Another coot

[Stuart Philpott]

Taken earlier on the same morning as my last post probably at a 180 degrees axis to the last with relation to where the sun is. It is just about to rain i'm trying to get the focal point on the head and keep all the reflection .My focus points don't extend far enough out to the edges to achieve this in llllandscape ,sad'y in the time it takes to switch to portrait for my next frame heavy rain is upon us. I've chosen this of the 3 frames I kept as I like the reflection which although incomplete is really lost in the last image due to the raindrops. Image isn't cropped Hh maybe this one is sitting up off my knee. Processed in dpp4 again with my 1div and 300f2.8is extiii


1/800
f/4
iso2000


Thanks for all the previous help with the last image

take care

Stu

[Glennie Passier]

Well done under the circumstances Stu! I like the soft green colours and the one legged, over the shoulder glance at you. Love his pinky coloured bill. I like reflections too, but this one has been crowded at the bottom so, if it were mine, I would be tempted to cut a slice off the bottom. If the IQ stands up I would probably crop much smaller. Once again, maybe lighten his head and eye. Maybe a bit of branch pruning the small stick above his head.

Keep them coming Stu!

[Warren Spreng]

I agree with Glennie, I really like the mood of the photo and I agree with her suggestions.

[Adhika Lie]

Again, this is a very nice serene picture that I really wish it were mine, Stu. I agree with Glennie about a slight crop from the bottom because it feels the bird's shadow is clipped, cropping it a bit more makes it look deliberate. If you know what I mean. But to me, the biggest improvement would come from lightening the head.

[Bob Smith]

You've done a nice job of framing this fellow Stuart and you got a truly lovely BG .. I agree with Adhika about trying to bring out the blacks of the head---I can just detect a tad of eye glint so there may well be room to bring that out more. I think I'd also try cloning out the little branch just in front of the bird.

[Stuart Philpott]

Hey guys I hope you are all well,many thanks for the comments and thoughts, both on this and previous endevours!!

Glennie,this was so frustrating I just couldn't get that focal point on my coot's head and keep all the reflection once that head got raised. In the frame before this I didn't manage to aquire focus properly on the head when it wasn't raised. At that point it would have been possible to have both: simply put, the head wasn't completely in focus I believe. I reacted to this and swapped to portrait ,but sadly I was seconds to slow,got the shot,but of course no reflection due to the rain. What i'll take from this is at least I was thinking in the right direction . I'm very unsure on cropping this one Glennie,absolutely I take on board your points and of course they are right,but somehow i'm happy with knowing that I nearly got there and that feeling of I knew where I wanted to go . In time that view will certainly change. I like the depth within the frame that the reflection helps to create Glennie Yes that one twig is a botherance and yes if I had ps right now and it grates I can't, again, I too want that head/eye just a bit lighter in tone. Great stuff Glennie incredibly useful to me,so many thanks mate

Warren,I guess the post to Glennie refers to you aswell, much gratitude for taking your time to help me buddy

Adihka "wishing this was mine" is probably as cool a compliment as one can get ,I can reciprocate with I've thought that about your images many times !! They have to have a darker head don't they,just to make me want PS more That stunning red eye is so lacking for me,sure it would be small in a frame like this,but I SO want to show more of it. Tranquility is my title for this,it speaks that to me and also the conditions were thus

belucky guys shoot straight

stu

[Diane Miller]

A very nice setting here, with the bird framed by the branches. Unfortunately, again, no detail in the dark head. If you look at the histogram, the dark values in the head run between 25-30, with nothing darker. To get detail, they should span from close to 0 up to maybe 30-40, depending on what was captured. Go back to the raw conversion and see if you can get more tonal stretching in the darks -- the histogram is the guide. What version of DPP do you use? The latest is v4 and it claims to have better tonal adjustments than v3. Maybe there is some leeway in DPP to manipulate the tone curve. I don't think it can come close to LR/ACR but worth a try. See the curve move I showed in Warren's Tree Swallows, just previous to this post.

My thinking on this subject (easy to say after the fact, of course) would have been to go vertical from the start in order to get the reflection. If there wasn't a focus sensor where you needed it, shoot in AI Servo, get a sensor on the head, hold the shutter halfway down to hold focus, and quickly aim the camera slightly down to recompose and shoot. Or you could have done the same focus and recompose in landscape orientation. May not be as good as having an active sensor on the head at the instant of shooting, but at the distance you were, it should work well if you don't move a lot when you recompose.

[Stuart Philpott]

A very nice setting here, with the bird framed by the branches. Unfortunately, again, no detail in the dark head. If you look at the histogram, the dark values in the head run between 25-30, with nothing darker. To get detail, they should span from close to 0 up to maybe 30-40, depending on what was captured. Go back to the raw conversion and see if you can get more tonal stretching in the darks -- the histogram is the guide. What version of DPP do you use? The latest is v4 and it claims to have better tonal adjustments than v3. Maybe there is some leeway in DPP to manipulate the tone curve. I don't think it can come close to LR/ACR but worth a try. See the curve move I showed in Warren's Tree Swallows, just previous to this post.

My thinking on this subject (easy to say after the fact, of course) would have been to go vertical from the start in order to get the reflection. If there wasn't a focus sensor where you needed it, shoot in AI Servo, get a sensor on the head, hold the shutter halfway down to hold focus, and quickly aim the camera slightly down to recompose and shoot. Or you could have done the same focus and recompose in landscape orientation. May not be as good as having an active sensor on the head at the instant of shooting, but at the distance you were, it should work well if you don't move a lot when you recompose.

Diane you are tireless and incredibly giving,cheers for the above.what an incredibly helpful and thought provoking reply,thank you

Yes I loved Warrens tree swallows i'll dig deeper into the histograme ,i'm sure I can do more with it. Yes DPP4version 3.i thiink. it does split into RGB i'm sure also one can manipulate the tonal curve i've played with these things in the past. DPP4 is leaps away from 3 diane even to my learners eye. The shadow recovery side of things is much improved,evry thing used to go to this grey mush before as I say even i can see base things as well as it's capacity to play with separate colours etc. I'll do some reading specifically on this aspect Diane ,i've been reading a bit about histogrames of late trying to really get my head around everything this is great for me cheers.

No you.re right, I should have gone portrait off the bat, and yes, I saw the way the branch framed the bird and that was really appealing to me artistically I wanted landscape,l for that frame I guess I should have backed up a bit but sliding up a bank isn#t so easy . Lack of experience meant i didn't read the situation well enough as you can see I nearly got there it was tight with those focal points. I feel with time though, i'll read these situations quicker Diane. It is starting to happen though, I already have situations where I turn portrait controls on,as I envisage using them or simply have learnt the hard way as here. I don't always while stalking as I in advertantly hit the shutter when scrubbling about in the mud.

I use BBF Diane, have done for yonks now,but being hand held i'm really wary of my ability to focus and recompose,i'd be more comfy with a tripod I guess but use one so little. so I feel the active focal point and thinking quicker may well be my best option.I'm almost always in AI servo Diane and fast continuous but silent mode is being heavily explored,these deer hear a pin drop a mile away !!
Thanks mate seriously helpful !!
Stu

[Stuart Philpott]

Hi Diane, my apologies for the constant slowness to reply,it is how it is. Diane I have been fiddling a bit ,there is the capacity to play with curves not only in RGB but in separates of them in dpp. This edit is just all R G and B together as a first step. i'm not yet happy with the results, the brights are too bight I feel,but certainly the darks are coming. I can see the power available for tonal adjustments via curves already ,but need to hone all this and probably do more reading. Anyway, I thought this step might be worth posting to see if I'm heading in the right direction,as I say i'm not yet happy,but this step is very new,so I felt it might be useful to share this and see if you all feel I'm heading in the right direction.

Many thanks for the guidance

Take care

Stu.

[Diane Miller]

I like this view much better, with the reflection included. The blacks are better, but there may not be enough information (range of tonal values) in the capture to do much with. This guy has very dark black against featureless white and it may take careful work on each value separately with masking to get the best of both, and then the rest of the image adjusted on its own merits. (I might mask a separate adjustment for the gray body, too.) I don't believe there is any detail to be found in the whites on these guys, so I wouldn't worry about that end of the histogram too much.

The histogram here is almost all in the left half and is low contrast, especially on the dark end. (Low contrast means the values don't stretch to both ends. How much they should will of course vary with different images, but you don't want to render what should be blacks as dark gray.) The way to get detail in blacks is to have some pixels right at the end of the range, and then stretch the dark grays out as much as is practical without too much noise.

Keep at it -- you're figuring out valuable stuff. Another good approach, after you get a really good image, is to use the Google/Nik Detail Extractor. It can't fix a real problem issue but it can make a decent one much better. But it is a PS filter, as far as I know. It might be able to be run as a stand-alone, though, so worth checking.

[Arthur Morris]

The flat light and the cluttered setting make a good image here difficult. The bird in Pane #9 is a bit sharper than in the original post.

Regardless of the shutter speed or the fact that you were knee-podding it you would be much better off on a tripod as far as sharpness is concerned. Using One-Shot or Rear Focus on a tripod would eliminate most focusing accuracy problem. What folks do not realize is that when they are hand holding is that their body is constantly moving and throwing off the focus.

If you must hand hold, it is best to get an active sensor on the bird's eye (though that is not always possible).

You did do a good job with the EXP.

a

[Steve Kaluski]

Using One-Shot or Rear Focus on a tripod would eliminate most focusing accuracy problem.

Artie, I think Stu would benefit from your 'tutorial' on setting up Rear Focus for the MKIV from you blog, however I cannot remember if it's the same as the current version, or more geared to the current models i.e. 1DX???? Could you add the correct link when time permits, or could he find it in the Resources part of the Forum?

[Arthur Morris]

Artie, I think Stu would benefit from your 'tutorial' on setting up Rear Focus for the MKIV from you blog, however I cannot remember if it's the same as the current version, or more geared to the current models i.e. 1DX???? Could you add the correct link when time permits, or could he find it in the Resources part of the Forum?

The current link is in most blog posts, whenever I've used Rear Focus.

a

ps: thanks.

[Arthur Morris]

Furthermore, while some folks like the setting here, the framing branches are nice but not ideal; the numerous small branches are quite distracting.

a

[Steve Kaluski]

Cheers Artie, I find it and send it to him, as I know Stu's time is limited.

[Stuart Philpott]

Steve,artie Diane hi guys, hope you are all well thanks for the thoughts.

Back button focus,if that is the same as rear focus,is what this image is taken with,Steve cheers for the pm I have to clear my inbox,still severely time constrained please bare with me.

artie I became aware of BB focus from your blog,thank you good sir, so I implimented it on my little 550D first and then again on my 1Div when i got it. Yes,the body is sharper in this image,but I felt the head wasn't so as my focus point was lower, ie on the body, in pane 9. So I felt it best to post the the first image shown. Diane that is why I felt I should post the cut reflection because of my assessment of head sharpness. I eluded to a real difficulty in my first post which was: which image might be the best,ha they all have faults I been so shattered I actually worked up the wrong image by mistake,hey ho,more gaffs to follow watch this space,

artie, I haven't a tripod yet that is really up to the job, things are very tight for us(moneywise)....i'm not moaning I feel (AM) VERY rich in many ways That said and yes I certainly want one,I do shoot a heck of a lot of HH pictures,that I really don't feel I could get with a tripod. I guess your thoughts on focus and recompose I touched on in pane 8 actually the BB focus is there too if that is what you both mean by rear focus? So yes we have an accord if possible I do try to get an active point on the beastie's eye be it bird or animal. I do get it wrong ,but that is always my mistake. You mentioned the exposure is good is that in anyway driven by that white beak and face patch,could you eulcidate for me please artie. I felt it was tricky because my little friend had the sun somewhere behind to the right,but also felt the flatter light was my allie as I might not blow that beak
Diane,again thanks for the detailed thoughts. I'm actually unsure about detail in that white "beak patch",I think it has a granular texture but I don't know why I feel that I certainly can't dig out an image on google to confirm that gut feeling,hmmm maybe that white against the extremely dark bird makes showing detail in the white incredibly difficult in photography. i'm unsure mate . Thanks for the encouragement all I can really do is apologise for my slowness . There is so much to learn Diane at this stage being aware of what can be done is huge for me. I found it very hard to replicate the tonal curve similar to your suggestions to Warren with regards to the brighter end of the image. I had to play a bit with the higher end. Obviously I understand they are very different images,nonetheless the process was fascinating.

I'd say my biggest failing ,is not having a complete handle(understanding) of which pixels displayed in the histograme are relating to the pixels in the image. Sure white one end ...black another mids are in the middle,I just feel I need to be aware of much more detail. I can't read that histogramme diane I need to know what it means how this peak relates to this " area of tone,thanks mate you have opened my eyes a bit here,it's been a dawning of late anyway.

Seen as it is ETL and composition plus other factors have been pondered,and of course i'm always one to laugh at my gaffs and run with them. Diane would it be ok to pop up the final rainy shot. It was all just a snapshot of me trying to work out how to get something on a camera of a tranquil scene that had some magic in it,preferences have been mentioned which are of interest to me,as I'm frankly struggling. It might also be of interest to others.

thanks muchly all

take care
Stu

ps sorry for the wrong image repost ..."dear oh dear" shakes head

[Arthur Morris]

Stu, I will be brief here as I need to get into the pool :)

Yes. Rear focus and back button AF are the same thing. But if you are not on a tripod or at least very stable with the active sensor where you want it (usually on the eye) it does not matter how you focus...

In images like this with such a tiny amount of white the histogram often appears to lie, in other words, you do not see the pixels the represent white. The thing to do as noted on my blog often is to work in manual mode and keep going slower with the SS until you see a few blinkies on the beak. Then dial back one click to the last shutter speed...

a