1D Mark IV VS 7D Mark II Image Quality

[Stratos Diakoniarakis]

I know all of the specs for both cameras and have read pretty much every review/comparison between the the 1D4 and 7D2 but I still can't decide which I want to get. I can find a low shutter count 1d4 in very good condition for as much as a new 7d2. Considering image quality only (RAW noise performance), which is better? I've seen some sites post image comparisons where the 1d4 looks better and others where the 7d2 look better. Do any of you own both and can help me come up with a decision? I know about the rest of the performance features of each camera and I've pretty much decided that I prefer the 1d4 functionality and feel but I want the best image quality. I currently own a 70D and 1D Mark III. I'm not happy with the image quality from my 70D and want as much of an IQ improvement without going full frame since I prefer wildlife photography. Thanks in advance!

[Juan Carlos Vindas]

Stratos, I own both cameras and even though I have not used the 7DII as much as the Mark IV I will say that the files of the Mark IV are cleaner at high ISOs (1600 and up) and of course the Mark IV produces files with more detail than those of the 7DII. For me, the Mark IV will keep on being my primary camera.

[Karl Egressy]

I had a chance compare them when my wife bought the 7D Mark II. I did the shooting indoor on a target that had fur and other fine details.
From a short distance of 20 feet, the IQ looked almost identical.
The noise level at ISO 1600 was less on the 1D Mark IV file but not much.
Then I traded in my 1D Mark IV for a 7D Mark II.
Based on shooting results on the field, the 7D Mark II performs well and produces excellent IQ files
at ISO 400 and ISO 640.
Bird in flight shooting, however, is a disaster so far, but I might not have the right setting.
The 1D Mark IV was excellent for BIF.

[Dennis Zaebst]

Hi Fred, There is more discussion of this topic here on the forums:

http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...rk-iv-or-7d-ii

My own feeling is that there is enough question about the AF capability of the 7DII to hold off and would choose a 1D4 in good condition for now. Later, Canon may fix the issues through firmware updates, although when that will happen is up in the air.

[Dennis Zaebst]

Hi Fred, There is more discussion of this topic here on the forums:

Oops, sorry Stratos, I addressed my message to the wrong person. The referenced link was started by Fred Woodman. My apologies!

[Stratos Diakoniarakis]

No problem, I appreciate all replies!

[Marina Scarr]

I would hold off on purchasing a 7D2. I have a 1D4 and as considering it. However, many are experiencing focusing issues and returning their bodies. Canon is looking into the issue.

[Liam Behan]

Hi, I’m new to the forum, Iposted this reply on another thread, but was reading this post and thought I may have something to offer here also. I mainly shoot sports and theatre, but recently started with some bird photography, mainly static,. I have had many EOS camera’s to date. From 400D 550D 40D 50D 60D 7D 5D Mark II & III 1D3 1D4 6D and 1DX. My all time favourite is the 6D of which I have two. But for sport and anything that moved I was using my other all time favourite, the 1D4, owing to its Crop, functionality, FPS, and brilliantly simple but super effective AF,

Me and the 1DX didn’t work out. It was a little too heavy and too big for my liking and I always felt I had spent to much on the body!.

Anyway, I sold my old 1D4 6 weeks back and bought the 7D2 mainly for the 1.6 crop and I bought into the Canon hype L . Big mistake!!, first body was so soft I returned it. I was using the new 100-400 II + 1.4x III and the 70-200 II. No amount of MFA could solve the softness. Second body was sharper but again issues. Even after MFA, sharp was still not sharp “especially” in AI Servo. The centre point AI servo on my 6D is much better! with this camera sharp is always sharp. I also found the AF in general to be hit and miss especially in low light. However, when shooting with a flash the images where super sharp which is a mystery to me. I also found the camera excessively ISO noisy past ISO 800 I’m usually at 3200 for sports and with the 1D4 the images although a little noisy clean up really nicely and quickly. I don’t feel I should have to labour in DPP and Photoshop to produce a quality image. After all a 1999.00 Euro investment although much less that the 1DX is still a substantial investment and the camera should be the heavy lifting.

I loved the 7D2 form and its responsiveness but AF and Image quality are its real weak points at the moment. In my humble opinion that is. I dumped my old 7D in a hurry over the same issues and they now seem unsolved? I bought the Arash Hazeghi AF guide a few years back and in it is a table that compares the 1DX – 5D3 1D4 and 7D and explains how the power from the battery electrical circuitry drives the lens – after reading this, in my minds eye I see it like this. The 7D2 is a Ferrari body with a Porsche gear box but with a kia engine and a dirty windshield. I may have all the bells and whistles but has it got the power to drive them? I think the AF is to complicated for the body and sensor too poor for the price - And that’s why the 1DX is so special! You can’t make a silk purse from a sow’s ear. I feel that maybe canon should have given the 7D2 the AF from the 1D4 and the sensor from the 6D

So, today I bought a used mint 1D4 with only 12,000 actuations from my local dealer and traded back the 7D2, I was so disappointed he allowed me full rebate against the 1D4. I put my 70-200 II on the body and fired of a few frames, Yes its heaver, it was louder, felt more clunky, but it was SHARP and needed no MFA and most importantly of all I don’t feel like it will let me down at the critical moment. I will photography an event on Sunday, the All Ireland 60 metre hurdle U23 and junior national championships, the race is 8 seconds over 5 hurdles, if I miss it I cant re shoot! It, I also would not want to spend 100s or even 1000s to go photograph exotic birds to only have the camera let me down. So maybe the 7D3?

Sorry it was long and for any spelling errors…

Liam

[Rod Prouty]

I've had two 1D4s and while I think they're great cameras I wouldn't trade my two 7D II for them. The 7D II work great with my 100-400 IIs, y 500 and my 800.
7D II with 800mm lens, ISO 1600.

[Liam Behan]

Hi Rod, no image, if it's of the red Cardinal I seen it in your other post. Great image! I also seen your eagle photo what did you take that whit?

[Stratos Diakoniarakis]

So I had purchased a 7D2 but ultimately returned it. The image quality in good to decent light was better than my old 70D and a touch better than my 1D3, but I wasn't really happy with how the autofocus performed in low light conditions and most images came out soft in even good light. I'm starting to think that I should get a nice used 1D4 which I'm seeing going on EBay for around $1900. I love the ergonomics of my 1D3, way more than the 7D2.

My main concern with the 1D4 is that it's focus points are cross type for f2.8 whereas for the 7D2 all are cross type at 5.6 and I'll be using either a Canon 100-400 II or a Tamron 150-600 which of course are not fast lenses. So then will the 7D2 focus better with the type of lenses I'll be using or is it possible that the 1D4 will focus better despite not being cross type at f5.6? This concerns me because I wasn't really happy with how the 7D2 performed even in bright light.

[Rod Prouty]

So I had purchased a 7D2 but ultimately returned it. The image quality in good to decent light was better than my old 70D and a touch better than my 1D3, but I wasn't really happy with how the autofocus performed in low light conditions and most images came out soft in even good light. I'm starting to think that I should get a nice used 1D4 which I'm seeing going on EBay for around $1900. I love the ergonomics of my 1D3, way more than the 7D2.

My main concern with the 1D4 is that it's focus points are cross type for f2.8 whereas for the 7D2 all are cross type at 5.6 and I'll be using either a Canon 100-400 II or a Tamron 150-600 which of course are not fast lenses. So then will the 7D2 focus better with the type of lenses I'll be using or is it possible that the 1D4 will focus better despite not being cross type at f5.6? This concerns me because I wasn't really happy with how the 7D2 performed even in bright light.

I have two 7D IIs and haven't had any focus problems with my 100-400 II, 500, or 800. I've used the 1.4X III with the 100-400 and 500 and again no problems with focus.
Rod

http://www.pbase.com/rprouty/backyard_friends

[Stratos Diakoniarakis]

Most of my focusing issues were with birds in flight. But even stationary birds usually came out soft.

[Rod Prouty]

Most of my focusing issues were with birds in flight. But even stationary birds usually came out soft.

I haven't had a many opportunities for birds in flight but I believe everything will be okay. I use AI Servo for everything.

Rod

[Liam Behan]

I have been using a 70-300 L IS with my 1D4 in AI Servo and it's perfect fast and sharp my 7D2 however with same lens does this

[Stratos Diakoniarakis]

Does what? The 7D2 doesn't focus well with that lens too? If that's true, that's a shame.

[Liam Behan]

Hi Stratos, it was an image to show the problem, here it is,

https://www.flickr.com/photos/454861...57650210747220

[Liam Behan]

I actually think the issue maybe light, AF not accurate in low light, I took some birds this morning and they are super sharp, All Noise Reduction OFF. I will post some when I figure how to post them up here.

[Stratos Diakoniarakis]

I just looked at your Flicker photos. That's pretty bad! What case were you using? I agree, I spoke to someone who takes amazing bald eagle photos first with a 1D4 and now a 7D2 too and he told me the same thing, that in great lighting the 7D2 can be amazing but in lower light it can have problems focusing. What I want to know is if that's really a common experience (it was for me too), and whether it's a fundamental limitation of the 7D2 or if it can be remedied through a new firmware. PR we're just using the wrong settings. I wonder how many with sharp shots in lower light are getting sharp shots due to flash. Thanks for your experiences.

Amazon just processed my refund and now I must decide whether to try a new 7D2 or buy a very clean 1D4 with about 55,000 actuations. I love the lightness of the 7D2, but it felt a little cheap to me in comparison to my 1D3, but better made than my old 70D. I know I'll enjoy the feel of the 1D4 more, despite the additional weight, I'm just not sure if a perfectly operating 7D2 will provide me a better experience ( image quality and autofocus). The thing is everyone I've asked who has used a 7D2 and 1D4 always tells me that I will almost certainly be happy with a 1D4, but most have told me that the 7D2 is very finicky, frustrating, especially in low light, but that when working right they don't miss their 1D4. I already had the 7D2 experience so I'm leaning towards the 1D4.

[Liam Behan]

I was using my 1D4 this afternoon and it is definitely sharper. Plus the images seem to just pop better. And noise cleans up real easy. It's heavy, but I suppose that's the price for a better camera. And he heft does balance nice Also I had contacted the store where I got my 7D2 from and it's going back tomorrow. Canon have agreed to swap it out for a new one from a later production batch. so maybe they know something is up but are keeping it quite. This will be my third 7D2 body. It's a pity as its a really nice body and features are great. Maybe it got released to early. I will use it for travel where good light is available here in Ireland the light is dull a lot of the time.

[Mike Hitchen]

Liam - It looks to me like a focus point issue because the parts tha are in focus are pretty good. What AF set-up were you using? AF on a dprinter tunning towards you is always a challenge and if you were tracking I would not be surprised if you moved the AF spot off the intended target momentarily and then you asking what the response time was for the AF.

[Liam Behan]

Mike,
I received my fourth 7D2 body from Canon on Friday and I seems the AI servo is working great and the camera is very sharp over all, its a later serial number so maybe the production run has been tweaked. You are correct about the autofocus maybe drifting a little as I tracked the runners, Also this camera seems a lot less forgiving to operator error than my 1D4. I was using centre point all surrounding active so perhaps an outer point grabbed the focus else where.

[Stratos Diakoniarakis]

Mike,
I received my fourth 7D2 body from Canon on Friday and I seems the AI servo is working great and the camera is very sharp over all, its a later serial number so maybe the production run has been tweaked. You are correct about the autofocus maybe drifting a little as I tracked the runners, Also this camera seems a lot less forgiving to operator error than my 1D4. I was using centre point all surrounding active so perhaps an outer point grabbed the focus else where.

I'm glad you're happy with your fourth 7D2, Liam. So which would you prefer image quality and performance-wise now? A perfectly working 7D2 or a 1D4? Which would you say has a sharper image with more details. What about the ai servo performance?

[Liam Behan]

Hi Stratos,
the 7d2 is a quicker camera to use and auto focus is definitely a lot quicker, plus the 1.6 reach is great making my 70-200 2.8 a 320 2.8 also he buffer is really awesome. I am Using lexar 2000x cards and it just keeps going. I'd say image quality ISO is similiar but 1D4 is a little sharper natively to about 1600 ISO. Over all I would prefer a correctly working 7D2 for sports and wildlife as I also have a 6D which I love and yes for all other photography. I also feel he 7D2 is less forgiving than the 1D4 and 6D its a more finely tuned af system but once mastered images are awesome, just look and what a master like Arthur Morris is producing.

[Mike Hitchen]

Thanks for your comments, Liam
It is certainly interesting to read your experience of 7D2 v 1D4 and I have read several comments (including Arash and Art) saying you really need to spend time getting to know the AF before making a firm decision. But I have to say this quality control (for want of a better phrase) seems to add a complication a new owner could do without: I know the 7D2 is a '1Dx on the cheap' but leaving so much apparent variability doesn't help the cause.

Your post 23-Jan talked about 'kia engine in a Ferrari body' - do you still feel like that? Or does overall performance offset those shortcomings better now?

[Liam Behan]

Hi Mike, This new replacment body seems more stable than the others I had, The AF is performing better, especially in bright light!. But still not great in lower light "for me anyway". It maybe my technique, plus the camera is still not so great at high ISO past say 1600. I also have bad tendencies to pixel peep a little or process images at 66%. I was shooting the other evening in late afternoon light trying to catch some Ducks in flight. I was using my 70-200 L IS II at a shutter speed of 1000/1 iso 6400 f4 for DOF. Back at home on screen the images did not look good at all, yet on the camera lcd they looked ok. The birds where a bit of a distance away so I was cropping 50% in PS and the images just looked really pixelated and contaminated. Yesterday I was photographing some Sea Gulls on a roof across a river and when I zoom in they looked terrible. Overall images looks fine, but detail is shocking on zooming in.

I was shooting a sports event some weeks back and had a lot of lost frames and coupled with that experience and overall experience of this camera, I would not trust the camera to deliver indoors for sports or in areas of low light. I have read lots of posts from sports shooters showing indoor shots, but to me their images looked soft and AF is very poor, but they seem happy? Also, all the really great birding and sports images I have seen including on here are in terrific light where 4000/1s is possible at 400ISO with a nice long 400/500/600 mark II prime lens.

My experience as an enthusiest who can't justify spending 6K on 1DX body and 6K or 10K on prime lenses, and using what i feel are good quality lenses 70-200 L II / 70-300 L / 100-400 L II - is frankly TERRIBLE.

If this cameras requires a 10k lens to get close so as to capture detail or a 6k 2.8 prime to capture birds flying or athletes running, I can't see the point in it, its supposed to be the Amateurs sports and wildlife camera and amateurs don't have 20k of lenses in their bag, well maybe some do!. I have made brilliant images with these lenses on my 6D and my (5D3 - now sold) and made the images in no different manner to how I was using the 7D2.

Cheers
Liam

[Mike Hitchen]

Thank you Liam.
To be honest the main attraction for me to upgrade from 7D to 7DII was the better ISO performance and it sounds like you get possibly 1.5 stops out of it - and while I know the best thing is to upgrade the glass first this nagging little gremlin keeps whispering 'nice shiny new camera' in my ear. The more I read about the 7Dii the more I am thinking it is superb first purchase to go from (for example) 60D to 7Dii but maybe not so attractive from 7D to 7Dii.
So back to the glass option it is.

[Liam Behan]

Thank you Liam.
To be honest the main attraction for me to upgrade from 7D to 7DII was the better ISO performance and it sounds like you get possibly 1.5 stops out of it - and while I know the best thing is to upgrade the glass first this nagging little gremlin keeps whispering 'nice shiny new camera' in my ear. The more I read about the 7Dii the more I am thinking it is superb first purchase to go from (for example) 60D to 7Dii but maybe not so attractive from 7D to 7Dii.
So back to the glass option it is.

If you looking for a jump in ISO the 70D is also an attractive option at the price. My brother has one and he gets great images with it. Its fast enough for most photography and the AF is suited to the body power? check out what Brutus Östling has to say http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/...the_eos_70d.do Plus you may have some leftover for new Glass!

[Joe Subolefsky]

Guess I'm the oddball but I've had just the opposite experience with the 7DII. I find my own to be just as sharp as my 5DIII and I sold my 1D4 when I got the 5DIII because the 5DIII had much better color.

I've had mine from the day they came out and love it the only issue for me was learning DPP to process the RAW's. But Arash and Artie's guide made that pretty painless once I opened my mind to it.