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Wildlife Moderator
Stu, when you sharpen in DPP, do you:
- Use Unsharp or Sharpen?
- What amount to you dial in?
- When you then crop for web, do you apply any more additional sharpening?
Steve
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Lifetime Member
Hi Stu - These guys are cute. Agree with your self-critique that you needed more dof to have both sharp. Interested to hear your response to Steve's questions. I would crop some from the top but leave the sides full frame. Haseeb's rp is too tight on the lhs for me and also oversharpened so somewhere between the two as far as sharpening.
TFS,
Rachel
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Stu not to take anything away from your cute little Bunnies but it's so interesting to see what other people have said re the sharping.On my monitor both of them looked a bit on the soft side on the OP,on Haseebs RP the one on the left look still looks be soft to me, the one on the right looks about right,yet to Rachel both look over sharpened.Will look forward to other comments.
Keith.
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Lifetime Member
Keith - I should clarify that when I said it was oversharpened in Haseeb's rp I meant the one on the right that is in focus. The one on the left is slightly soft because it is outside the plane of focus and for me no amount of sharpening can correct that.
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Thanks for that Rachel I am not overconfident with these old eyes of mine,and get your point about the plane of focus.
Keith.
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Originally Posted by
Steve Kaluski
Stu, when you sharpen in DPP, do you:
- Use Unsharp or Sharpen?
- What amount to you dial in?
- When you then crop for web, do you apply any more additional sharpening?
Steve
Guys please forgive if this is laboured,i've just glanced at the replies and would like to make sure I cover specifics mentioned.
Steve,in dpp the fine detail picture style applies an USM (I believe i've worked this out correctly) Andreas advised either neutral or fine detail as good base points to start from,for which he would then take to PS. Steve,the USM value changes to 4:1:1 (strength:fineness:threshold). There is no other sharpening applied to this image. Steve Andreas again advised he wouldn't sharpen in dpp more than this ,but obviously that is going to PS,for the next stage in processing.
On some of my images I have sharpened via DPP as as of yet no further post engine. Here this image sharpness is at default which reads four. If on other images I'd have moved this slider,it would go to around 6 or 7 by my eye,but that ball park range.. I would then convert for web, change colour space . To post here I'd alter the FF size down to 1200x800 detail down to 3 or 4i and that is essentaily it. Steve I did very very little to this particular frame than what I listed last night.
Steve thanks for picking up on this,it is crucial to my progress that I can critically evaluate sharpness
take care
Stu
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Wildlife Moderator
Thanks Stu, based on your reply I would advise you look at purchasing Artie/Arash's DPP guide, as it will provide many answers raised here, plus a direction/approach in processing future files.
All I will say is perhaps try Standard rather than Neutral and change USM to Sharpen and set to 3 and see what happens. There is more you can do and all is clearly defined within the PDF.
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Post a Thank You. - 1 Thanks
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Originally Posted by
haseeb badar
Hi Stuart ,
I was thinking something on this line . Cropped all around , sharpened the subject and adjusted the WB and HSL ( thats according to the taste ) . I thought the BG being quite busy here , the subject needs a bit more separation. I am not on the right monitor to attempt something with colours but I thought I should convey my thoughts here , WDYT ? and lets see what others have to say .
TFS !
Haseeb,ahh buddy call me Stu
,I normally only get called Stuart when I've done something bad
Haseeb thanks for your generosity, little fellas are improved,I need time to really evaluate the two images yours and mine. this sharpness thing is so important. Actually when I mentioned crop I was pondering whether the left bunny shouldn't be in the frame. Mate be very clear I SO appreciate you spending time on this so much,but this sharpness thang that has dogged me since I stared posting here has raised it's head and I'm very unsure of anything. Haseeb we all evaluate sharpness with different eyes as is evident in this thread,I'm sorry i'm being vague on your repost it not lack of appreciation at all,please forgive
Keith no problems at all mate this sharpness lark is important,ha ha but they are too cute not to grab are they not
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Rachel that is what I see the left bunny is out of the depth of field,that's cool that is exactly what I felt. It can never be sharp!! But the right fella grooming and hopefully my replies might help you evaluate what I think is sharp given what tools I have to use at this time. I tried to cover both(re dof) but didn't really want to go lower on TV being standing and HH, or higher on iso,but I did try different options of focal points to try and learn more about DOF.
must dash folks
my sincere thanks,this post might be of incredible importance to me in a big picture sense
take care all
Stu
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Hi Stu -- Yes absolutely it is very subjective and also based on different perceptions . The Basic idea behind the RP was for you to work those lines , I certainly might have overdone the sharpening thing but you can have an idea on how to approach things .
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Post a Thank You. - 1 Thanks
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Story Sequences Moderator and Wildlife Moderator
Hello Stu,
Before I forget, you forgot to specify "shutter speed" in your introduction:)
The bunnies themselves are super cute and that one character on the LHS seems to be sulking, which I quite like. I guess he is sleepy or just woke up, but I love the expression on his face.
A number of issues have been pointed out above, I shall try not repeat them. Just wondering - at the time you were shooting, have you thought of taking a couple of frames in portrait mode, capturing those fellows on their own? And do you look from time to time at your images captured, when out there in the field? Nothing more frustrating than coming home and downloading, only to realise the DOF isn't right, or you cut off the legs of the subject, blown the whites, etc. DOF not so easy to judge looking at the camera, for that you should try practice in your garden, place a teddy bear in a certain spot and shoot at all F-stops possible, try to grasp the power of aperture settings on your equipment.
Regarding this image, I think you can extract more detail from the main character (the grooming fella) if you want to, and lighten the visible eye a bit, I think I see a faint catchlight there. You are doing great Stu, all I ask of you is to experiment more with settings and to move around when shooting if you can - I think you rely too much on your equipment, the "operator" behind the camera/lens can make a world of difference and there are so many possibilities out there. Also make sure you have enough shutter speed as you seem to shoot without support:)
Thank you Stu, appreciate this post, keep up the good work, I am looking forward to the next image!
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Originally Posted by
Steve Kaluski
Thanks Stu, based on your reply I would advise you look at purchasing Artie/Arash's DPP guide, as it will provide many answers raised here, plus a direction/approach in processing future files.
All I will say is perhaps try Standard rather than Neutral and change USM to Sharpen and set to 3 and see what happens. There is more you can do and all is clearly defined within the PDF.
No, thank you Steve for trying to help me
. Steve is right bunny sharp given what I have done? Everything else seems secondary now to me. If an image isn't sharp then it just goes in the bin no amount of processing can save it as I understand,so the thing I most need is conformation or otherwise of this.
Thank you so much for your time Steve and all the help and advice, I really appreciate it especially with you being so busy
take care
Stu
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Originally Posted by
Gabriela Plesea
Hello Stu,
Before I forget, you forgot to specify "shutter speed" in your introduction:)
The bunnies themselves are super cute and that one character on the LHS seems to be sulking, which I quite like. I guess he is sleepy or just woke up, but I love the expression on his face.
A number of issues have been pointed out above, I shall try not repeat them. Just wondering - at the time you were shooting, have you thought of taking a couple of frames in portrait mode, capturing those fellows on their own? And do you look from time to time at your images captured, when out there in the field? Nothing more frustrating than coming home and downloading, only to realise the DOF isn't right, or you cut off the legs of the subject, blown the whites, etc. DOF not so easy to judge looking at the camera, for that you should try practice in your garden, place a teddy bear in a certain spot and shoot at all F-stops possible, try to grasp the power of aperture settings on your equipment.
Regarding this image, I think you can extract more detail from the main character (the grooming fella) if you want to, and lighten the visible eye a bit, I think I see a faint catchlight there. You are doing great Stu, all I ask of you is to experiment more with settings and to move around when shooting if you can - I think you rely too much on your equipment, the "operator" behind the camera/lens can make a world of difference and there are so many possibilities out there. Also make sure you have enough shutter speed as you seem to shoot without support:)
Thank you Stu, appreciate this post, keep up the good work, I am looking forward to the next image!
Haseeb thanks so much buddy always the various reposts help me in trying to move forwards.
Hiya Gabriela,cor your Rhinos,sorry but I'll reply properly later,just rushing a bit and wow great message,won't go further here.
Gabrieal I'm confused or mucking things up,re shutter speed. I thought the correct abbreviation was TV( yes I do know this is a mode in camera as well). Could you please confirm what I should be using,sorry about this,but it's best adressed now. Gabby incidentally it's 1/800.
Ahh mate again thank you for such a cool thought provoking post your are so kind.
Gabriela, (ahh kiddo you would be in histerics watching me try to write your name correctly it just will not go into my head it's so funny), here, I did look at the back of the camera and thought I had had my dof right,but sadly it wasn't. I had stopped down,but as you can see I was also starting to get lower on the shutter speed than I'd really of liked. I also experimented with focal point placement as well,just didn't get it right . Gabby because of this and wanting the two guys in frame on this occassion( yes exactly that expression on the left bunny was why I wanted him in frame), I didn't try portrait. But yes that step is starting to happen more and more now. I'm using it more with waterfolw at this time than anywhere else in efforts to get the reflection
in frame,but yes that bit is coming it's also starting to figure in my deer close up pictures. He he I'm getting there it's just slow Gabriela and I apologise,but I promise I'm going to keep pushing.
Gabby yes I am still making the school boy errors especially when things happen really fast ,so sadly i'm just on the verge of deleting a huge number of shots of a little bird Shaz and I sat for two hours to see. When my chance finally came it had got much brighter and I had little time to think. Little fella was dashing about all ways hunting, i'm absolutely gutted that all my highlights seem blown. Sometimes it is very hard learning this the hard way ,but I guess for me that is how I learn. I was so focused on my focal points and framing him as little fella was close that a basic slip cost me dear.
Mate thanks for emphasising some things here that you feel are important to my progress,I think with much of this post you are, as always, completely correct in the items picked up on and give me great tips to help me move forwards next time i'm in the field. Teddy is cool made me smile as well,but I completely understand. Gabby at this time I am very much leaning towards most of my shooting being without a tripod,that said i'm slowly saving for one as I do desparately want one. If there is any way when out I can use something as a rest to aid stabilisation it's used. In this particular case a tripod would have been invaluable,but what I have is inadequate for this camera and lens,so my options were limited bunnies being raised up on their bank an all.
Have a wonderful weekend Gabriela,heart felt thanks for the thoughtful and kind responses to my efforts,they are always huge for me. i'm just a bit haphazard on implimentation as of yet,I get one bit right and muck something else up,but I really feel despite the set backs that I'm moving in the right direction,well see kiddo,but it's all good
take care
Stu.
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Wildlife Moderator
Stu, I would need to see the RAW to make a better appraisal of the image, at this stage one can only make assumptions.
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Story Sequences Moderator and Wildlife Moderator
Thanks Stu,
My apologies, I did not notice you did specify shutter speed - 1/800s is not too bad here, I just think that, when the subject is moving and you shoot handheld, you should play it safe. Or safer:) Take a few shots at various settings and see which one looks best when you upload. And I was serious when I mentioned the teddybear, this is how I learnt how to judge DOF:) I still make mistakes, although when not sure I just take a number of frames so I have more to choose from. I just do not share the very bad ones, LOL.
You mentioned tripod, Stu - how about a monopod instead? Easier to carry around on your walks, just a thought?
I hope you too have a great evening, have fun with PP work and please do not get discouraged by our critique. We are only here to help each other
Kind regards,
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Originally Posted by
Steve Kaluski
Stu, I would need to see the RAW to make a better appraisal of the image, at this stage one can only make assumptions.
Steve, would you have time to view a raw? Andreas showed me a method via "weshare" I think it's called of getting that to you. Mate, I know you are pushed because you haven't yet been able to reply to my questions on how best, to approach getting photoshop and I really don't want to add any more burdens , but I so need this handle on sharpness.
Ahh kiddo you have been so kind to me if it is too much to ask at the moment,just say buddy , no probs
,I'll find a way one way or another.
take care
Stu
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Originally Posted by
Gabriela Plesea
Thanks Stu,
My apologies, I did not notice you did specify shutter speed - 1/800s is not too bad here, I just think that, when the subject is moving and you shoot handheld, you should play it safe. Or safer:) Take a few shots at various settings and see which one looks best when you upload. And I was serious when I mentioned the teddybear, this is how I learnt how to judge DOF:) I still make mistakes, although when not sure I just take a number of frames so I have more to choose from. I just do not share the very bad ones, LOL.
You mentioned tripod, Stu - how about a monopod instead? Easier to carry around on your walks, just a thought?
I hope you too have a great evening, have fun with PP work and please do not get discouraged by our critique. We are only here to help each other
Kind regards,
The thanks are always mine Gabriela,oh don't worry i'm not in anyway discouraged,if you read that in my poorly worded notes I'm sorry. the Critique here has always been kind and incredibly helpful. I love this and on every level I see folks trying to help me be better,you especially go out of your way,to provoke thought and add wisdom. I feel sometimes we don't "get" each other because you live there and me here (we talk differently),but that will never get past my utter belief that you are trying to make me into a better photographer of wildlife,trying to steer me,and mate,cheers with love ,for that!!
Oh and yes I had a wonderful evening thank you,chased hares didn't measure up but learnt just that bit more about light in the last throws of sunset. If I had of got my craft right I'd have something lovely to show you.
thank you so much Gabriela i'd love to tell you what happened here today while I was away grafting,real magical stuff we haven't seen in 20plus years but I need to stay on topic
best always
Stu
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Wildlife Moderator
Stu, I'll try and sort it tomorrow. If you can use Dropbox to send the file that would be good.
Steve
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Wildlife Moderator
Stu, I have emailed you too.
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Steve a belated reply, as always thank you,as I said privately I don't know how you find the time to do what you do and still have this amazing want to help folks along on their little journey,clicking a button would utterly not be enough I have to word this,my huge thanks
take care
Stu