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Fallow deer and my first picture in wildlife
Guys,we live in the midlands of England UK,on a nearby country estate live a very large and very wild population of fallow deer. Fallow can be found on many estates in blighty in semi captive conditions. This population is large and wide ranging. some of my fallow picture you will see are taken in a hide. At this hide the animals are fed and the deer are slightly desensitized to humans,we also see muntjac at the hide. Some of my fallow pictures are of the completely wild population,we have recently been trying to catch up with some rutting bucks,but have failed,none the less,we did get something,which I hope to share with you all. I will clearly mark which photos are from which source,to me the hide is someone else's work and while the images are what they are,they don't hold the same kind of joy for me as the really wild guys whom We've stalked or waited for hours for. Essentially they are one in the same population wise. We have got permission from the farmer to stray on his land and frankly although unsucessful at actually catching some bucks rutting have had a wonderful time learning about them this year. These guys will run if they see you two fields away,they are very tricky to get within range of. Oft being in groups makes the challenge much harder. The image that will hopefully appear below is one of those few moments when all the ground work came together. We watched two walkers hundreds of yards away spot a small group of does/ fawns with a buck. He was holding them under an oak, the ground work lead us to move very fast along the wood edge unseen,to a spot where we gambled the deer would head for. The gamble paid off,we actually had a bewildering experience once the deer reached us. The buck decided one of his ladies was a hottie
chased her and she very nearly ran over me. It was all so fast I just didn't get a really sharp picture,but looking back I'm slightly amused it didn't occur to me to put the camera down. As she veered off and I changed position hoping for a look back I had Shaz whispering the buck is behind you five yards away. Being the ultimate wild life tog I am most definitely not,I didn't even see him
. But it's him coming to us that will be my first picture to share with you as the walkers caused the deer to do exactly what we hoped for.
Folks note that at this time I don't do much work in post let me rephase that ,obviously I am hugely aware of how important post is,but I'm learning and trying to get some good images off the back of the camera as a start,these are processed in DPP 3 or 4,which is all I have. My plan is to get that side,the ability to use my new 1Div,to a good level,sort of learning by stages and then focus on post a bit later on. I feel I am already stretched and also know that shooting in raw I can always come back as I start to get comfortable with my camera skills,but there is a long road to travel first.
F70F9542 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr
Canon 1Div 300f/2.8 1.4extender iso1600 f5.6 1/2500 hand held probably off my knee while hiding in some nettles
Take care all
Stu
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Lifetime Member
Hi Stuart - Again, welcome to the Wildlife Forum! There are several people on here who are using DPP for their raw conversions these days (though I am not one of them). Artie and Arash have published a guide to using DPP that is available on their respective websites. It may help though I do believe that they recommend that finishing touches be applied in PS. I like the warm, fall tones of the image you've posted. For now, I'll mostly comment on issues that you can deal with in the field. The techs look pretty good. While you have correctly given the deer room to run into in the frame, I feel it is a bit tight below and to the right so would prefer a bit more room there. Also the deer's head is angled just slightly away from you and the camera. It would be better to have it parallel to the sensor or even better to have it slightly towards you. Finally, one other thing to try to avoid in the field is to have horizons or other lines, like the edge of the grass here, pass through the face or head of the animal. I don't mean for this to sound negative. I think you actually did very well with a fast moving subject and it is a nice first post. Looking forward to seeing more of your images.
TFS,
Rachel
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Wildlife Moderator
Stuart, I'm currently away, but will get back to you, great to see you posting here. Andreas is your man for DPP, do you have Canon's tutorials, or bought Arashes PDF?
Cheers
Steve
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Wildlife Moderator
Hi Stuart, firstly, make sure you have your camera set-up correctly, ie the menus are fit for purpose, for example Colour Space Adobe 1998 etc, not sRGB, sadly I no longer have my MKIV, but I'm sure again Andreas could point you in the right direction in some simple settings to configure your camera if required. Secondly I would learn to use 'Back button focus', a simple method, but one that will pay off once you get used to it, again this can be done in configuring your camera. Avoid small in frame (unless you wish to portray your subject in that way), then crop in Post Production, the image will be poor and IQ not existent, hefty cropping will bring bad habits and is not the way to go. Try to frame and do as much in camera, this will also reduce PP work, but allow some additional space all round for final cropping at PP stage. Keeping a good SS unless you have a good technique, or the camera is supported will help, don't even think about 1/125 sec, 1/80, these are just too slow for HH. Even if you see images posted here in any of the Forums with slow SS like 1/125, at this size it looks OK, but truthfully at full size they would be soft I bet. Keep to RAW, the image will be better, you can do more and these days NO one shoots in sRGB unless you purely do web as there are insufficient colours within the file to print with. Shoot AV or M, but by the look you have this under your belt based on the techs for the image. There is more you will pick up in time, but sadly digital shooting & Post Production (PP) work hand in hand, so the more you shoot, the more you will need to learn, albeit the basics, it doesn't need to be fancy. Do you have Photoshop, if so what version? If you haven't then I would strongly advise you do as there are things you can't do in DPP, but this may need to be later on?
To the image, a good start I feel, but agree with Rachel that perhaps dipping in between here & ETL would be good. There is enough SS to freeze the subject and I like the way the legs criss-cross to convey he running aspect. Lovely colours and the exposure looks good. For me however there are two issues, one the image is on a slope, see the background/horizon line. This can be addressed in PP with a rotation, but then you loose image space around which can be problematic when cropping. Two, the subject is too close to the trim at the foot of the image, it needs a wee bit more below, always in the intro state if the image is cropped or Full frame (FF) as this also helps. This is one of the pitfalls with fixed lenses, what you see is what you get compared to zoom lenses, however the 300f/2.8 is a fantastic lens. I would also look at perhaps a hint more sharpening too, but this is personal choice, but avoid sharpening the BKG, only the subject.
Finally, if you want more deer in a better location and live in the Midlands let me know, but it might require an early start and walking to locate them.
Must dash, talk when I get back, however I'm sure others will chime in with more advice.
TFS
Steve
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Originally Posted by
Rachel Hollander
Hi Stuart - Again, welcome to the Wildlife Forum! There are several people on here who are using DPP for their raw conversions these days (though I am not one of them). Artie and Arash have published a guide to using DPP that is available on their respective websites. It may help though I do believe that they recommend that finishing touches be applied in PS. I like the warm, fall tones of the image you've posted. For now, I'll mostly comment on issues that you can deal with in the field. The techs look pretty good. While you have correctly given the deer room to run into in the frame, I feel it is a bit tight below and to the right so would prefer a bit more room there. Also the deer's head is angled just slightly away from you and the camera. It would be better to have it parallel to the sensor or even better to have it slightly towards you. Finally, one other thing to try to avoid in the field is to have horizons or other lines, like the edge of the grass here, pass through the face or head of the animal. I don't mean for this to sound negative. I think you actually did very well with a fast moving subject and it is a nice first post. Looking forward to seeing more of your images.
TFS,
Rachel
Rachel lets start here: there is nothing negative in your post,i'm grateful for your time and appreciate the advice,and kindness,thanks mate. I also utterly appreciate the welcome thank you. I am aware of Artie(hope he doesn't mind I kinda want to call him Mr Morris I guess it' respect or manners I dunno) and Arash's guide,for the mo I want to get my head down and graft it out the hard way. Rachel,I work very hard grinding things out the hard way works for me. Let it be said I'm very aware of how important post is,I can see that a mile off mate ,but at this stage in my life I guess I have a method for learning I want to explore,it's slow and ponderous,but hey that's me
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Thanks for the thoughts on the image Rachel,now the head angle, HA I know of. I do read a Artie's blog and absolutely your right I could do little,but yes sure he's veering slightly away my gamble didn't quite hit the nail on the head. Now the thoughts on a horizon dissecting the head are completely new to me,thank you for this,it's something I have never considered,so that's a massive eye opener for me,I am also very grateful for your words on cropping also echoed by Steve.
Rachel, I have to say again thanks for the kindness and the welcome !! I don't take folks time for granted, I'm not an articulate guy and sure I struggle with letters but it's very important to me that my gratitude gets conveyed you take care kiddo
many thanks
Stu
PS sorry slow to reply it's utterly not to do with gratitude
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Lifetime Member
Hi Stuart
It is solid advise given by Rachel and Steve- take it to heart.
You do need a RAW converter like DPP/LR but Photoshop is a necessity if you want to take it further.
What hit me most about this image is the sloping line in background, and space underneath.. try and recompose/striagten in Raw converter and do a RP...
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Cor Stave massive thanks!! Buddy let me just say simply your time is hugely appreciated and it's remarkable that even though you are away you still found time for a new member.
The thoughts on cropping as with Rachel ,thank you good sir. Back button focus is how the image was shot,yup once again thanks to Mr Morris,,yes I know Artie has switched back but I do like this way of taking pictures. Words on the crop taken on board!! Word on the actual effects of cropping are in some ways in hand ,having someone take their time to spell it out is just lovely Steve,ahh mate thanks so much The words on colour space all new Steve I'll check that and be sure!! Always shoot M so although it's a work in progress I'm on my way
. I appreciate how important post is Steve, I really do. I just don't want to overload my self I suppose,I want the base"concepts right in camera and to then move forwards. Steve, I'm trying to cater for my infalibilities, my failures, my issues, problems call 'em what one may,so learning will be slow and hard won ,but on every level I can see what post can do for an image. Steve, I don't have anything post wise yet other than DPP.I guess there is a tiny bit of something else also at play here ,it's all clued at in my intro here.... yup....To the image buddy.
Actually the horizon is correct,I seem to have an ability with level, ha not in portrait though I can simply see it. The background horizon is running upwards left to right,the buck is actually running up hill and just starting to level out in the opposite plane. It's a bit of a conundrum for me if I leveled the background horizon the buck has to be wrong.I'm unsure of how to address this as you can see I've also gone back and checked all this as someone else picked up on it I'm level with the camera,but the image says something somewhat different. Sharpening I'm starting to get my head around unsharp mask,but in no way am competant
Steve my train ride continues I have to sleep,I need to convey a couple of things,one is the most sincere gratitude that someone so obviously talented and so obviously busy would still find time for me,that is seriously special to a humble guy like me I can't articulate what that means but **** I'm trying to. Second ahh bro,the offer of helping me find them,JUST so SO kind. Kiddo I can do that bit,that's the bit I know,taking a picture another ball park altogether
(ok I don't know of reds locally but fallow roe and to a lesser extent muntjac I could probably take you too ,with some luck of course
Such kindness Steve bless you mate I so wish you every success in all you do
just thanks
Stu
PS Sorry slow replying Steve 12 hours again today the train ride is unforgiving oh and guys call me Stu all do until I do something bad and i'm in the dog house
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Wildlife Moderator
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Lifetime Member
Hi Stu
When you post an image for viewers, they only see what you present, they were not there..
We all have an idea what we like/dislike when viewing an image, lot of it is subconscious.
What Steve has done is pleasing on the eye, for me that is first consideration before any PP work. Comp (ie crop and rotation) makes or break an image. I get it wrong more often than not...
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Post a Thank You. - 1 Thanks
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Macro and Flora Moderator
Stu I like the image, I am the odd one out here when I saw the original I just assumed you hadn't skewed it and the background was indeed sloping as shown. I think however the crop to make smaller portrays the deed to a better effect and if the background was left sloping in the cropped image it would not really have looked very pleasing to the eye. You are doing well with your new camera I am looking forward to seeing more.
You may want to brighten the darker areas on the head and eye just a little bit. To get good (and consistent) results with lighting adjustments you would ideally have a calibrated monitor to work on.
Canon have an excellent guide on DPP, Arties/Arash guide also provides some guidelines for noise reduction - but remember these are guides not absolutes!
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Hey Steve,what's that saying if ya want something doing ask a busy man
Steve I'm truly touched by the effort towards me even when you are running about,sorry if I sound like a stuck record repeating the gratitude. I'm a simple humble man Steve, I don't take this help for granted,sure I'm a trainwreck and won't be the sharpest tool in the box at this time,but I am trying to take all this in,best I can.
Ok you have made the buck bigger in frame by cropping and leveled the horizon,i've been scrolling up and down like a **** yo yo maybe a bit of sharpening? The colours seem the same. Real interesting Steve,could you tell me if you have done anything else please. He he I can't help this ,but 5 mins for you might be a tad longer for me
Lot's to ponder i'll try again with a repost over the weekend,but if you can find the time i'd love to know exactly what you have done. Please don't rush on my behalf though i'm grateful enough already,wouldn't want to appear impolite,
take care
Stu
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Originally Posted by
Andre Pretorius
Hi Stu
When you post an image for viewers, they only see what you present, they were not there..
We all have an idea what we like/dislike when viewing an image, lot of it is subconscious.
What Steve has done is pleasing on the eye, for me that is first consideration before any PP work. Comp (ie crop and rotation) makes or break an image. I get it wrong more often than not...

Hey Andre,cheers for coming back with more thoughts,yup not easy all this,mind like so many things in life a challenge and the journey to try and be better is all part of the fun,it's enthralling all this. Andre it all seems to happen so fast,huge thanks for your point of view and taking the time, your words add clarity for me.
take care
Stu
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Originally Posted by
Jonathan Ashton
Stu I like the image, I am the odd one out here when I saw the original I just assumed you hadn't skewed it and the background was indeed sloping as shown. I think however the crop to make smaller portrays the deed to a better effect and if the background was left sloping in the cropped image it would not really have looked very pleasing to the eye. You are doing well with your new camera I am looking forward to seeing more.
You may want to brighten the darker areas on the head and eye just a little bit. To get good (and consistent) results with lighting adjustments you would ideally have a calibrated monitor to work on.
Canon have an excellent guide on DPP, Arties/Arash guide also provides some guidelines for noise reduction - but remember these are guides not absolutes!
Hello Johnathan,do you mind being called John,I tend to truncate names,but would like to call you by what you prefer. Mate love your pics,i've watched a while
. Johnathan,Steve mentioned the canon tutorials ,I missed replying to that ,I'm pretty burnt out at the mo. Do you have a link please I do have something on DPP4,but maybe there is more that I haven't found yet,
Thanks for the words of encouragement,it's early days for me with the iv,it's lovely having that power that my little 550D doesn't seem to have to drive focus,don't get me wrong I loved the start the 550 gave me,I'll show you a couple of SEO's at some stage,I find it astounding that a little consumer camera could even have a chance of driving a 300 and 2x extender,sort of wonderful to me that.
Yeah the shot is basically down a shallow rounded valley,cut by a stream: so he's coming at me uphill and the background is the opposite side of the coin,maybe you are the odd one out because you are here UK and recognize this type of landscape?(Steve just comes from somewhere in the world
I have a hunch he might be from our part of the world though who knows
) but I get exactly what the guys are trying to show me and thank all. Noise reduction I am utterly not au fait(spelling we'll get a goodly few of these) with,again I'm aware. I just feel I need to get my self to the stage of capturing "good images" and learning how to use the camera before attempting the next stage,this will be the best way for me bro,the one thing I do know is me and how I learn:I have to get that first bit right in camera and then progress
Johnathan,I don't have other than canon DPP so believe I can't lighten selected areas,I can see what your saying though.
Simply put Johnathan I can see how much I need a calibrated monitor good tripod good head ETC, but having the means to buy is utterly not an option. Spending nine years giving all to someone else as a care worker in our country (it was his life how could I not his family were beyond useless) means it's beyond a miracle I have the tools to take pictures I do. I'm the bottom of the pile mate,but I do have those tools and not being affluent is utterly not going to stop me trying to be the best I CAN BE,this might never make me a wildlife photographer but it utterly won't get in my way of trying to be one
. Now all I need is to not be working when it's daylight. Ahh how can one have kez (kestrel) hunting in MY garden a barn owl today in a field across the road from MY house and not have a picture to show (cause I'm grafting),but it's christmas soon and I'll get my first proper break for 18 months Our camera is going to get some work and I'm going to have some light (maybe not great light but some light) happy days,all failings will be mine but maybe huh, just maybe I can catch up with some folks soon.
Belucky Johnathan
best
Stu
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BPN Member
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Hi Stuart -- A Big welcome and a lovely image to start with . You have got great suggestions and i hope you will put it into practice the next time you are on the field . I am also a beginner on BPN and would look forward to your posts as it will be a great source of discussion and learning .
TFS !
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Originally Posted by
Andreas Liedmann
Hi Stu another welcome to our wildlife circle

,
neat dynamic opener you posted . I like the "all 4 īs " in the air pose of the subject even if the angle is not idea , lovely warm autumn colors and the tones do look quite ok .
You got so many good suggestions and shared thoughts on various subjects in terms of kit and PP , i will not add more

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As Steve K said i am the DPP man here in wildlife , LOL , just because i seem to be the only one who uses the Canon software for 95 % of my images , so if you might have a question ... feel free to ask , if i can i help .
Hope to see more ... TFS Andreas
Andreas,thank you so much for your kind offer with DPP,do you use other programmes after wards such as photoshop? I presume you do and dpp is your raw converter of choice?
Andreas would it be correct to ask question about dpp here?.I'm unsure of whether this would be the right place as the forum has other sections maybe more suitable . I could ask you via pm,but it always seems a shame to have someone helping others privately, in some ways as, the advice/help are oft of use to another newer member
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Guys much written about shutter speeds and higher the use of "higher" iso to achieve this. Here in blighty at this time of year is is often quite dull,could anyone please recommend a cut of point I should not really go over with the 1Dmark iv please? The previous owner of my camera (and a wonderful photgrapher in my eyes) has been very kind and helpful,he said he preferred to stay below iso2000,I just want your opinions if that's ok.
Andreas thanks again you have all been so kind
Here's a repost,slightly bigger crop given more room beneath and behind the subject and leveled horizon.A bit more sharpening in USM (strength 6 fineness 8 threshold2) in DPP
F70F9542 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr
Take care
Stu
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Originally Posted by
haseeb badar
Hi Stuart -- A Big welcome and a lovely image to start with . You have got great suggestions and i hope you will put it into practice the next time you are on the field . I am also a beginner on BPN and would look forward to your posts as it will be a great source of discussion and learning .
TFS !
Hi Haseeb and me to your posts, for the same reasons.
Thanks for the welcome Haseeb lovely of you to take the time,I wish you every success in your endevorous to take the pictures of your dreams. It's not easy this, the moment can be so fleeting and there is so much to ponder
take care
Stu
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BPN Member
Hi Stu at first the best way is to get the shot perfect in camera ........but when is this the case ? specially under strong light conditions ?
So there is from my POV no way to go around the RAW way !!!!!!
Then comes the RAW converter into play , in "our" case DPP .For me DPP does make only sense if you have PS CC or at least PS elements which is limited .DPP itself is also limited in options and functions compared to Lightroom , which offers a lot of tools for local adjustments .
DPP does not have such options , sadly . So again if you want to stick with DPP invest in PS and get better end results , of course there is a lot to learn to deal with all of the image editing stuff .
If you just want to stick with DPP i actually cannot help you really as i never edit in DPP the image to its final output ..... hope you understand what i mean . I just prepare my images in DPP always for further editing in PS ..... sometimes more sometimes less depending on the needs for the final output file .
So up to you how much you want to invest in your images ( time and money ) , i can help you further with my experience in DPP and PS as others can do too , here in BPN .
The 1D MK IV is still a good choice and great step coming from the 550 D , i shoot up to 6400 ISO with quite good results as long as you keep the tones well to the right inn the histogram without blowing the highlights .
Just ask Mr. Google about " shooting ETTR" !!! when shooting ETTR you have way less noise to deal with in post .
But for sure always shoot as low as possible with the ISO settings , but keep the SS high and get sharp images and deal wirth the noise later in post .
So my final suggestion to you is think about where you want to go ..... but you can PM me for sure ... you are welcome
Cheers ansd have a great sunday
PS : i am somehow limited sometimes because english is not my origin language , so if i sound a bit simple in wording it is because ...... i am the German with the "mid grey socks "
.. what that means ? you can ask others here in BPN .
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Hey Andreas,my end game is to be as good as I can possibly be. I want to try to get results I, as a somewhat picky person can be proud of. To that end I want to use DPP as my RAW converter we are here at this stage now. Eventually I want probably the full version of photoshop to be able to complete the (what I see) as second stage of post processing again to produce results of the highest quality I can achieve. I am very sure of how serious I am. Andreas I gave some personal details in my intro to this forum,a bit of a recent back story I'm not terrible affulent (rich in many ways though),the money already spent is huge to us. Not having lots of money where expensive tools are needed can be used as an excuse to not try. "Oh I need x first".
I don't want not being able to afford to stop me in anyway. My first purchases have to be tools to take images in the field I adore. So, I read hard and got a fine bit of glass first,then second a fine camera which has taken a while but is really where we are now!! With these tools I could if I had the ability take some amazing pictures . But I have a **** of alot to learn yet about really being familiar with the camera( especially) and my lens,I have no decent tripod capable of carrying these or head at this time which I would also like. but it's wonderful I'm starting to learn. I am very set on learning all of this just trying to keep things simple as well
So I know exactly what i'm trying to go for my friend things being not so easy wont stop me. I've put huge thought into how i'm going to make it happen NOW I can take pictures I can bank those learn about correct exposure reading light how the iv reads this. ETTR( yup read up, I think,I've got it: by exposing to the right we preserve the largest amount of digital data in the files.We expose to the right because if we boost exposure in post by definition we boost digital noise ,if I'm wrong tell me please) and all the other things. It's not in anyway that post isn't part of the big scheme it's a bit money and alot of other things that I feel are more important at this stage in my learning . I have tried to think all this through,deeply.
I'm very challenged by time Andreas,but hopefully it won't always be like this. Andreas I could do this privately but you guys are lovely and I have nowt to hide it might be easier for folks helping me if they know a little more about me. I'm pretty focused on this one have a pondered path in place. Wildlife is about right place right time which I have a certain amount of skillset a goodly dollop o luck and being on the nail (sorry fluent) in seconds with the camera in ones hands. I need to be completely conversent with this aspect. At the same time i'm taking pictures the odd one is sort of ok getting better ha and worse . But they are mine I can keep them and work on post later. All the time I pick up snippets about post no noise reduction on subject what layers can do gausian blurs(sounds like an exotic milk shake). i'll be slow buddy but steady. Tis all good Andreas little steps
Andreas I understand you just fine,this might make you smile. Engish is a horrible subject for me,it should be me apologising. I try really hard but hey I don't think I see letters quite like others do. This bit's good though I went to an english grammer school,my dad bless him got me special lessons as no one could help me. My english teacher was a german guy lovely chap , to my embarasement he failed too. I think we will be ok my friend..
We had a frantic sunday Andreas I hope yours was wonderful. We got out for an hour of two and watched 3 short eared owls hunting,my timing spot on they just got in the air as we arrived but my positional skills were almost shocking, I had one chance and was watching the wrong owl . But what a joy to watch them air dancing and diving.
take care
Stu
ps no the mid grey socks has no meaning though someone will explain i'm sure ,please forgive, I half feel I should not ask
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Wildlife Moderator
OK guys, I think now we all have a great grasp of the whole picture and so I think if you wish to exchange further then please do so via PM. The thread has been a great educational tool for Stu and there is a lot to take on board for him. Thanks a million to everyone in chiming in to help, we have all been there and know what it was like and a big thanks to Andreas
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I don't want not being able to afford to stop me in anyway.
We all appreciate that Stu, but occasionally our own budgets dictate things and sometimes we have to be patient, however (and you will note there is often a however with me), as I said earlier, digital photography also relays on PP, you cannot do one without the other. At this stage go out, enjoy yourself whilst taking images and build on both techs & fieldcraft and use DPP which is free to do your PP in. Yes, it's not the ALL encompassing software, but you can do a lot and I'm sure with Andreas guidance you will be able to hone your PP skills within this software. I feel once you have got to grips with things then in say six months time when you are further down the road, I'll suggest to you a way to get PS which will not break the Piggy bank and also you will know how committed you are with this choice of 'hobby' for a better phrase. I'll also suggest some books which will help and few people here know what I may suggest.
I appreciate time and access may be of a premium, so just pick your times when you go out to shoot to maximise your time, processing of images can follow, never do things straight away, perhaps leave it for a day or so, you'll see things clearer, trust me.
Finally, you cannot attach images within PM's, so Stu you may need to ask if that person is happy to supply their email address. To date I have not known anyone not to do so, but always good to ask first. Nice to see you interacting in other threads too, it's all about having fun.
cheers
Steve
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Post a Thank You. - 1 Thanks