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Thread: Flashing owls at night

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    Default Flashing owls at night

    I am hoping that one of the experts here can answer this for me. Is it OK (ethical and safe) to use flash on owls at night for photography? Will the flash cause problems or stress the birds? Or will they simply view it as lightning or some other light source? Any information would be appreciated. (By the way, I have not done this, but am curious as I know of some photogs that do)

    Thanks,
    Fred Johns

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    I guess I should have searched prior threads a bit harder - as I have since found a similar discussion here before: http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...ash-harm-birds. In addition, there are other articles on this subject, both in favor (claiming no real harm) and against (claiming temporary interruption of night vision). If anyone else is interested in the subject those articles can be found at:

    http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAbou.../bp/guidelines
    http://www.naturescapes.net/article...y-and-the-visual-system-of-birds-and-animals/
    http://leemarcus.zenfolio.com/p61995...850B#h4068850b

    http://photo.net/learn/nature/owlflash

    The bottom line is that there seems to be no bottom line - no real definitive proof one way or the other.

    Regards,
    Fred

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    BPN Member Sandy Witvoet's Avatar
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    Thanks Fred... your last line sums it up nicely.
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    Lifetime Member Doug Brown's Avatar
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    I have used a fair amount of flash for both hummingbirds and owls. For nighttime owls I tend to use off-axis flash (this produces better lighting and has the side benefit that the owls aren't looking directly at the flash when it fires). I have yet to see flash temporarily blind a bird. Hummingbirds at multiple flash setups are able to perform complex flight maneuvers immediately after being flashed. And owls are able to fly, mate, etc. after being exposed to nighttime flash.

    Think about it this way. Are humans temporarily blinded by flashes? Think about celebrities being photographed at night by throngs of photographers. We do just fine, and I have seen no evidence in the field to suggest that birds have any more trouble than people do.
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    Lifetime Member Doug Brown's Avatar
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    Just have a look at Troy Lim's Screech Owl shots. These birds have no problem entering and exiting the nest cavity after being flashed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brown View Post
    Just have a look at Troy Lim's Screech Owl shots. These birds have no problem entering and exiting the nest cavity after being flashed.
    Yeah - actually, it was some of Troy's shots that got me thinking about this, and then several others. I've tried fill flash during the day, but never really thought much about night time. Seems to be strong opinions on both sides of this issue. I don't have a feeling one way or the other, but just want to make sure that whatever I do in the future, it does not negatively impact the birds.

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    Fred
    We've seen lots of angst on this subject, particularly from birders --- try posting it over on a birding list if you really want to get flamed.

    that being said, I agree with Doug - I've seen no ill effects for hummingbirds or owls.
    Don

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Nelson View Post
    Fred
    We've seen lots of angst on this subject, particularly from birders --- try posting it over on a birding list if you really want to get flamed.

    that being said, I agree with Doug - I've seen no ill effects for hummingbirds or owls.
    Don
    UNDERSTATEMENT ALERT!!! This sure is an understatement if I have ever seen one. This subject seems to come up on pretty much every forum, I appreciate the sanity here, rather than simply flaming over a subject that is, well, quite subjective. I, personally, have yet to completely form my own opinion, but I can respect both points of view.

    One thing I have noticed in my backyard, as I attempt to learn to use a Better Beemer better, is that often the birds on the feeders become quite startled when the flash goes off, but they don't if I don't use flash, which leads me to believe it is not shutter sound that startles them. Any thoughts on this? Perhaps I am using the Beemer incorrectly? The shots do not look over-exposed or over-flashed so I don't think that is the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dewey View Post
    UNDERSTATEMENT ALERT!!! This sure is an understatement if I have ever seen one. This subject seems to come up on pretty much every forum, I appreciate the sanity here, rather than simply flaming over a subject that is, well, quite subjective. I, personally, have yet to completely form my own opinion, but I can respect both points of view.

    One thing I have noticed in my backyard, as I attempt to learn to use a Better Beemer better, is that often the birds on the feeders become quite startled when the flash goes off, but they don't if I don't use flash, which leads me to believe it is not shutter sound that startles them. Any thoughts on this? Perhaps I am using the Beemer incorrectly? The shots do not look over-exposed or over-flashed so I don't think that is the problem.
    Bill
    Experience in over ten seasons of flashing hummingbirds at multiple sites.
    Most notably, those sites having multiple nectar sources (natural and manmade), when a flashed setup is put together, the same birds will come back time after time to the setup even though alternate sources are available without flashes on them. I've even had multiple instances of a single bird guarding the setup and driving others away (Annas and Broad billed are notable for this behavior within the US). So if the flash was hurting them, why would they exhibit these behaviors?

    Second, with owls in Arizona, its common for at least two sites that I know of for the owls to get heavily flashed every evening by multiple photographers. In spite of this they don't relocate. Further, in one instance a pair of owls sitting in a commonly used site gets flashed, and then male goes off to bring back a nice juicy centipede for his mate -- if he was "blinded" or otherwise hurt, how could he quickly hunt up prey for his mate? You will also note that there is no dilation of the pupils after flashing -- its so fast.

    Now with respect to a flash, consider how humans react to a flash -- most will blink the first time. Yes, they react but don't get blinded or bothered. Some people even get acclimated whereas some learn a reflex to blink at the flash. With birds, the effect is similar -- the first time flash will always cause a bit of shock. But permanent effects?

    I do believe that the birds seem to tolerate the flash, but I won't say that they aren't annoyed. I have seen multiple times that a few hummingbirds go through gyrations to reach the feeder if that route didn't get them flashed previously. But humans don't like to have flashes all the time either....

    This flashing bird subject with birders is similar to "those snowy owls are on the verge of starvation so don't go within 3,000 feet of them." This was disproved by fat analysis on roadkill snowy owls in the past two years. Yet so much information is just repeated mindlessly as though it was true.... Both Hitler and Stalin were quoted as saying if you repeat something often enough people will start to believe it, even if it is false.

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    Fred,

    I tried to explain what I have seen on Nikon Cafe last year to the two idiots that did not want to listen to what I have to say but to attack me personally. They both continue to do the same thing this year and I opted to not reply to their personal attacks.

    From all the years I have been doing photography using flash, I started doing off camera with multiple flashes last year. I have photographed a handful of nests so far, some are new, some were repeated nesting pairs.
    1. I have yet to see them refuse to hunt because of the flashes. I photographed them flying into the cavity with food as well as out of the nest, never once did I see them fly into any object or not landing perfectly.
    2. The continue to bring back prey after prey, feeding the babies.
    3. I do not spend more than 2 hours with them so that I give them space.
    4. None of the babies have any problem being flashes. I photographed the fledgling process last year on two nests. Babies have no problem taking off and land to the nearby oak trees to join their siblings.

    The bottom line is with both side of the arguments, you have to do what is best based on your ethical standards. We all have different level of ethics. I would not have continued to use those flashes if it has caused the birds to refuse to feed or them flying into trees or objects. I would not have put them in harm's ways to get the images. Most people think you can just show up with gear and flashes and you will get the shots. My friend and I have spent a lot of time with the this species to learn about their behavior and feeding pattern. Those are 90% of the work to get the shot, the rest is just showing and waiting for the action.

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    Troy (and everyone else) - thanks for taking the time to respond. I figured this would be the place for a reasoned discussion. I'm always trying to learn and improve. I have played a bit with daytime fill flash, and with using a better beamer during the day. This summer, I want to try flash with hummingbirds. I just wanted to make sure that I'm not causing undue stress to the wildlife. I've come to the conclusion that the flash alone is generally not an issue, any more than flashes of lightning would be. I think that each situation has to be judged individually, based on the particular bird and how it reacts to the presence of the photographer.

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    This subject has been discussed across forums many times. Unlike the ones on Nikon cafe, people tend to have more civil discussion and have more knowledge and experience than the two in Nikon Cafe that were doing nothing but launching personal attacks.
    So far, the 3 nests I have photographed last year all have returned and raising the owlets again.
    Use your own judgement, to me, as long as I don't put my subject in harm's way by using flash and until US F&W ban he use of flash, I am ok using it.
    Good luck with your project.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Johns View Post
    Yeah - actually, it was some of Troy's shots that got me thinking about this, and then several others. I've tried fill flash during the day, but never really thought much about night time. Seems to be strong opinions on both sides of this issue. I don't have a feeling one way or the other, but just want to make sure that whatever I do in the future, it does not negatively impact the birds.
    Also regarding your observation on the strong argument part from both sides. The problem with the other side is that those photographers are only passing judgment based on what they read online. Just like Randy, who has never gone out and experienced photographing owls or other subjects at night. Being book smart is one thing but being book smart and using it to attack other people without knowing or experiencing it is another. Not to mention, he is a hypocrite, just check out his website, his owl album has plenty of shots of owls being flashed and some even showed the bait in the frame.
    If he were such purist, I would have respect for that guy, but not for an hypocrite. I did not see him going off at Hector on his recent trip to the Santa Clara ranch for his night time owl shots. :)

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    I echo everyone's comments about no real impact noted. I have been photographing nocturnal wildlife now for just about six years and am yet to see any real negative impact on the subjects after I have photographed them using flash. From the ethics perspective, I don't photograph my local Aussie owls from the time that they are just about to begin incubating until the chick(s) hatch, as that may cause them to desert - well, at least that is what most researchers I speak with suggest form studies, so best be considerate.

    I have also found that individual animals all have different tolerance levels to being flashed.

    My worst experience have/has been the one(s) that don't like light or flash, they will simply go around a tree trunk (if a mammal) or fly to a different perch (owls or birds). In time it is possible to "work" with many different species and begin to understand their behaviours when put into these situations. One can eventually tell when to take pictures or not.

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