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Thread: Wicked, Innocent and Wonderful

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    Story Sequences Moderator and Wildlife Moderator Gabriela Plesea's Avatar
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    Default Wicked, Innocent and Wonderful

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    This male Baboon looked so innocent to me, with that morning light falling on his face and those bright eyes fixed on something far away. Do not be mislead by his apparent innocence, he is quite a wicked character - at least in human terms - for he has an erotical relationship with just about every female in his troop and shows a rather poor social disposition towards the other members, be it young males or his own progeny. He does have the power to shape the destiny of his entire family, for now. Unchallenged, in good health, strong, and a very intense fellow...When I noticed him the light just began to burst through the clouds and I knew I had to wait patiently until he lifted his eyes. I only managed two quick frames, a number of vehicles caught up with us and the moment was over.

    I have two versions of this character, a B/W and a colour one. I personally prefer the B/W. It is more extreme than anything you've seen from me so far, but I like to play. In the past I have kept those rather "unusual" images to myself, but Steve said something the other day in a comment to one of my images that made me think twice about what I choose to share on BPN. At the risk of receiving heavy critique we should all try to get those creative juices going, nothing to lose really and we might learn a thing or two by the way:)

    So here it is, my Wicked, Innocent and rather Wonderful Baboon, a large crop (80%), will show you the colour version for comparison on request, and please do give me your thoughts, however they come:) You might find that blade of grass on the RHS quite distracting but I decided to leave it in...

    Nikon D4
    Nikon 500 F4
    ISO 500
    F5.6
    1/1250s

    Hope your week-end is a fun and relaxing one,
    Last edited by Gabriela Plesea; 10-02-2015 at 01:46 PM.
    Gabriela Plesea

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    Hi Gabriela -- What a character ! looks amazingly fierce , nice details and sharpness and i think due to a large crop the grains have arised and which in turn are adding to the b&w mood. A slight head turn would have been a bonus and i would have certainly healed out that OOF grass blade. And yes would love to see the colour version also. TFS !

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    Story Sequences Moderator and Wildlife Moderator Gabriela Plesea's Avatar
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    Thank you so much Hasseb, wonderful to hear from you!

    Here's the colour version, the grains are indeed part of the B/W conversion and intended to add "mood". You will find no grains in the colour version and no grass blade - which one grabs you more?

    This is fun, thank you so much for participating, very grateful for your reply

    Kind regards,
    Gabriela Plesea

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    Hi Gabriela, I just love this image. Fascinating fellow with crazy hair-do, glistening bright eyes and pose! I like how superbly you have brought out details and tones in both versions. I much prefer the colour version as the amber eyes are very captivating! He must be some character!! I prefer the blade of grass to go so another vote for the colour version! Super sharp and sweet BG! TFS.

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    Lifetime Member Rachel Hollander's Avatar
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    Hi Gabriela - What a captivating image and I like both versions. Try burning the highlights on the b&w version everywhere except the eyes. And yes, even I would clone out the grass in the b&w version since it is a more artsy image. I probably would have left it in the color, LOL.

    TFS,
    Rachel

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    BPN Member Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    Cracking portrait in great light Gabriela.
    I like both versions - and agree with Rachel on playing some more with the tonality of highlights in the B&W version?
    This image proves that great light often makes for compelling B&W as it creates such strong and rich contrast.
    Morkel Erasmus

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    Story Sequences Moderator and Wildlife Moderator Gabriela Plesea's Avatar
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    Hello Sanjeev, Rachel and Morkel,

    I first worked carefully on the colour version and in the process I removed that blade of grass, no NR needed and at F5.6 the BG faded nicely. I would have liked a tad more DOF, which I do have in another frame but the eyes look slightly down and this "serene" expression is lost. Later as I was browsing through this "Baboon folder" I stumbled upon this frame again and thought "let me see what it would look like in B/W", so I quickly did some work on it, ignoring the grass blade and other little things as I was not going to share it. I ended up liking the B/W more, it looked quite dramatic and there was something humorous about the hairdo, as opposed to the serious expression of the eyes. I liked that mixed feeling this image gave me, so much so that I decided to show it to you. I could have worked on the B/W more carefully but I only have so little time after work, I am often too exhausted to RP but still burning to share something and just be here on BPN with you guys:) Not easy to remove the blade after creating this "grainy" look to the BG so I will have to start from the beginning. Let me see what I can do to improve it, I like your suggestions very much. Thank you dear friends
    Gabriela Plesea

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi Gabriela, had to really take both versions in on the laptop, so my thoughts are not too specific although most have been covered in the above replies.

    Taking the OP I wonder if the B/W is to stark and that a more 'softer' and creating more depth could be looking at a Quadtone, wish they did it as a 16bit,but... I feel you need more tonal range and depth in the B/W which the colour conveys more, but that is probably because of the colours available? I like the crop and angle of the head, but the B/W looks a bit too over sharpened, again that might be down to the highlights created within the medium itself, is this a straight conversion in Silver EF? The 'blob' on the RHS just intersecting the hair needs also addressing as it's more evident in the B/W. I would burn some more on the lighter brighter parts on the chest, and parts of the head. I might darken the BKG to give/provided greater prominence to the face to pop more. DoF I feel needed to be much higher, even to the point of f/16, you had the ISO, light & a D4.

    Both are different and have their own individual merits, therefore IMHO you cannot compare the two, they are standalone .

    TFS
    Steve

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    Story Sequences Moderator and Wildlife Moderator Gabriela Plesea's Avatar
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    Hello Steve,

    Thank you so much for taking a look, I do understand what you mean about tonal range and also realise I did sharpen too much. I would like to try a new version here, even though I am so tempted by other Baboon images right now - I have Baboons like I used to have Lions, LOL!

    At the time I played around with this I looked at various ways of converting and remembered I had this not so good "friend" called Nik I have not spoken to for about two years, so I went to Silver Efex to see the possibilities but I could not bring myself to settle on a particular conversion, so I tried to achieve some of the effects I liked with burning, dodging and levels, etc. I liked the grain in one of the effects so I applied it to the BG at low percentage. Perhaps I should have just done a straight forward conversion for more consistency, I don't know...My idea was to build this dark vignette around the edges of the frame and to allow lots of bright light to fall on his face: I wanted some kind of exaggerated "stage" effect on the Baboon to add an element of humour and to make sure you did not take his face/expression too seriously:)

    DoF, I am annoyed with myself for that, I am usually careful but with so many subjects of various size, some close and some far, some running and some not, I did forget on a number of occasions to check settings as I moved from one subject to another - a lot of deleting followed as I got home and looked carefully through my folders, althoughI think I have enough Baboons to choose from... Let me see what I can do, perhaps I should "tame" those creative juices a bit, LOL. I have more crazy images than this, and now I am afraid to show you, ha ha!!!

    Have a fabulous evening, and thank you again so much Steve, I always appreciate your kind and ever so thoughtful comments/advice:)

    PS Forgot to mention, this is an 80% crop and this chap was quite far away...
    Last edited by Gabriela Plesea; 10-04-2015 at 10:09 AM.
    Gabriela Plesea

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi Gabriela, if you are thinking about B/W then make a virtual copy, then convert from the RAW to B/W, don't convert from the colour as you will see things differently IMHO, it's the tonal range like a grey scale strip white to black. This should give you a better result. Dropping the highlights and or the White a bit may also help reduce things if you then feel you wish to use another software at a later stage. I would leave 'Clarity alone because of the possibility of using addition software, you'll just ramp up things like Contrast.

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    Story Sequences Moderator and Wildlife Moderator Gabriela Plesea's Avatar
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    I am doing so, Steve. And I never use clarity, not even when working with colour images - you told me this two years ago:)

    Been reading about Quadtones this afternoon...Does one ever stop learning, LOL?

    Anyway, let me start afresh...the evening is still young

    Hope you too enjoy your evening
    Gabriela Plesea

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    Lifetime Member Marc Mol's Avatar
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    Wonderful pose with fine lighting and detail extraction here Gabriela, my preference is for the colour version here for the reason of extracting that wonderful detail and lighting!

    TFS


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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Clarity has its' place, it just comes down when to use it in my book.

    Learning, that is the constant path we walk, just learnt something this afternoon myself, as I though this particular 'element' would have been implemented last, it appears to be one of the first applications after exporting to PS, time to adapt the workflow again .

    If you stop learning then it's time to hang your coat up .

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    Always learning, Steve!

    I would like some "clarity" regarding this "element" to be implemented "last" but which could come first, LOL. My workflow is erratic already so no problem doing first what I usually do last

    Oh well, since we are having a bit of fun, here's another experiment I did with my Baboon...

    Wishing you all a great week ahead,
    Last edited by Gabriela Plesea; 10-04-2015 at 04:12 PM.
    Gabriela Plesea

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    Story Sequences Moderator and Wildlife Moderator Gabriela Plesea's Avatar
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    Hello Marc, and thank you so much for viewing and feedback

    Still experimenting with various things, not sure anymore which version I like most but still great fun to share and then hear from my BPN friends:)

    Hope you have a wonderful week ahead,
    Gabriela Plesea

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    HAHA Gabriela, 'peoples' Workflow in principal should be consistent IMHO, with only slight variables dependent on the image, in that way you will have structure and continuity which aids in the key way in approaching/tackling an image, as most Modules take you through the right/correct procedure in a logical 'Step by Step' method in processing a RAW file .

    It was just me looking at tweaking/refining my own workflow after Exporting, 'perhaps', but I need to look at things more closely and if it is beneficial or not. It's just a refining point for me , nothing radical and something we all do as we learn and develop.

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    Story Sequences Moderator and Wildlife Moderator Gabriela Plesea's Avatar
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    Indeed, Sir
    Gabriela Plesea

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    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
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    Hi Gabriela the most radical impact has the OP ........ i love it . Catching my eye and grabbing my soul , your color and toned version well no impact on me !!!!!! As they do look too " mainstream " to me .
    So big congrats and two BIG thumbs up for OP .

    I might only go lower with the sharpening and VERY slightly burn the HL in parts but keep the overall look & feel .

    Steve - i know where you coming from with your thoughts regarding consistency in WF , but i have to disagree in parts as if all would keep the same track all the time and only have little variables in their WF we would end up with lesser creativity from my POV . I think we need people to break rules to open up minds from time to time , even if it does not " help" the image in first place .

    So Gabriela i think you should go on with your "headless" tweaks and follow your path ...... swimming from left to right .... sometimes more other times less , LOL ! Always good to see experiments !!!

    Enjoyed viewing this , your Buthi Andreas

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    Hi Andreas, by having 'consistency' in the WF of the RAW is to me, paramount in creating a file that forms a solid platform in which to build on. Following a methodical step by step approach you ensure you do not miss out a key ingredient whilst 'drilling down' as you work through each 'module' and IMHO will deliver that. What happens thereafter after Exporting is then down to the individual, as you are then 'refining' the file with additional elements/tweaks.

    If you tackling a RAW in an adhoc approach without a clear, logical approach then you are in danger of not doing your image any favours and where 'accidents' can happen. Also without a 'documented history' of your approach, if you need to go back and adjust/address something within that chain, how do you know where to start?

    However and yes there is a 'however', once you have gained a good grasp then perhaps you can occasionally go 'off piste', but I still feel working in a logical manner at the start is the way to go. You are not lessening the creative aspect just creating a more solid and robust foundation, the exported file can then be 'sculpted' into the vision you have for it with more refined tools if applicable as I mentioned earlier.

    I'm not suggesting that things become a straight jacket, however if the foundations are wrong we all know the consequences of what can happen.

    This is a discussion that I think could be a standalone thread in another part of the Forum, in an ideal world, something that is done in a conversation, as typing can be rather limiting, but for those who are starting out, or are still building in their own confidence and grasp, working in a step by step method is to me right and that it may also prevent bad habits setting in at an early stage which is not good IMHO .

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    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
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    I am with you Steve on all counts , no question , just think a breakout from rules can be fun from time to time , not saying it is not good to follow a track i do that myself as you should know . Difference is maybe that i.e. me is thinking i know what i am doing most of the time , LOL ! But also leaving my beaten track from time to time .
    And experimenting can be great fun , without thinking about the final result IHMO .
    And yes this can be an evening filling discussion for sure and typing is not the best media for discussing this Sir

    To sum this up for me , we are thinking very equal in general Steve , but sometimes i do have another view about something but for me no big deal , as your are british gentleman and i am german person that comes sometimes rough around the corner

    Kind regards your german follower
    Last edited by Steve Kaluski; 10-06-2015 at 02:48 PM.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    I think we are now really going off topic, but having fun, exploring yes, but for me there has to be a reason why you chose that path and not just on a whim or because of a piece of software.

    We are both rough around the edges, but like a stone, time has just polished some of the edges for me, I think!!!

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    Story Sequences Moderator and Wildlife Moderator Gabriela Plesea's Avatar
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    Good evening Andreas, good evening Steve:)

    I do not mind one bit you two hijacking my thread, or going off topic...your conversation made things interesting. And neither of you are rough around the edges...It is me who is rough around the edges, LOL. But always ready to adjust, chop and change...a bit of a chameleon, but as long as you don't get bored with my work I am happy to entertain you...However, my tools are not "refined" and I do not always have your logical approach to things, from time to time I do embarrass myself (having lost direction?) but ever so grateful to have someone put me back on track. I do have a workflow of sorts, but just like Shakespeare, wanting to be and wanting not to be, in my case "having fun or not having fun, sticking to the rules or just following a new path"...oh well, the eternal dilemma.

    So thank you both so much for your comments and discussions, much appreciated

    Warmest regards,
    Gabriela Plesea

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi Gabriela, glad you found the light hearted discussion of interest.

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