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Thread: 5D IV, 5DS R, or 1DX?

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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Default 5D IV, 5DS R, or 1DX?

    What to do, what to do, what to do?

    With the release of the EOS 5D Mark IV DSLR it is an exciting time for bird, wildlife, and nature photographers using the Canon system. Do you go with the new body, with the mega mega-pixel Canon EOS 5DS R DSLR, or with the rugged blazingly fast Canon EOS-1D X Mark II DSLR with 64GB Card and Reader?

    The discussions below can help you with your decision. If you are in the market for a new body, please remember to use one of the B&H affiliate links in the first paragraph this article. If you opt for the 5D Mark IV, please, once you get to the B&H product page, click on Pre-order. If instead you click on Request stock alert that option will not track properly.

    Most Important

    Please remember that it ain’t the camera and it ain’t the lens… A competent and creative photographer with older gear who practices and studies and works hard on their post-processing skills will create much better images than a lazy incompetent photographer with the latest greatest camera bodies and lenses. But only 100% of the time. Before you reach for your credit card, be sure also to ask yourself, “What is the end purpose of my images, what will I be using them for?” Your honest answer might save you thousands of dollars.

    The Canon EOS 5DS R versus the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV

    Here is an e-mail exchange with Ken Lui who e-mailed me with a gear question:

    am: Hi Ken, re:

    KL: I take both landscape and bird photos, including birds in flight. I have both 100-400 IS II and the 600 mm IS II and a few other L lenses for landscapes. Any thoughts as to which camera would be better for me, the 5DS R or the Canon 5D Mark IV?

    am: Unless you are routinely making very large prints I would lean toward the 5D Mark IV for its faster frame rate, its likely improved AF system, AF at f/8, improved low light/high ISO performance, and its more manageable file sizes (though I have no problem at all with the large 5DS R image files on my Macbook Pro). More on the AF at f/8 bit: at f/8, the 5D IV (like the more expensive 1DX II) offers all AF points and all AF Area Selection modes.

    That said you should be able to make some pretty wonderful large prints with 5D Mark IV images. If you remember, when I first mentioned that it is harder to make sharp images with camera bodies with densely packed pixels, pretty much everyone told me that I was wrong. Good friend and technical wizard Alan Lillich kindly explained that I was right because the lens shake needs to be considered on a pixel level. I did not and do not really understand the physics of it, but I knew I was right all along because of what I was experiencing with the 7D II and then later with the 5DS R, each with tiny, tightly packed pixels.
    If you watch the 5D Mark IV panel discussion video here, you will note just before the 54 minute mark that both pros made comments that showed that I was indeed correct. Therefore, for most folks, the real possibility is that it would be easier for many of them to make sharp images with a 30mp body than with a 50mp body. For some, this seemingly fine point might be a hugely important factor.

    KL: Thanks. Now I have a even harder time choosing between the 5DS R and the 5D MK IV…

    am: Whatever you do, please be sure to use the B&H affiliate links in the first paragraph above. Many thanks for that. Please let me know if you have any additional questions.

    To Be Clear: The Big Realization

    While it will be slightly more difficult for folks going from a 16-22mp camera body to a 30mp body–the 5D Mark IV–to make sharp images, it will surely be a lot easier for many folks to make sharp images with a 30mp body than with a 50mp body–the 5DS R.

    The Canon EOS 5DS R/600II/1.4XIII TC versus the Canon EOS-1DX Mark II/600II/2XII TC.

    A Comments conversation with Ryan Sanderson from the blog post here.

    RS: What considerations go into your choice of 5DS R/600II/1.4XIII TC versus the 1DX Mark II/600II/2XII TC.

    am: There are lots of factors.

    RS: It would seem to me that frame rate and perhaps higher ISO capability would be the only reasons you would want to go with the second combo and I guess one could possibly make an argument about weather conditions.

    am: Yes to the things that you noted above. And the fact that the 1DX II offers faster initial focusing acquisition (possibly because of battery considerations…) And the 1DX II offers all AF points and all AF Area Selection modes while the 5DS R offers only the center AF point plus the assist point in Expand.

    Common sense dictates that a sharp image made with the 5DS R/600II/1.4XIII TC and then cropped will better image quality than an image made with the 1DX Mark II/600II/2XIII TC. And the former combo will enjoy both one stop of AF and ISO advantages as wide open will be f/5.6 rather than f/8. That said, here is one factor that I have long thought about and realized but never written about until now: there is always a subconscious factor that overrules common sense. The brain thinks, “Having the bird larger in the frame (with the1DX Mark II/600II/2XIII TC combo) has got to be better.” In addition, bigger in the frame is comforting both to the psyche and the ego.

    Then there is the motion blur across the more densely-packed 5DS R pixels (as discussed in the first item in this blog post) to add to the mix as everything above assumed prefect sharpness techniques with each rig. The facts are that I have made lots of great images with the 5DS R/600II/1.4XIII TC, made great images with the 1DX Mark II/600II/2XII TC, and, in the best of all worlds, made great images with the 5DS R/600II/2XIII TC...

    RS: I’ve followed your blog daily and have seen the fine images coming from the 1DX2 combo, but sometimes I did wonder if the 5DsR combo would have been better.

    am: As above, I have wondered too.

    RS: I’ve recently acquired a used 5DS R to accompany my 7D Mark II. The 7D II has not been used since I picked up the 5DS R and it’s gotten me to thinking about selling the 7D II and picking up a used 1DX as a back-up.

    am: Good plan. I’d be glad to help you sell your 7D II via the BAA Used Gear page.

    RS: I don’t shoot video, and with the 5DS R, I feel that any significant reach situations would be handled by cropping 5DS R images. I don’t know that going for a 1DX Mark II for double the price of a used 1DX would be advantageous for me, especially since I’m only a hobbyist.

    am: I can never know what is “worth it” for someone else. I am blessed to be able to get the gear I need and want whenever I so choose. I will likely be getting my hands on a 5D Mark IV sooner rather than later. Hey, here’s something for you to consider: should you be buying a new 5D Mark IV instead of a 5DS R? See the item that opens this blog post for help with that decision...

    A Note On Camera Body Weights

    Do not forget that both the 5D Mark IV and the 5DS R are a lot lighter than the relative behemoth, the 1DX Mark II.

    All Things Considered…

    If you read and understand and consider everything above, it sounds as if new 5D Mark IV might be the perfect body for those who do serious landscape, travel, Urbex, nature, and wildlife photography, including and especially birds. I will be borrowing one to test as soon as possible. I will almost surely have one to use on the DeSoto IPT. And each participant will get one hour to play with the new body.
    You can learn lots more about the 5D IV in the blog post here.

    For folks who specialize in photographing birds in flight and in action, or those who work often in extremely low light conditions, the 1DX Mark II might very well be best for them… Click here for more on that.
    Last edited by Arthur Morris; 08-29-2016 at 05:00 AM.
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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    for me it's the 1DX2 and the 5DMKIV.

    I am eager to see what the DPRAW post capture FMA can do. I also like the extra reach of the 5D4 without having to compromise too much on high ISO performance :)
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    Publisher Arthur Morris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi View Post
    for me it's the 1DX2 and the 5DMKIV.

    I am eager to see what the DPRAW post capture FMA can do. I also like the extra reach of the 5D4 without having to compromise too much on high ISO performance :)

    What is FMA? Are you referring to the Dual Pixel stuff.

    Also, what do you mean by "extra reach"? They are both full frame but of course you have more cropping freedom with the 5D IV than with the 1DX II.

    As for the high ISO performance, time will tell.

    BTW: do you rate the 1DX and the 1DX II as equals at the higher ISOs?

    a
    Last edited by Arthur Morris; 08-30-2016 at 04:28 PM.
    BIRDS AS ART Blog: great info and lessons, lots of images with our legendary BAA educational Captions; we will not sell you junk. 30+ years of long lens experience/e-mail with gear questions.

    BIRDS AS ART Online Store: we will not sell you junk. 35 years of long lens experience. Please e-mail with gear questions.

    Check out the new SONY e-Guide and videos that I did with Patrick Sparkman here. Ten percent discount for BPN members,

    E-mail me at samandmayasgrandpa@att.net.










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    Lifetime Member Doug Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    What is FMA? Are you referring to the Dual Pixel stuff.

    Also, what do you mean by "extra reach"? They are both full frame but of course you have more cropping freedom with the 5D IV than with the 1DX II.

    As for the high ISO performance, time will tell.

    BTW: do you rate the 1DX and the 1DX II as equals at the higher ISOs?

    a
    I think Arash means focus micro adjustment when he talks about FMA. I've got a 5D4 preordered and will keep it in my camera bag along with my 1Dx2. Even though the 5D4 will be my 'second' body, there will be plenty of shooting situations where I reach for it over the 1Dx2. This is very different from my experience with prior 'second' bodies that never saw the light of day; they were emergency backups only.
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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    What is FMA? Are you referring to the Dual Pixel stuff.

    Also, what do you mean by "extra reach"? They are both full frame but of course you have more cropping freedom with the 5D IV than with the 1DX II.

    As for the high ISO performance, time will tell.

    BTW: do you rate the 1DX and the 1DX II as equals at the higher ISOs?

    a
    Hey Artie yes the dual pixel RAW and you are right, by reach I just meant more pixels for cropping.

    and yes, 1DX and 1DX II are equal at high ISO.
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  6. Thanks Arthur Morris thanked for this post

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