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Lifetime Member
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BPN Member
Hi Loi did you mean Adrian or me , Andreas 
, for the pointer .
This frame is better for me on all counts !
Just asking curious .... have you dropped the sharpness in DPP .. i hope so as the preset of 4 with the fine detail picture style is waaaaay too strong for my taste .
Just for the sport ... could you fire me the raw ?
TFS Andreas
Last edited by Andreas Liedmann; 10-06-2016 at 01:35 PM.
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Hi Andreas, check your e mail. Dropped sharpness in DPP from 4 to 3 as per Arash's Guide. Glad you like the pic. Sorry about the mistype of your name! What was I thinking? Sun high and above the foliage in the BG, kitten was in the shade. Thank you. Loi
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Hi Loi -- Now this is getting better and better ! What a pose and you have improved over the last posting . I liked both the versions . the second one has a more inclusion of the diagonal FG branch , which is definitely a issue , but a wider view gives it nice space all around . The OP has the slightest of issue for me and that is the twig creeping in the FG , quite distracting it is but since you like to keep things as natural as possible then i am perfectly ok with it .
A fine fine image this is Loi !
TFS !
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I think cloning is an easy out. I attended a private reception last night in Los Angeles to help raise funds for a wildlife crossing across our freeways to allow mountain lions and other critters to safely move from one pocket of wild land to another. The speaker is Steve Winter whose image of a mountain lion with the Hollywood sign in the background made international headlines. It took him 2 years to get 2 good images. the mountain lion had a collar on its neck. It's very inspiring to hear his stories. Sure if we want a "perfect" image, it's easy to clone. But by cloning, we also lose something too. The authenticity of the image. It'd be hard to answer people's questions when they see a really good image "did you Photoshop it?" So for me, the more I value an image, the less I'm inclined to clone anything. It's just a personal thing.
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Post a Thank You. - 1 Thanks
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Yes Loi , I perfectly agree with your thought process and have no problem with it whatsoever . Many of us like to keep things as natural as possible and as you said it comes down to personal preference whether to keep a distracting element in a frame , whether that thing is adding anything to the image , etc , .
Also i thing " to photoshop it " is more of an engineering or rather a designers terminology , for us it should be post processing !
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Lifetime Member
Hi Loi - Agree with the others. The processing on this is much better than the previous post. Nice soft tones to it and that huge cuteness factor make it an image we would all love to have taken. The crop is a tough one. As you know, I agree about cloning and have long been a proponent of if it was there and is natural it stays.
TFS,
Rachel
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BPN Member
This is super cute and the soft light really helps.
I like the wider frame for the fact that there's more creamy bokeh to "frame" the kitten. The branches are not that distracting at all!
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Wildlife Moderator
Hi Loi, yep this frame is a killer and far better than the previous posting on all counts.
Andreas will be far better placed for DPP help, as I much prefer RAW's that resemble 'dull 'ditch water', in that way I control the Colour Management, not Canon or Adobe, as I like to have a clean 'palette' to work from.
Re 'cloning' it's an individual's take, yes I would without hesitation remove the light tip of that branch(?) creeping into frame from the RHS, it's just too distracting and it does IMHO detract from the Kitten, but it really would not change the overall capture/content, compare to i.e. dropping in a totally new background. You as I said, need to be governed by your own ethics and not swayed by others.
TFS
Steve
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Hi Loi, What a beautiful shot, love the comp, colors are just right for me, I like both images wider crop does give that bit of head room, I also agree with not cloning, seems to be a lot of people nit picking for the perfect image, if you look at just the cat that little branch disappears into the tree anyway. In all a great shot TY for sharing !!
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Wildlife Moderator
seems to be a lot of people nit picking for the perfect image
Brian, can you expand on this, can't anyone 'nit picking' as you call it? 
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Hi Steve, Tell me it's not true though, and I also would be glad to give you my thoughts about it in Priv. i'm not here to stir the pot, everyone ones allowed there opinion which I did that's all.
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Wildlife Moderator
Hi Steve, Tell me it's not true though,
Hi Brian, sorry I still cannot see who is 'nit picking' as you put it. To me the hint of branch creeping in, (in the OP is distracting and for me), it takes away the the direct linkage from the subjects eyes with the viewers, just my take. Perhaps if Loi moved to the right and was able to angle more to the left it may not have been in frame, but time was not on his side, nor could he be assured the Kitten would have fled if he moved, loosing any further captures.
This is an old 'chestnut' that surfaces on a regular basis and with constant updates in Software, it is becoming even more easier to manipulate an image, but it all comes down to personal choice, and to what degree, right or wrong. Cloning I agree can be a crutch and makes for a lazy photographer, but it also provides an option to those that wish to make a small manipulation if required.
I also agree with not cloning, seems to be a lot of people nit picking for the perfect image,
Interesting Brian as I see you are not adverse to removing the odd branch or two in your own images to highlight the subject more, but you say you would not clone, so when is any cloning acceptable, as I cannot see the difference in you own image and the removal of the hint of branch creeping in in Loi's image???
Rather than hi jacking this thread, by all means if you wish to expand your thoughts via a PM please feel free, but I'm not sure I can add much more.
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Story Sequences Moderator and Wildlife Moderator
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Hi Gabriella, I was handholding for this shot. The kitten stayed on the tree for a total of 4 minutes. I took a few safe shots from a far and at higher ISO 3200-5000. I waited for her relax before moving in closer. Only whe. I checked the LCD in the back that I saw in horrow that another branch actually blocked the kitten. I also took the opportunity to cut the ISO in half. I have shot plenty at ISO 3200 before, but those tend to be in good light. Here in the shade, I didn't want to lose too much details. The angle I chose was about as good as it gets as it allowed me to have a green BG. Moving towards the right would get the branch. More to the left would get highlights backlit sun. I didn't want to risk the kitten fleeing by moving too much either. The branch is an unfortunate, but there was no good way to avoid it. I have plenty of shots at 1/1000, f5.6, and ISO3200. Don't think it will be any sharper, but I can check. Thank you Gabriella. Back looking for the kitten now, but no sight of her. It was indeed a once in a life time opportunity. Loi
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Story Sequences Moderator and Wildlife Moderator
Dearest Loi,
Thank you so much for your reply
I fully appreciate the difficulties you encountered capturing those frames and I assure you I too have been there so many times. I often wished I had a garden tool to remove stuff that made my frames less than perfect:) Yes, frustrating to encounter obstacles when trying to capture special images, at the same time each and one of those instances bring valuable lessons. The other day I looked at images I shared in 2013 when I joined BPN, had a smile on my face when realising how much I have learnt since! Not just about processing, a lot has to do with work in the field. I remember at first I did not enjoy the critique that much, I felt the members did not understand the reasons why I couldn't do the right thing. I later understood a couple of basic things and they stuck with me until this day:
1. I watch that histogram in-between my shots, no matter what. Usually worried about blown HL (beyond recovery).
2. When not sure about DOF I experiment a lot because I like to have enough frames to choose from.
3. Not enough SS, no sharp images. At least for me. There are people out there who have a perfectly steady hand, I realise I am not one:)
4. At first I was prone to forget about the environment/surroundings when I focused on my subject, especially when I had a rare sighting. Just too much excitement. A lot of critique followed and it seemed to me at times unforgiving - the truth is, the more upsetting it was, the quicker I remembered things out there in the field:)
5. I personally do not look at the cloning issue as "ethics", to me it is about "aesthetics". Since I burn and dodge and alter colours and all that anyway, I feel that to some extent I have already altered the image. A controversial topic indeed and I am not going to try convince you of one thing or another. I just want to share with you something I have been thinking about: myself and Andre went together on a great number of trips for the past eight years and captured images of the same subjects. As soon as we returned home we would download and compare. You might be surprised to learn that no two images were the same, despite the fact that we captured them at precisely the same time and with the same equipment, ever so often from the same angle. I came to conclusion that it was all a matter of how we interpreted the scene and the two original, unaltered images a reflection of how we saw things. Our frames were not replicas of the scene itself, but rather examples of our own creativity and imagination in the field. In this computer saturated age, making use of cloning - to my mind - means correcting our mistakes in the field. I see it as an artistic skill right now, bear in mind I might change my mind the day I manage to shoot so well that the final product is virtually indistinguishable from the original but perfect in every way:)
Just my thoughts tonight and really up to you how you interpret them. I wrote this from the heart. I love your kitten image and really it depends how far you want to go with processing: if you decide to print, I think you ought to get rid of the branch. If you are just sharing, I can certainly live with it. Had you moved a tad to one side, we would not talk about this issue tonight. Or the kitten might have ran off and no image at all? I have no answers really, only questions:) Nevertheless, I so enjoyed viewing and your image certainly moved my mind, as I bring the notion of the original into question once again.
Warmest regards,
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Hi Gabriela, since you share your thoughts beyond the critique of the image, I'd also like to explain myself a little regarding the wyesyion of "to come or not to clone"
For me, removing a twig such as this one is not a big deal. We don't alter the image in a fundamental way. We are making art and there is no reason to debate the cloning. I'd remove it before printing too.
But for some other goals such as photojournalism or entering a contest or using the posting of the image to learn and push oneself further, I think it's invaluable to post the image without cloning. The hurt because of the imperfection stays with one longer and would serve as a stronger reminder for next time. This little twig already sparked the discussion and forced me to consider different crops for example.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments
Loi
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Story Sequences Moderator and Wildlife Moderator
Thank you dear Loi, I completely agree with you.
When I saw this lovely Bobcat I thought of a Wild Cat image I never shared because of a number of "imperfections". Every time I look through that folder I come across that frame and I want to delete it, but I won't. It is there to remind me I could have done things differently:)
I really enjoy your posts, and our conversations. I certainly look forward to more
Kind regards,
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Hi Loi,
I've shot our bobcat under the patio HH @ 1/80th @ Iso 400 and he's still very sharp maybe not tack sharp but very close, why so low, in my case I didn't want to be messing around with the Iso and miss out on the shot, dropped the SS instead and shot away, of course not all of the shots are sharp but at least a few were. If you can and the subject is not moving it can be done with a low SS maybe not the right way to do it but it can be done.
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Wonderful image and what an amazing opportunity! I was so captivated by the bobcat I didn't notice the branch until I read some of the comments. So I'm glad you left it in and adjusted the crop accordingly.
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