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Thread: Leveret ,Brown hare UK. Lepus europeas

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    Default Leveret ,Brown hare UK. Lepus europeas

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    First apologies for my absence tis very very hard not being here more oft. Much graft as I chase the dream

    A backlit youngster running a wheel track, a pause for me and the image that arose. It made me think much this about how easily this might become a set up shot,this being part ambush part stalk.
    Anyway as time is pressing I wanted to get at least one image into the theme, for this month.Most sincere thanks all, for the guidance on my previous posts.My most humble apologies for brevity

    Canon1Div 300f2.8is ext 1.4iii UNCROPPED HH lying prone off elbows edited in canons DPP4.6

    ss1.1250
    f/5.6
    iso 3200

    take care all

    Stu

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    Lifetime Member Rachel Hollander's Avatar
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    Hi Stu - Good to see you posting again. Nice low angle and sharpness looks good. However, I wouldn't really call this backlit. It looks like the hare is completely in shade. A few problems with the image for me. It is underexposed. The head is angled slightly away rather than toward the camera. My biggest issue though is the oof foliage on the rhs and below. It is a bit too dominant for me. Sorry.

    TFS,
    Rachel

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi Stu, nice capture, great POV and nice techs. Perhaps moving a fraction to the right may have helped, but then you might have spooked the subject, but like Joe's image good fieldcraft here. DOF looks cracking with some lovely bokeh enveloping the subject and the path I feel just adds to the scene.

    Yes, the image is under exposed perhaps by about 2/3 of a stop, (check your histogram on the camera, however your SS would have dropped if you increased the EV), but then you also need to address the WB, two areas I feel you can improve in quite easily here Stu, but when did you last calibrate your monitor? Personally I think with some careful tweaking you could get a lot more, however I fully appreciate the limitations of both Software & Skillset here, however Stu it's still great to see you progressing and improving with each posting.

    As presented the FG is a bit dominant as Rachel mentioned, however with a simple recrop that can be addressed quite easily. Here you can up the saturation and some key/main colour to breathe some more life back into the capture and yes understanding Curves, Layers & Masks helps, (something for the future), but I just wanted to illustrate nothing is lost from the capture, it does have a great deal of potential and when you have more under your belt Stu I would seriously revisit the image, it's a cracker.

    BTW having a massive clear out, so will pop some literature in the post to you which may help.

    TFS
    Steve

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    Nice image Stu, good low angle and details in the subject. Steve has taken this up & added some POP to it. Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel Hollander View Post
    Hi Stu - Good to see you posting again. Nice low angle and sharpness looks good. However, I wouldn't really call this backlit. It looks like the hare is completely in shade. A few problems with the image for me. It is underexposed. The head is angled slightly away rather than toward the camera. My biggest issue though is the oof foliage on the rhs and below. It is a bit too dominant for me. Sorry.

    TFS,
    Rachel
    Rachel as always I value deeply your honesty, good or bad matters not thank you!! Yes she is in the shade and yes I guess no isn't really back lit,maybe poor wording on my part Rachel,basically I was refering to light coming from behind. It's a shame it doesn't work for you,it's cool though as I said I value your honesty!! I actually really like this one
    exposure was a struggle my inexperience showing

    Thanks muchly for taking the time mate, hope you are well

    stu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Hi Stu, nice capture, great POV and nice techs. Perhaps moving a fraction to the right may have helped, but then you might have spooked the subject, but like Joe's image good fieldcraft here. DOF looks cracking with some lovely bokeh enveloping the subject and the path I feel just adds to the scene.

    Yes, the image is under exposed perhaps by about 2/3 of a stop, (check your histogram on the camera, however your SS would have dropped if you increased the EV), but then you also need to address the WB, two areas I feel you can improve in quite easily here Stu, but when did you last calibrate your monitor? Personally I think with some careful tweaking you could get a lot more, however I fully appreciate the limitations of both Software & Skillset here, however Stu it's still great to see you progressing and improving with each posting.

    As presented the FG is a bit dominant as Rachel mentioned, however with a simple recrop that can be addressed quite easily. Here you can up the saturation and some key/main colour to breathe some more life back into the capture and yes understanding Curves, Layers & Masks helps, (something for the future), but I just wanted to illustrate nothing is lost from the capture, it does have a great deal of potential and when you have more under your belt Stu I would seriously revisit the image, it's a cracker.

    BTW having a massive clear out, so will pop some literature in the post to you which may help.

    TFS
    Steve
    Steve very cool edit bless ya mate, oh and for the clear out offer thank you buddy so kind!! Steve me not being here as I'd like doesn't mean i'm not living this,just pressed tis all I am going to have the tools but it's all hours to earn the pennies


    Right, to the image: first, exposure, it was a struggle Steve !! The light from behind really quite strong,I feel my ability was found wanting here.But that said I feel I might do exactly the same again again. The RAW un edited image I have blinkies on the whiskers . I was trying to step just inside that,concerned about blowing the outer lit edges of the hare. I feel after both your and Rachel's posts my evaluation of the histogramme needs to be questioned. I felt I had it right Steve and feel strongly I would take the exact same step again,this worries me Steve,it really does . I need to learn how to show a screen shot as a first step for you good folks to evaluate if needed. The histogramme goes right into the far box,granted the very bright sunlight rape in flower(top right) would be inpart resonsibe for the right section of the histo being occupied. But as I say blinkies on the whiskers made me feel I was in the ball park and shouldn't push further. No doubt my failing and I freely admit this one was testing for me. I ,as you so rightly state I was also concerned on SS.

    Ha, all the work put into these guys meant,I had time to frame better Steve my failing again,not negative Steve I'm loving learning nowt will stop me or get me down for long just trying to be honest ,it helps you help me. I won't learn nowt be not declaring when I feel I could have done better or a situation like this where anyone else might simply only get chance for one or two frames,hehe sure it was tricky being half in a rut and half not,but that's another story

    Steve I'm uncalibrated,my monitor seems to need specific tools to calibrate,i'm a bit stumped by this at the mo.Mike's even offered to help me,but I simply haven't got there yet. Until that day comes like everything really I bank the RAWS and graft with hope,but DO UTTERLY understand the importance of this.

    This shows in your repost,you have nailed the deeply out of focus sunlit rape flower top right ,but had no knowledge of what exactly was there. Steve my monitor isn't far off as above I get the importance,but what is showing here is again my failing i've deliberately made the WB choice and gone too far in trying to cool the image,via colour temp,the minute I saw your repost I knew it

    Buddy this sounds like a torrent of negativity,it utterly is not (maybe I'm a bit brutal with me,that won't change) I really like this one, also like the images of other chap that followed this, was chuffed to bits with some of the frames when I got home and looked at them. Points about FRG taken on board,but i'm very close to the kidlet. I posted the whole frame I do realise I can crop a little bit here if needed. It isn't my end goal though to crop Steve,i'm still chasing the dream of getting it right in camera.

    Buddy as always my imense gratitude

    stu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjeev Aurangabadkar View Post
    Nice image Stu, good low angle and details in the subject. Steve has taken this up & added some POP to it. Cheers.
    many thanks Sanjeev... yes he has....he's too clever for his own socks,don't tell him though


    stu

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    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
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    Hey Stu great use of DOF right on the money ...!!!!!
    Love the look into the image , stop at the subject and fade out into the endless looking BG .....!!! Very well done in the field , Stu.
    Steve has given you a right direction where the image could go ...but i would prefer a bit less of it in terms of warmth , for me the yellows are a bit too dominant .
    Very well done ...keep them coming.
    TFS Andreas

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi Stu, thanks for the reply and expanding on things, it really does help and gives a greater insight to the image and your thinking. I'm a bit hammered at present with time and over the next 4+ months it's only going to get worse because of renovations, however...

    I feel after both your and Rachel's posts my evaluation of the histogramme needs to be questioned. I felt I had it right Steve and feel strongly I would take the exact same step again,this worries me Steve,it really does .
    Stu, the thing to remember is that anyone who replies is basing their comments on the posting, without sight of the original and so we are making assumptions right or wrong on the posting, but what would be a great help is if you can forward the Raw to me via email. In that way I can be far more 'specific' in key answers for you, if that's OK.

    Stu, look back a year ago and how far you have come now, impressive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Hi Stu, thanks for the reply and expanding on things, it really does help and gives a greater insight to the image and your thinking. I'm a bit hammered at present with time and over the next 4+ months it's only going to get worse because of renovations, however...



    Stu, the thing to remember is that anyone who replies is basing their comments on the posting, without sight of the original and so we are making assumptions right or wrong on the posting, but what would be a great help is if you can forward the Raw to me via email. In that way I can be far more 'specific' in key answers for you, if that's OK.

    Stu, look back a year ago and how far you have come now, impressive.
    Buddy I'd love to,send you the RAW. Very much though Steve if you have time(got me pressie cheers ) I will send ,but please no rush when you have a moment.

    Rachel has also sent me a little note. I think i've not really twigged that the outer really bright outline, whiskers etc, doesn't really hold detail . So my thinking on where is should base the exposure is out. Rather than my understanding the concept. But i'll send you the RAW. It is very important I get my exposures right especially with the light the wrong way around. I feel good exposure is probably even more crucial to us especially with our light Steve,where one is so often pushing iso for Ss etc

    That month with these hares did me much good Steve,being able to really graft at image making day in day out, was fantastic for me,it's hard going away from that..... I want this it's a hard slow road . But fair play, you are all incredibly talented photographers and teachers i've just had the sense to recognise that and tried to adsorb as much as possible. Bless ya all there is no way I'd have got anywhere near his without you guys . I just wish I wasn't so slow buddy but hey ho we are winning and I'm still loving this

    I hope you get through being renovated,always thought you were a young sprightly thing didn't see that coming

    thanks buddy ,

    stu

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    Story Sequences Moderator and Wildlife Moderator Gabriela Plesea's Avatar
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    Wow Stu, great thinking out there in the field and some nice techs, mate I agree with comments above, DoF rocks! Wonderful mood and feel to this frame, this is where your arty side comes through, very well done.

    Steve's RP brings out more detail on the subject as well as some lovely colours and tonality. I did try an RP but mine doesn't come close to his:)

    Really happy for you my friend, I guess you realise now how far you've come and how much you have achieved in so little time, I am ecstatic with your progress - keep up the good work

    Kind regards,
    Gabriela Plesea

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas Liedmann View Post
    Hey Stu great use of DOF right on the money ...!!!!!
    Love the look into the image , stop at the subject and fade out into the endless looking BG .....!!! Very well done in the field , Stu.
    Steve has given you a right direction where the image could go ...but i would prefer a bit less of it in terms of warmth , for me the yellows are a bit too dominant .
    Very well done ...keep them coming.
    TFS Andreas
    Actually I did wonder on the yellows the rape is right but yup with fresher eyes today,I see it. I think my WB on the original was poorly chosen now,should have done better!! This is what is so awesome here Andreas honest thoughts and opinions to ponder

    sorry buddy hey Andreas

    Thanks for the kind words,there is something lovely about these low close rut(wheel rut...tracks left by farm tractors) shots, if I get dof right Andreas. I have lots of them ok I make lots dof not always right But yes I understand why I am drawn to them. Add in a brow of a hill and things can be quite special. This is why this image made me think about set up shots Andreas,in so much as working out places where one might make an image that maybe could be more than just a portrait with a more simple boken type bkg Almost an oof animal scape if you like. If one gets the rut right it leads the eye so well,but they are tricky to make as half of me is up and half down in the track.

    Thank you for the kind words and the huge help you have been

    stu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriela Plesea View Post
    Wow Stu, great thinking out there in the field and some nice techs, mate I agree with comments above, DoF rocks! Wonderful mood and feel to this frame, this is where your arty side comes through, very well done.

    Steve's RP brings out more detail on the subject as well as some lovely colours and tonality. I did try an RP but mine doesn't come close to his:)

    Really happy for you my friend, I guess you realise now how far you've come and how much you have achieved in so little time, I am ecstatic with your progress - keep up the good work

    Kind regards,
    Lovely words Gabby ,thank you,had some help though ,bless you for being so inspiring Sorry not being about, hope things are not tooooo hectic for you. Cheers for the repost effort too. I think so much is almost sub- concious with me at this stage Gabby regarding the art, I'm trying to get focus think about techs exposureetc etc like we all do . Then I get home and a penny drops or I sort of realise what my gut instincts were leading me towards. It's difficult to articulate and quite strange really. But this set of frames (a larger hare followed,it was awesome),really stopped me made me think. They have been a terrific learning curve,the ability to see that base image and go back try again maybe hone it has helped me beyond the tech side of things..

    Thanks again hope you are well I've got a break more beckon
    best always
    stu

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi Stu, thanks for the file.

    Now I have imported the file into both LR & DPP, but in DPP all I did was get the eyedropper for the WB and clicked it on the closest area that looked white (see arrow) and also hit Fine detail and then Exported it, just two commands an 'Voila'. No Curves, Colour, complicated masks & layers or NR, this is straight from those two inputs. Histogram looks OK, yes you could have gone a third of a stop without blowing the whites, but the RAW is showing nothing blown. Obviously if you wish you can do more, but compared to the OP there is a big difference, so initial feedback is keep it simple .

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Stu, I'm sending the file to Andreas too, as he is better than I am at looking at it in DPP, but my feeling is the camera is front focusing based on the legs. If so, then I will get you to change something in the menu having looked at the manual (P221).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Hi Stu, thanks for the file.

    Now I have imported the file into both LR & DPP, but in DPP all I did was get the eyedropper for the WB and clicked it on the closest area that looked white (see arrow) and also hit Fine detail and then Exported it, just two commands an 'Voila'. No Curves, Colour, complicated masks & layers or NR, this is straight from those two inputs. Histogram looks OK, yes you could have gone a third of a stop without blowing the whites, but the RAW is showing nothing blown. Obviously if you wish you can do more, but compared to the OP there is a big difference, so initial feedback is keep it simple .
    Thanks Steve good to know about the exposure not being as far out as I felt it was. WB is a cras error on my part Steve,I've got to wrapped up in canon's warmth and gone way too far the other way I know better mate,know the cause too,but i'm very grateful that this has been pointed out !!! Colour of hare is better than previous edits too,i'll go back to this shortly,but huge thanks for the help.

    stu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Stu, I'm sending the file to Andreas too, as he is better than I am at looking at it in DPP, but my feeling is the camera is front focusing based on the legs. If so, then I will get you to change something in the menu having looked at the manual (P221).
    bless you mate Andreas is a complete star with DPP i'd love his thoughts
    MFA I felt I was good on the 1.4 Steve i'll look into this asap,hoping I might have a bit of time this week
    cheers

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi Stu, remember the RP from me was based from your original, so with hindsight it is off.

    I personally think you are trying to over complicate things in your Workflow, keep your WB to Auto until such times as your monitor is regularly calibrated, as the shifts say from Daylight to Shade etc can be misleading for you without a good monitor, but yes use the eyedropper once you are in DPP. Tracking sensitivity has come a long way from the MKIV, but just remember what you are setting things to, as you may find a minus setting is not as good for a moving target, compared to a fixed target. The closer you are the more DoF you need, therefore if something is moving towards you, pre set you settings, so as you track it, as it gets to within 'framing' you are good to go. Plus, everything needs to work faster as it moves towards you.

    No idea when Andreas may come back with his thoughts sadly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Hi Stu, remember the RP from me was based from your original, so with hindsight it is off.

    I personally think you are trying to over complicate things in your Workflow, keep your WB to Auto until such times as your monitor is regularly calibrated, as the shifts say from Daylight to Shade etc can be misleading for you without a good monitor, but yes use the eyedropper once you are in DPP. Tracking sensitivity has come a long way from the MKIV, but just remember what you are setting things to, as you may find a minus setting is not as good for a moving target, compared to a fixed target. The closer you are the more DoF you need, therefore if something is moving towards you, pre set you settings, so as you track it, as it gets to within 'framing' you are good to go. Plus, everything needs to work faster as it moves towards you.

    No idea when Andreas may come back with his thoughts sadly.
    Andreas has helped me so much Steve i'll never be able to repay him or you for that matter,I don't expect to be helped,just grateful mate but he's very busy right now.
    Yes understood first line
    Steve WB I never use presets, camera set to daylight Base workflow assess WB,if needed use eye dropper, if still not happy,use colourtemp slider in kelvin . Steve there are some great words of advice above,I know I'll read many times but I find the presets way to coarse to use anyway and would rather not use auto. Simply i'd rather control everything I'll make more mistakes,but I'll learn faster long term this way,provided this workflow isn't fundamentally wrong for WB.

    Steve as before I've become to wrapped up in warmth and made a gross error with this frame. i'm very grateful it's been picked up on but I don't personally think it's my monitor which isn't right but it is close. This is my error Steve i've overcompensated probably because the shift was so great when using the eye dropper initially and as before i've become too hung up on warmth

    Cheers for the note on minus setting, shot at -1 i'm not completely happy as you have picked up on!! DOF ,understood. Prediction of where a shot might happen and techs for that is in hand Steve. It is something I do ,but not at every time by any means,but yes I am thinking.

    It's coming mate just doesn't help when I make blunders like this one,but I learn much from said blunders so it's all good

    Buddy thank you so much for your time,I needed to reply but didn't want to stray too far hope this is ok

    stu

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    Hi Stu, in the camera menu your camera in the WB menu is set on Daylight, change it to Auto. Once you become more attuned to lighting you can change the settings if you wish, or just change them in the DPP menu, but I personally choose Auto and the always reassess the WB irrespective at PP.

    Simply i'd rather control everything I'll make more mistakes,but I'll learn faster long term this way,provided this workflow isn't fundamentally wrong for WB.
    Yep, fine.

    It's coming mate just doesn't help when I make blunders like this one,but I learn much from said blunders so it's all good
    Stu, you are not making blunders, but if you make mistakes which we all do, providing you can learn and resolve things for next time then it's all positive.

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    Thanks Steve blunder because I should have had this much nearer first time...and know it,but yes the man who never made a mistake never did anything. All is positive Steve here's a repost to see if I can do a bit better this time

    WB adjusted yellow sat and orange sat pulled back slightly overal sat boosted slightly tone adjusted to the red side again slight, cropped for compName:  _70F3622.JPG
Views: 29
Size:  163.4 KB

    Thanks for the guidance

    stu

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Great Stu, now you have more under your belt, looking forward to seeing some more 'Watership Down', so now lets build on the lessons, as you say.

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