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Thread: Bull Frog with Fly redux

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    Default Bull Frog with Fly redux

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    Today was my first free non-work day to start learning DPP4. I took my Bull Frog photo I posted here the other day but processed the RAW image in DPP4 rather than Lightroom. I'm not quite sure what I'm doing, but I wanted to post the result here for your comments and suggestions. One of the comments I received on the original one I posted (edited in LR) was a lack of tonal range. Is this any better?

    Canon 1 DX MKII
    Canon 400 f/4 DO II with 1.4 tc
    560mm
    1/500 sec.
    f/5.6
    f/640
    Manual
    Handheld
    Evaluative metering
    Last edited by Steve Kaluski; 07-02-2017 at 04:44 AM.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Today was my first free non-work day to start learning DPP4.
    Hi Melissa, I think this would be best suited for the Digital Photography Workflow as you wanting more specifics to the Processing rather than the critique of the image, so I will move it.

    As I asked on your previous image, what is the Colour Space set to in your camera and the 'Working Space' within LR/DPP?

    The image WB looks off and there is no real Tonal depth. As I don't use DPP I hope others who do will chime in.

    Steve

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    Sorry, I didn't see that. sRGB in both.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Sorry, I didn't see that. sRGB in both.
    So you are saying that both the camera and LR are set to sRGB as their 'Working Space'?

    So can I assume you only doing web & projected images, nothing for print etc?

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    Correct - I've only had one of my photos printed since I started in photography two+ years ago and that was for someone who requested it.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    If you are ONLY doing web images then your camera I feel is over speced for use, I would have gone for a 5D, or even a 7D MK2. In addition, if you only use images for web then why not shoot JPEG sRGB, saves on PP as you hardly need to process them, cuts down file size and storage space on both card & External storage devices, but try and go beyond that for print and this would be less than ideal.

    To get the best of both capture & processing you need to change both to Adobe RGB, but also correctly set the camera body up correctly too. I think you will find that this is why all images to date have lacked the 'true' data you should have had with RGB RAW and files are not 100%.

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    Macro and Flora Moderator Jonathan Ashton's Avatar
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    Melissa Hi, I would definitely go to your camera now if haven't already and set it to Adobe RGB. Then if not already set Lightroom or ACR to Adobe or ProPhoto RGB and 16bit per channel DPP also set to Adobe RGB (Preferences -Color management).
    The information available in these colour spaces is so much more than in SRGB, I know it can sound a little counter intuitive when you ultimately present your digital image as SRGB but believe me it it worth it.
    Unless you have your camera and software set optimally you will never realise their potential or your own or the potential of that very expensive equipment. Hope this helps - any questions just ask - I am sure there will be lots of answers from different people.

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    Steve, I also have the 7D mk ii. I'm not saying I will never print my photos, I just haven't done so to date. I've been told that unless I am printing my photos myself or I have a printing company specifically request RGB, I should only shoot in sRGB. So many great photographers with different opinions! It can get confusing and daunting! The subjects I attempt to capture are generally birds, especially birds in flight. The 1DX II can shoot 12-14 fps which is why Tin Man Lee told me to get it. My motive is to someday use my photos (obviously when I'm good enough) to illustrate the beauty of our planet and the necessity to protect it. I don't enter contests or choose to sell. I just want to show beauty and emotion. And, of course, there's nothing I would rather do than be out in nature with my camera.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    I've been told that unless I am printing my photos myself or I have a printing company specifically request RGB, I should only shoot in sRGB
    Well Melissa, if you are shooting in RAW and using LR, ACR or DPP then I'm afraid you have been given some very bad advice. All I am saying is that you should change to Adobe RGB now, leaving it in an sRGB Colour mode will be an issue both now and for the future. You are limiting you captures shooting in sRGB, but at the end of the day it's your call, we can only advise on what you should do.

    I just want to show beauty and emotion. And, of course, there's nothing I would rather do than be out in nature with my camera.
    Then there is no question, change the mode in camera and your Raw converter.

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    Steve & Jonathan, I took your advice and just changed my camera and LR to RGB! I'll be interested to see the difference. I haven't found where to do it yet in DPP4, but it can't be that hard. Thank you both!!!

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    Macro and Flora Moderator Jonathan Ashton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melissa Usrey View Post
    Steve & Jonathan, I took your advice and just changed my camera and LR to RGB! I'll be interested to see the difference. I haven't found where to do it yet in DPP4, but it can't be that hard. Thank you both!!!
    DPP4 (Preferences -Color management).

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    Thank you so much Jonathan!

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    BPN Member Don Lacy's Avatar
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    Attached Images Attached Images
     
     
     
     
     
    Hi Melissa, Just to be clear on the color space set your camera to adobe your workspace to adobe or pro and when you save for the web save the image to sRGB space i know it sounds complicated but trust me it is the best practice. As for the image there are two issues that I see first is the WB is way off and the image has a strong green color cast and the second the tonal values are flat. The first issue is a bit complicated to fix after the Raw conversion but the second one is rather easy. To fix the flat tonal values all you need to do is use a level adjustment or curve adjustment in PS set the black point, white point and mid points. The first image is the histogram from the raw conversion you can see the gaps from the edge of the box to where the tonal values start on the histogram. On most image you want to to have little to no gaps you will also notice the mid tone column is bunched up. The second image is the level adjustment you can see that I moved the black slider into the tones, the white slider to the beginning of the tones and middle slider slightly to the right, The third image is the histogram after the adjustment and you will now see that the tones stretched from one end of the box to the other and that the mid tone column is wider. As you can see after the tonal adjustment the color cast is even more evident to fix this I used a series of curve adjustments on each individual color channel I probably went to far into the blues but this should give you an ideal as to what the color should be. Now you can set the white and black points during the Raw conversion by adjusting the exposure, whites, and blacks sliders or you can do what you did here and get a good starting point and fine tuning in PS. So a couple of parting thoughts when setting your tonal values use the histogram as a guide but use a calibrated screen and your own eyes as the finale arbitrator as to what they should be each image is unique and so is each photographers artistic vision. The Raw conversion is only the first step and the image should be finished in PS or Lightroom. Do not feel overwhelmed processing is only as complicated as you want to make it the most important thing is to develop your own vision.
    Don Lacy
    You don't take a photograph, you make it - Ansel Adams
    There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs - Ansel Adams
    http://www.witnessnature.net/
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    Don, thank you. This has been VERY helpful! I guess I need to learn PS as well. I have the CC version but have only used it for the NIK filters. I'm learning DPP4 so PS is next on my list. I like your bluer version although the water was a terrible shade of green/brown muck. I do look at the histogram all the time when processing but did not know to have no gaps on either side of the spectrum. I just concentrated on the middle zone. Thank you so much again!!!

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    BPN Member Don Lacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melissa Usrey View Post
    Don, thank you. This has been VERY helpful! I guess I need to learn PS as well. I have the CC version but have only used it for the NIK filters. I'm learning DPP4 so PS is next on my list. I like your bluer version although the water was a terrible shade of green/brown muck. I do look at the histogram all the time when processing but did not know to have no gaps on either side of the spectrum. I just concentrated on the middle zone. Thank you so much again!!!
    The no gaps is just a guideline adjust them to what looks good to you in the end it is your image.
    Don Lacy
    You don't take a photograph, you make it - Ansel Adams
    There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs - Ansel Adams
    http://www.witnessnature.net/
    https://500px.com/lacy

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    I do look at the histogram all the time when processing but did not know to have no gaps on either side of the spectrum.
    The key point is to do it when you capture the image 'in camera' reading the Histogram and pushing things to the right - ETTR. Having a well exposed image is the bedrock of image capture.

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    I was just browsing the forum when I found this thread... since I am a Nikon shooter and do not have access to DPP, I have to ask this question about LR... How do you change the workspace color space to Adobe RGB in LR? I do shoot in Adobe RGB though.

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    Adhika, it's in the Export section. LR automatically defaults to RGB, but you can change it to sRGB.

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    Thanks Steve. I've been paying more attention to that!

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    Don, I have been adjusting my black and white sliders and colors as you suggested and it has been very helpful! Thank you again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melissa Usrey View Post
    Adhika, it's in the Export section. LR automatically defaults to RGB, but you can change it to sRGB.
    Melissa,

    Export color space is not the same as your working color space. As per Adobe's Lightroom Help page, Lightroom displays previews in ProPhoto RGB when in Develop module. Also if you are shooting RAW, the in-camera color space setting will not affect your processing color space because RAW files are just that: RAW files, i.e digitized photon counts (luminosity) after the Bayer filter. Setting the camera to wider color gamut will only help you display the color histogram in the camera's LCD more accurately as the LCD's histogram is the in-camera JPEG histogram.

    I think I am missing something from this thread. But I am not quite sure. Would love to know more about this...

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    Okay, well I have everything set to RGB now!

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    BPN Member Don Lacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melissa Usrey View Post
    Don, I have been adjusting my black and white sliders and colors as you suggested and it has been very helpful! Thank you again!
    The great benefit of shooting Raw is the ability to fine tune your images in post to your vision. Soon you will develop a look and style thats uniquely yours if you stay with it and keep learning. I often know who posted an image without looking at the posters name Ari, Steve, Artie, Daniel, and others all have a style and look to their images it is their photographic signature.
    Don Lacy
    You don't take a photograph, you make it - Ansel Adams
    There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs - Ansel Adams
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