight CW rotation would fix the issue without much impact on image quality.

    Thank you for participating here in the Wildlife Forum and I sincerely hope to see more from you in the future - many thanks for sharing

    Kind regards,
    Gabriela Plesea

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    Hi Bob , nice to see you posting here . I really liked the POV and the pose. but sadly the processing is not working for me . Sorry . I do hope you will show us some more images of these Bears.

    TFS .

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    Thanks for comments greg---I have over 150 images from this encounter,,,several with paws up, others with salmon in mouth, and some of when he mock charged us so I'll be posting more in the future but it appears I've got a lot to learn from this post first.

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    Thanks John and yes he was a big guy and walking directly upriver towards us--see reply to greg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas Liedmann View Post
    Hi Bob ...always a special to see and photograph these great bears .
    I do like the low POV and straight look of the subject to the viewer , well done .
    Sadly the image does look over processed ... overall . There is no fine detail and some weird looking haloing along most of the contrast edges .
    Would be interesting how you processed this frame .

    TFS Andreas
    Hi Andreas: The image was PP in LR and it appears I have much to learn. I'm sending the RAW to Steve as requested and look forward to getting it right ...I hope.I wonder if some of the haloing you refer to may be the silver tip effect on the rims of the fur of the big males that gives these animals their iconic moniker "Silvertip Grizzly"?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriela Plesea View Post
    Hello Bob,

    Impressive grizzly bear and the eye contact as well as POV make this image for me. I also like the pose: not quite menacing but focused on grabbing that salmon, paw slightly raised, water dripping from its mouth.

    Compositionally this works well, although I agree with Steve on a few points he made above, a little more DoF would have been great as well as a tad more SS.



    I personally find the image a tad dark, and the bright spots in the FG (RHS) a little bit distracting - not suggesting you crop much tighter, just thinking a slight CW rotation would fix the issue without much impact on image quality.

    Thank you for participating here in the Wildlife Forum and I sincerely hope to see more from you in the future - many thanks for sharing

    Kind regards,
    Thanks for the welcome and comments Gabriela.. I have some images later on in the series that truly are menacing as he charged us from about 40 yds. away ( happily he was on other side of the river and it was only a mock charge, but it made me flinch for sure as I was trying to keep him in the viewer) I should put that in the story sequence thread but first must get this one done right.
    Last edited by Bob Smith; 05-27-2019 at 05:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by haseeb badar View Post
    Hi Bob , nice to see you posting here . I really liked the POV and the pose. but sadly the processing is not working for me . Sorry . I do hope you will show us some more images of these Bears.

    TFS .
    Thanks for the welcome Haseeb...please see my other replies.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Hi Bob, I'm away as you know so can only add some partial feedback, however what would be good is if you could send the Raw to me via Dropbox, WeTransfer or anything else, but it needs to be the Raw, NOT a tiff or JPEG. In doing so I can see where the focus point was, partial camera set up and how good the raw is. This is a camera that needs to be set up, then customised to the shooting conditions at the time.

    My first feeling is that overall the image doesn't look right, too much NR creating some major issues and there is hardly any detail as such in the BKG. From what I can see is that perhaps the eyes are sharp, but to the nose the DoF tails off, so I would say more DoF and HH you need twice the focal length as a starting point ie 1/1200. Did you use AF expanded and in the centre or off centre or single point, (although I can see from the file if you send it across)? Having Cases set up too will only aid in getting the shot, but that can only be achieved by understanding how it works and the difference between Tracking Sensitivity and the Acel/Decel relationship with the camera.

    I do however like the low POV and think that if you had waited, that front left paw would be up and trailing water which would have made the image extra special.

    TFS
    Steve
    Thank you Steve--I've messaged you for your email so I can Dropbox the RAW.



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    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    Hi Bob ... by haloing i talked about fancy things going along edges in some areas of the image .

    For illustration my RP , surprised to see that an image can be that strong processed in Lightroom .

    Cheers Andreas

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    Hi Bob, no PM received, so I have dropped you one back.

    cheers
    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Smith View Post
    Thanks for the welcome and comments Gabriela.. I have some images later on in the series that truly are menacing as he charged us from about 40 yds. away ( happily he was on other side of the river and it was only a mock charge, but it made me flinch for sure as I was trying to keep him in the viewer) I should put that in the story sequence thread but first must get this one done right.
    It's great to have you here, Bob! And I cannot wait to see more
    Gabriela Plesea

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    It's great to have you here, Bob!
    Bob, don't forget to add/share your thoughts, feedback and comments on other threads posted here too, it's a great way to expand your knowledge and welcome a fresh pair of eyes to.

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    Thanks Bob for the file.

    You need to change in the camera menu: Page 200 of the manual, Colour Space from sRGB to Adobe RGB, your not alone it having this setting and I think you are seventh this year that has had this setting. No need either to have it set to Silent Mode.
    Last edited by Steve Kaluski; 05-28-2019 at 02:19 PM.

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    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    I will try to keep things simple here Bob.

    - Change Colour space in the camera menu
    - You needed a faster SS, the image isn't as critically sharp where it should be
    - More depth of field
    - The image is at least two thirds under exposed, shoot ETTR and enable 'blinkies' which will show 'blown highlights' albeit they are not, plus the preview you will see is only a JPEG the Raw generates. Yes things like water splashes will show blinks and yes they are blown, but that is in their nature, but each scene is different, however don't ignore, just be aware
    - Having taken the file into LR the initial WB is WB 6900 Tint +6 this would be your starting point with a mid grey and the RGB channels all showing 50/50/50 this then allows you to go warmer or cooler dependent on your recollection and then generally Colour manage via HSL & PSCC
    - This is FF, with initial sharpening and NR

    Bob, just double checked the info panel again and you have it correctly set to Raw, so just change Colour profile. I was toggling between info panel, DPP and writing this, plus reprocessing so sorry for the confusion. Luckily Andreas made me recheck.
    Hope this helps.

    Steve
    Last edited by Steve Kaluski; 05-28-2019 at 03:19 PM.

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    Steve as far as i know ... the color space does have no impact on image quality , as long it is in raw stage . It takes place when you develop it .... meaning you send the file to PS . At least this is my point of knowledge ....if i am wrong , please let me know .

    Cheers Andreas

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    Well as far as I know Colour Space should be set to Adobe RGB and worth changing for processing. Just double checked on the setting info Andreas and yes RAW is selected, so all is good there, as previous files folk have had it set to sRGB, not Raw.
    Last edited by Steve Kaluski; 05-28-2019 at 03:13 PM.

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    I agree if you want to process the image further , but you can set the parameters to whatever you like , in the raw converter everything can be changed without any loss of quality .... as far as i know !!!!
    You and i are also changing color space from camera to PS .... as far as i know ... and changing back to another color space depending on the output ??!!!

    But would be interesting who is right ... or wrong . Just read an article not long ago about this , but for sure i do not know if this article was proven by experts ( real experts ) . At least the manufacturer should know !!!

    Sorry missed your PM .... so this comment is then rather useless ... more or less , but some might learn from it .

    And you might talk about that some folks set it to Jpeg instead of Raw ??!!

    Cheers Andreas
    Last edited by Andreas Liedmann; 05-28-2019 at 03:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas Liedmann View Post
    Hi Bob ... by haloing i talked about fancy things going along edges in some areas of the image .

    For illustration my RP , surprised to see that an image can be that strong processed in Lightroom .

    Cheers Andreas
    Andreas--Those thin lines along the rim of the whippy white branches in the BG that you draw pointers to are present on the RAW and just get accentuated during processing---I can't figure out exactly what step caused them to become more prominent and don't know why they are there at all.As to the lack of detail on the black stump is that not just a function of the depth of field arising from this lens and the distance of the stump behind the point I was focusing on, namely the face.

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    I've change it, as I was spinning plates toggling between here and the DPP info panel.

    Yes I do change the Profile because I don't like how LR portrays the initial file when imported because the default profile is too Saturated and Contrasty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    I've change it, as I was spinning plates toggling between here and the DPP info panel.

    Yes I do change the Profile because I don't like how LR portrays the initial file when imported because the default profile is too Saturated and Contrasty.
    " I don't like how LR portrays the initial file when imported because the default profile is too Saturated and Contrasty." Steve, could that be because I've got LR set to process in proPhoto colour space (per a recommendation I got from I've forgotten where because it has a larger colour space than the other two )?

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    Hi Bob , ProPhotoRGB is one of the best profiles , IMHO, as you can work better on the colors because the color space has a wider range to work with .

    AS you can see in Stevens RP ....there are no such halos as showing up in your OP . Always check the changes when doing something to the image , split view is good option in LR .

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    Here is an article about color space ... might help

    https://www.the-ninth.com/blog/proph...-image-editing

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    Hi Bob, without getting too bog down, it would be good if you can take screen grabs of the various Modules in LR to show the changes you have made and then if it's not to time consuming, just in simple bullet points what you may have done after exporting to PS as this may shed some light into why there isn't much detail in the OP, irrespective of DoF, as personally I think it stems from too much NR. Then, if you can email me the items that would be good.

    I do think from the images posted you are under exposing, plus changing the LR Colour Profile we will begin to make ground up quickly. If you can really push on getting to grips with ETTR and reading the histogram, the better the file you will have, NEVER use the screen to approve the image, use it only to check for distracting elements or framing, never for colour or exposure. Having a lighter, brighter file exposed as far as you can to the RHS without clipping is the way to go, because you can always darken it, if you have a dark file where you need to lift - lighten it, you are already on the back foot. The 1DX MKII has about a stop to play with, but it just depends on the file.

    Finally, just be sparring in using Contrast, Blacks & Clarity within LR as the trick is to retain as much Midtone in an image as possible, because that is where all your details is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Hi Bob, without getting too bog down, it would be good if you can take screen grabs of the various Modules in LR to show the changes you have made and then if it's not to time consuming, just in simple bullet points what you may have done after exporting to PS as this may shed some light into why there isn't much detail in the OP, irrespective of DoF, as personally I think it stems from too much NR. Then, if you can email me the items that would be good.

    I do think from the images posted you are under exposing, plus changing the LR Colour Profile we will begin to make ground up quickly. If you can really push on getting to grips with ETTR and reading the histogram, the better the file you will have, NEVER use the screen to approve the image, use it only to check for distracting elements or framing, never for colour or exposure. Having a lighter, brighter file exposed as far as you can to the RHS without clipping is the way to go, because you can always darken it, if you have a dark file where you need to lift - lighten it, you are already on the back foot. The 1DX MKII has about a stop to play with, but it just depends on the file.

    Finally, just be sparring in using Contrast, Blacks & Clarity within LR as the trick is to retain as much Midtone in an image as possible, because that is where all your details is.
    Firstly, my apologies to all for delay in responding--I've been overwhelmed by a yard reconstruction project the last few days. Secondly, thank you all for the effort you've put into discussing this image and your efforts to advise me---it obviously very time consuming and is much appreciated. Steve I've sent the requested screen shots of LR sliders for the OP . I don't use PS so what you see is what you get. I'll be interested to hear if you think this is underexposed ---it does extend into the right side altho the bulk of the exposure is on the dark side . When I look back at the original exposure I can see how I've wrecked it by pushing so many elements of the image to the dark side---a nasty tendency of mine it appears, arising from the fact, I suppose, that I do like dark contrasty images. I am not unaware of the ETTR concept and do use the history not the back screen when assessing my exposures in the field and will be interested to hear if you think this exposure is under exposed or if it's just the PP that wrecked it.

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    Hi Bob, yes I have got the grabs and busily responding. I will endeavour to find Artie's ETTR, but once you get the hang of it it will become easier to shoot and ultimately you will get far better results. In addition, by only using LR you will not be able to do a huge amount to the file as it's a little limiting, so my advice would be to master ETTR, get to grips with LR and then think about using the Adobe Cloud and buy into the purchase of LR & PSCC on a monthly basis to expand your Post Production of images.

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