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Thread: Lioness up close

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    BPN Member Douglas Bolt's Avatar
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    Default Lioness up close

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    Lioness was very close to the van. Actually, a little too close for me. But, she didn't seem as concerned about us as I was about her. Captured on a Great Migration Wild-eye safari in August with Morkel and Gerry. Breathtaking experience each day.

    Canon 5DM3, Canon 70-200@200 f4@f5.6, 1/125s, ISO 2000, FF except crop to 4x5.
    Douglas Bolt
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    Lifetime Member Rachel Hollander's Avatar
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    Hi Doug - Yes, getting close to a lion can definitely take your breath away especially when they walk by closely and maintain eye contact. I wish you had not clipped the chin here and I also think you needed a bit more ss.

    TFS,
    Rachel

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    BPN Member Douglas Bolt's Avatar
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    Rachel,
    More SS would have been nice, but the ISO was already at 2000. The chin was out of frame - should have cut back on the focal length.
    Douglas Bolt
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    BPN Member Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    I remember this gal, she was very cooperative.
    In the moment we tend to focus on what's taking our breath away and it's easy to neglect zooming out a bit, as you conceded Doug.
    I love this kind of soft post-sunset light and how it pops the colours and the nocturnal animals' pupils. The chin is unfortunate but not a deal-breaker for me.
    Morkel Erasmus

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    I wish you had not clipped the chin here and I also think you needed a bit more ss.
    Totally agree here Rachel, 1/125 is just too slow, crank the ISO to 3200 - 6400 the 5D can easily handle it. Overall it looks as if there is too much Clarity/saturation, pegging this back provides a cleaner and less saturated look & feel. Also reducing the blue in the eye too. Like the gapping mouth and alert pose, but overall, the techs and clipped chin for me, lets the image down.

    In the moment we tend to focus on what's taking our breath away
    I doubt this was an instant moment Morkel, I would think there would have been time to take a few frames, check techs, histogram and comp, then refine to nail the shot?

    TFS
    Steve

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    Hi Doug -- I would go with Steve's comments here , The 5D can easily handle iso upto 6400 and in some cases even 8000 works . Also the clarity or saturation is robbing it of finer details . As far as the chin is concerned these things happen in the wild when the animals appear closer and closer especially if they are the big cats , there is always a next time .

    TFS !

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    Lovely Closeup with beautiful details all over....

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    BPN Member Douglas Bolt's Avatar
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    Thanks all for suggestions and comments. I certainly agree the image would have been better if the lioness's chin were all in the frame. However, I do not understand the reasoning behind the criticism for the slow shutter speed. I do not see any evidence in the image for image movement or camera shake. Granted, doing it again, I would have selected a faster speed, larger f-stop and a bigger ISO, but I didn't. Please help me understand how this image would have been better if I had used a faster shutter speed?
    Douglas Bolt
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    Lifetime Member Rachel Hollander's Avatar
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    Doug - for me the cheek and nose do show evidence of being less than sharp. They have been sharpened but there's still a feeling of movement there.

    Just my perception on viewing and why I made the initial comment about ss.

    Rachel

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Doug, at this size anything can look 'pin sharp', it's all about the RAW, is that sharp and I mean sharp????

    The old rule of thumb used to be i.e. 500mm lens minimum 1/500ss, 300mm 1/300ss etc, but that has now changed with the advancements in camera bodies and technology.

    Shooting at 1/125 is courting danger and you really have to be very skilled in both shooting and body technique to even attempt such low SS, there is a whole lot more than needs to be done before pressing that shutter, that's the easy part.

    Please help me understand how this image would have been better if I had used a faster shutter speed?
    Doug, I'm not going to tread on toes here, but feel if Morkel/Gerry were your Guides/Advisors then I think you should ask them, I can only base my advice through my own shooting experiences, days out with Canon 'geeks' on training/testing days and spending time over the years with people who have become Canon Ambassadors.

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    BPN Member Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    Doug, I think the comments on SS here are generally based on an ideal situation, ie looking back we think about the settings used and try to discern what could be done differently to maximise image quality or sharpness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Doug, at this size anything can look 'pin sharp', it's all about the RAW, is that sharp and I mean sharp????

    The old rule of thumb used to be i.e. 500mm lens minimum 1/500ss, 300mm 1/300ss etc, but that has now changed with the advancements in camera bodies and technology.

    Shooting at 1/125 is courting danger and you really have to be very skilled in both shooting and body technique to even attempt such low SS, there is a whole lot more than needs to be done before pressing that shutter, that's the easy part.

    Doug, I'm not going to tread on toes here, but feel if Morkel/Gerry were your Guides/Advisors then I think you should ask them, I can only base my advice through my own shooting experiences, days out with Canon 'geeks' on training/testing days and spending time over the years with people who have become Canon Ambassadors.
    Well, in my shooting experience I have lots of confidence in going to 1/125 or 1/100 using the 70-200mm lens which is easily handholdable without inducing too much shake, and combined with the modern IS/VR tech should negate any issues due to personal technique with a static lioness like this. She was sitting still next to the vehicles at this point.

    While I was in a different vehicle than Doug on this specific game drive, I would only have recommended higher SS if he was using a longer focal length (ie heavier lens), given that it was overcast and just past sunset so light was at a premium and she was VERY close so DOF also at a premium.

    I've achieved good sharpness with static subjects even at 1/100 on 500mm before. So each will base their settings on their own experience, style and what they're comfortable with Steve?
    Cometh the context, cometh the settings
    Morkel Erasmus

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    Hi Doug -- I can see some movement on its cheek and nose area so in this case we all critiqued regarding higher ss . And the 5D MK III can easily handle higher iso than 2000 so why take chances and go for lower ss when you have the option available unless you wanted to pan .

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    I've achieved good sharpness with static subjects even at 1/100 on 500mm before. So each will base their settings on their own experience, style and what they're comfortable with Steve?
    Morkel, I think we are both well versed in shooting at slow SS over the years and what that entails, however, (and as voiced by Haseeb), why take chances?? As I said, with the advancements in both Camera & Software, dealing with noise is no longer an issue and I for one would rather have a hint of noise in an image than a soft image. Having the added bonus of Customising the 'Cases' and not relying on the factory settings, only bolsters in helping nail the shot.

    These cameras (Nikon & Canon) are designed to allow the photographer to capture 'that moment', but YOU have to drive it. We ALL have made silly errors in the heat of the moment regarding the techs, but then the camera will bite you in the butt.

    To conclude and this might go over a lot of heads perhaps and some may even ponder on this question, however and I am not being funny here:

    Doug, what ISO do you think your eyes were working at when you looked through the view finder????

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    BPN Member Douglas Bolt's Avatar
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    Steve,

    I'm pretty sure my eyes were set on AUTO ISO!
    Douglas Bolt
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    Excellent image of beautiful lady.

    Regards,
    Satish.

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