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Thread: Surf Scoter on a budget, sort of.........

  1. #1
    BPN Member Dorian Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Surf Scoter on a budget, sort of.........

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    Going to the vault since continued terrible weather/light has kept me trapped in my apartment for almost the last month. Ugh. New Zealand in 24 days though!

    This was from my kayak in November of 2017 (and before I joined this board).

    Canon 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 IS II on EOS 7D2
    1/4000 at f/5.6, ISO 400 - Was set-up for whites, so blacks are a touch dark
    Processed in LR CC without trickery

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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    nice pose Dorian, I like the trailing water drops and the down stroke. This one needs a bit more sharpening and maybe try to get more details from the darkest blacks.

    TFS
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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi Dorian, love the low POV and kudos in shooting from a kayak, but there is very little detail in the darks to give shape & form and the sea colour looks a bit OTT, way to saturated, even to give some 'punch & oomph'.

    Was set-up for whites, so blacks are a touch dark
    Providing the Raw isn't too pushed, opening up the darks & shadows should be OK, and the ISO was only at 400.

    Even with just 256 colours processed for me via LR & PSCC2019, you can begin to see the detail you originally captured especially in the bill Dorian. The Blacks & Darks are controlled (not washed out, thin or flat) which brings out more of the depth in the plumage/wings and as Arash mention, a bit more sharpening helps too. Is this FF or cropped, you don't mention.

    TFS
    Steve
    Last edited by Steve Kaluski; 02-04-2019 at 04:00 AM.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Processed in LR CC
    Dorian, a quick question as I assume you are using the latest version of LR, in the Development Module where it says PROFILE in the Basics panel, what do currently have it set to?

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    Lifetime Member gail bisson's Avatar
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    It isn't very often that we see a flight shot of a surf scoter.
    Nice wing position.
    I agree that the head needs sharpening and the blacks need to be lifted. Steve's repost is certainly showing you the way!
    I used to think that the images from this area of California had abnormally saturated colored blue water but having been there last year, I know that the water is very blue compared to our Nova Scotia seas.
    Looking forward to your repost.
    Gail
    PS Have a great time in NZ. I loved the scenery. Birding photography was tough - I did it all on my own with no "connections".
    Last edited by gail bisson; 02-04-2019 at 07:44 AM.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    I agree that the head needs sharpening and the blacks need to be lifted. Steve's repost is certainly showing you the way!
    Thank you Gail, it's no way 'definitive' it can't be, especially working with an sRGB 256 colour image, but for me, it shows even with a tiny image like this, there is a lot hidden in the RAW. I also be keen to know the Profile Dorian has LR set at, as this could also highlight an issue at the start I think.

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Both look fine to me but the pupil is certainly sharper in the repost. I love the wing position.
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    I basically thought the exact same thing that Arash said. Needs a little more sharpening and you need more from the blacks. The repost looks absolutely nothing like what a Surf Scoter looks like in deep blue water. It looks washed out and practically devoid of color. The blacks look gray and the deep blue water looks gray as well. I know we have been through this many times but I can not for the life of me get why anyone would take a jet black bird and make it gray and at the same time take all of the deep blacks out of a deep black bird. Yes you can see a bit more detail in the blacks but it does not look like a jet black duck over the Pacific. Nor does it have the same dimensions to the image. When you lose the deepest darks and the lightest lights you are left with shades of gray which is about the opposite of what a Surf Scoter over the Pacific in sunlight looks like. I would suggest going back to the RAW and lifting the exposure on the image somewhere between 1/3rd and 1/2 stop, I would remove maybe 5-10 points of saturation from the water. Then in PS I would run some detail extractor on the bird at maybe 25 or 30% and I would smart sharpen just a touch. Say 50% and .3. I think that would finish this one off nicely and stay true to what a Surf Scoter looks like.

    By the way, I have been considering buying a kayak. What do you use?

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    Gorgeous shot Dorian, and I would agree w Isaac, they are of course the jet black duck. Wonderful work.

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    Macro and Flora Moderator Jonathan Ashton's Avatar
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    A great shot but I think the saturation is too high and possibly contrast. The darkest plumage is choked. I agree the blacks will be dark but to my knowledge there are no absolutely black birds, the black in birds is produced in various combinations of carotenoids and melanins - non of which are black, it is their combination that give the illusion of black.

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    Story Sequences Moderator and Wildlife Moderator Gabriela Plesea's Avatar
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    Hello Dorian,

    This is a species I have never seen or even heard of before, very cute looking bird. Wondering how you manage to shoot from a kayak, wow

    Great techs, subject looks tack sharp, nice POV and head angle is perfect. As well as wing position. Good framing too.

    I also find the colours a little "intense" so to speak but delighted to see from Steve's RP there is plenty of detail to be extracted.

    Very nice work, Dorian. I shall pop in again to view your images, looking forward to see what you bring from New Zealand, hope you have a wonderful trip

    Kind regards,
    Gabriela Plesea

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    Head looks sharper on the repost. I see the color difference.

    Have not see the bird in real life so I saw which represents the bird better.

    Love the image and wing position.

    TFS

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    The pose is nice also like the water. Interesting looking bird.

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    BPN Member Dorian Anderson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Dorian, a quick question as I assume you are using the latest version of LR, in the Development Module where it says PROFILE in the Basics panel, what do currently have it set to?
    Hi Steve - I can't find anything that says PROFILE in the basics panel, but I'm fairly useless with LR!

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    BPN Member Dorian Anderson's Avatar
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    OK, thanks for the suggestions. Here is a rework incorporating the following 3 suggestions: 1) more sharpening 2) less saturated blue 3) Lifting exposure/black. I've pushed the black as much as I want. Anything more will render a bird as naturally black as charcoal briquette something it isn't. I'm no so concerned with micro-detail as the overall feeling of the bird.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi Dorian the RP looks better.

    I can't find anything that says PROFILE in the basics panel, but I'm fairly useless with LR!
    Dorian this is what I was referring too, I think you may have it set to this default Adobe colour which is less than ideal IMHO, especial when you consider LR already adds a truck load of Contrast behind the scenes before you even start processing these days. Even in the Sharpening Module, it has already added some additional sharpening to the default settings depending on the camera used, so it's not truly 25 or 40 that it indicates.

    Just my take, all the best.

    Steve

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    BPN Member Dorian Anderson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Hi Dorian the RP looks better.



    Dorian this is what I was referring too, I think you may have it set to this default Adobe colour which is less than ideal IMHO, especial when you consider LR already adds a truck load of Contrast behind the scenes before you even start processing these days. Even in the Sharpening Module, it has already added some additional sharpening to the default settings depending on the camera used, so it's not truly 25 or 40 that it indicates.

    Just my take, all the best.

    Steve
    Whatever I'm using doesn't have that.....

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Whatever I'm using doesn't have that.....
    What version are you running, that latest is 8.1.

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    Much much better Dorian. Repost has better details and isn't a charcoal briquette

  20. #20
    BPN Member Dorian Anderson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    What version are you running, that latest is 8.1.
    I think I am still running the Classic version from 2015. I suck at computers which is odd given
    I grew up with them. Too much time drinking, DJing, and doing cocaine in my 20s when I should
    have been computering, I guess......

    I don't even understand the difference between the CC Classic Version and the straight CC version....
    Last edited by Dorian Anderson; 02-05-2019 at 12:25 PM.

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    Super Moderator Daniel Cadieux's Avatar
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    I'm late to the party, but the last repost nails it. Now off to dust off the snow on the BBQ and fire it up!

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