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Thread: I need help with ID

  1. #1
    BPN Viewer Adams Serra's Avatar
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    Default I need help with ID

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    I have not had the chance to post lately, i am down in Brasil now trying to finish a house that we started 15 months ago, we are almost at the end.
    I photographed this raptor a few days ago he was circleing on top and suddenly he went straight down like a rocket,when he came back up he had a prey and a American Kestrel chaseing him away.

    Thak you for the Help

  2. #2
    Steve Foss
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    This looks to me like a white-tailed hawk (Buteo albicaudatus).

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    Jury is still out on this as my Princeton Illustrated Checklist, which covers southern Brazil, shows the White-tailed Hawk with a white throat and barred belly. Otherwise very similar though. What part of Brazil are you in?
    Last edited by John Chardine; 06-29-2008 at 07:40 PM.

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    BPN Viewer Adams Serra's Avatar
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    I am in southeast Brasil in a State called Minas Gerais.

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    Swainson's Hawk by its identifying features.

    Here is a range map and info.

    http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Conservati...n's%20Hawk
    Last edited by James Prudente; 06-30-2008 at 11:05 AM.

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    I don't think so - The shape and detailed field marks are wrong for Swainson's. I have seen White-tailed in Mexico and Central America, and that rather stubby shape with broad wings and a short, wide tail is fairly characteristic. All the other field marks fit adult White-tailed, and the nominate race, that occurs in S.Brazil, has a dark chin (Raptors of the World , Ferguson-Lees. Plate 69). The only anomaly is the fact that the flanks (not the belly) are normally barred, but that may not necessarily show in contrasty light. I can't see any other raptor that otherwise fits this bird.

    Richard

    Richard
    Last edited by Richard Stern; 06-30-2008 at 09:25 PM.

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    Thanks Richard and Steve for getting this one. Moral is- don't believe everything in your field guide!

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    BPN Viewer Adams Serra's Avatar
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    Thank you all the forum menbers for the help
    I will post another picute later of the same bird.

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    BPN Member Paul Lagasi's Avatar
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    White Tailed Hawk no doubt...adult female.....swainsons has more black on underwings.
    Last edited by Paul Lagasi; 07-03-2008 at 05:08 PM.

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    Sorry but this is not a White Tailed Hawk, look at the neck.

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    That's what I was thinking originally Juan Carlos- my field guide shows a white throat for the White-tailed Hawk, not the chocolate collar that the bird in the image has. Anyway I just assumed my field guide was inaccurate. However, what else could it be? My guide, which covers southern Brazil has no hawk that looks exactly like the one in the image posted by Adams.

  12. #12
    Shawn Marques
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    After checking out the variations of both the Swainson's hawk and white-tailed hawk, only the white-tailed has this colored tail with the bar along the edge. Otherwise, it seems they can have a lot of similarities.

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    Hi again,

    I think this is an example of where it pays to read the blurb in the intro. to the better field guides, and to remember that field guides are just that - guides, and can't always show every variation or plumage of every bird. Some species have a single definitive field mark that distinguishes them from other similar species, but many hawks are notorious for racial, age and sexual variability. With respect, if every other field mark points to White-tailed Hawk, I think the right approach is to see if there is any situation where the neck color would still be consistent with that diagnosis, and indeed, in this species there is. Again, quoting Ferguson-Lees Raptors of the World, this time in the detailed text, the adult pale morph (which this bird presumably is) has dark cheeks and, variably, throat - and from below, sides of head ( and variably, chest sides and whole throat) dark gray to blackish. This text also goes into the details necessary to separate this species from other comnfusion species, including Swainson's, Harlan's, Red-backed and Gurney's Hawks.

    For me at least, the dark throat alone does not therefore negate my initial impression of an adult pale-morph White-tailed Hawk. Incidentally, in the various accounts I have found of this species, nowhere could I find any mention of sexual dimorphism.

    If anyone who has actually seen large numbers of known White-tailed Hawks in SE Brazil (in case the dark throat is more frequent in that location) would like to comment further and prove me wrong, I would be delighted to learn more.

    Richard

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    BPN Member Paul Lagasi's Avatar
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    Default RE: WhiteTailed Hawk

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    Just bought this book, very new with many detailed photos..the photo of White Tailed Hawk female clearly shows dark throat. Hope this helps..Paul

    Book these photos came from: Smithsonian Field Guide to The Birds of North America, 2008 Edition

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    Perfect Paul. Thanks a lot.

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    BPN Viewer Adams Serra's Avatar
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    Thank you Paul and all the forum menber

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