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Thread: The two Machaton boys feeding

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Default The two Machaton boys feeding

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    The two boys sitting down to feed, ripping off huge amounts of flesh, muscle etc with great ease. As it was still early morning their warm breath occasionally 'clouded' some detail, not hugely noticeable, but review parts of the video, it is there. The light was enough to bring out the raw 'freshness' of the carcass. The dark part at the foot of the image is part of the Buffs nose I think, well certainly it's part of the outside.

    It's amazing how easily these guys consume vast amounts of food at one sitting, eat your heart out 'Man vs Food!'.

    Steve

    Subject: Lion brothers feeding (Panthera leo)
    Location: SA
    Camera: Canon 1DX
    Lens: 200-400f/4 HH
    Exposure: 1/500s at f/5.6 ISO3200 EV +0.67
    Original format: Landscape, FF

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    Story Sequences Moderator and Wildlife Moderator Gabriela Plesea's Avatar
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    Dear Steve,

    First of all, thank you so much for this post - I have been wondering (since I joined BPN) whether the members would mind a bit of "raw flesh" and was not sure whether to post something similar from my 2012 folders.

    I like what you have captured here - this is a typical lion kill scene, I have seen quite a few and your image triggered some memories: it's all flesh and blood and guts and often one gets to capture a more interesting expression from the subjects as well as lots of action.

    My guess is you were at some distance from the scene, in an open vehicle, but could not change position? I would have loved to see some eyes but it looks like the lions were so delighted with the flesh that their ayes are almost closed...

    You took this at ISO 3200 - I am thinking I would have probably pushed the ISO higher ( I know your gear can handle it) to be able to shoot at higher aperture (7.1), although not sure it would have made a big difference as I do not know how far you were from the scene Shooting at 5.6 had its advantages: you got a clean BG as well as some "depth", or "dimension" to the image, having the one lion in focus and the other not.

    Surely you have quite a few images (at various settings) of those two lions eating, I am curious whether you have some where the other lion is in focus? Sorry, I have many questions for you because this image made me think a lot about the choices you had and the decisions you made, my next thought being you probably focused on the lion that was closer to the kill because the flesh of the kill is in the same focal plane - that is (to me) what makes this image and the place where my eyes are drawn (to the flesh and the lion with its tongue out).

    I sat and wondered for a long time before I replied to this post, trying to make sense of it all, this seemed "unconventional" to me at first yet I liked it so I had to figure out why. I almost always tend to focus on the animal closer to my lens, but in this instance I would have probably made a mistake doing so. I would have ended up with one sharp lion on the right and the rest of the image OOF, at F5.6...

    This image -to my mind- is a case of "making the very best of the circumstances" , the light was good but not perfect, your position perhaps not ideal, yet you are such a mastermind when it comes to planning your shot! I have learnt something here, and that is - to experiment more and plan my shots better in the future.

    Love the colours and superb processing as always, sharp where it counts. But I am most impressed with your thinking, I have learnt something valuable here

    Warmest regards and a big Thank You for the lesson,
    Gabriela Plesea

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    Lifetime Member Rachel Hollander's Avatar
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    Hi Steve - I've looked at this a couple of times and also have the advantage of having been sitting beside you. I know the light and conditions were tough especially because we really could not change the position of the vehicle due to the steep incline of the riverbank. However, this one doesn't really work for me because the rear lion is mostly blocked and the closer lion is slightly soft due to its movement and the shallow dof (some of my own images don't work for me for the same reason). These brothers seemed to be constantly moving and blocking each other. Also light was often at a premium so it was difficult to get sufficient ss and dof without cranking up the ISO. Sorry, but as I said it's the same reaction I've had to some of my own captures.

    TFS,
    Rachel

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    A cracking reply as ever Gabriela, you really do have a way with words and it's always a real pleasure just to read them, compare to, as you know my brief replies.

    Yes, we could have moved, no problem, but as I said before, these guys were constantly moving the whole carcass around and so IMHO it's best to keep not moving and hope they will settle down, but as you know, all kills attract a lot of unwanted guests, so these guys just wanted to eat as much as they could in a short time. We were in the shelter of a very steep hill and so way below the light and light was always changing, plus increasing the EV reduces the SS. Yes I could have gone higher, but using a zoom lens like the 200-400 is not as 'crisp' as a fixed lens, so I really wanted to keep things as low as I could compared to say Rachel, who was using a fixed 300f/2.8.

    Sometimes you get clear eyes, other times it's a trade off, you will just have to be patient, but you have seen an image with eyes clearly visible if you remember.

    Distance was about 20-30ft away, so enough space for all. Yes I had focused on the rear lion eating as you said, not enough DoF to get both in, but that wasn't the point, it was trying to portray a moment in time and the event. I don't have the 'wordsmith' you have and so hard to put into words, and far easier for me to talk about the shot & emotions conveyed that 'hunt & peck' on the keyboard. in a scene like this there is so much going on it's often hard to 'capture' the scene. Classic example is the WD's we saw and both Rachel & I shot completely different even with Rachel right behind me.

    Cheers
    Steve

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    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
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    Hi Steve , i looked at the image three times and i see your usual IQ and very nice processing .
    I like the intimate tightness and the inclusion of the carcass, does not look to ´bloody´whatsoever Gabriela is referring to.
    Great detail and tones , reflecting the situation you described .
    I do see a slight tendency to the green side of the spectrum , most obvious in the fur of the lions , not sure if you wanted it that way ? So checked with the eyedropper !

    I remember you asked me , what is the rational thinking behind the image i posted , i just give the question now back to you . I am with Rachel about the scene ,about the lion in the front blocking the one in the back where the focus sits.
    I do not understand why this looks unusual just because the main interest ( that is mostly where the focus locked on) is partly hidden , i am referring to Gabriela´s comment.

    But i am mostly surprised that you post this , because you are the Godfather of clear views/shots . But ok , it is different .

    Thanks for posting this .

    Cheers Andreas

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    But ok , it is different .
    Precisely Andreas, rather than a static portrait I had ideas in my mind what I wanted to try and capture before leaving, stepping out of my comfy pair of slippers and trying something different, whether it works or not, well...

    I was trying to convey the eating of this carcass, tongues rasping away, others pulling flesh & sinew, as they consumed the Buff, plus with a limited DoF you are not going to get everything pin sharp and I didn't want that, lions constantly moving, I wanted to draw the viewer into the image and beyond the FG lion, pulling you in so to speak, trying to create that layering of an image. I wish you could have been there Andreas to see for yourself. As I mentioned, this image is not about clear line of sight and perhaps goes away from all the clean, single/solo animals we have all posted, it's easy to isolate and produce 'portraits', personally I just needed to break away from certain perimeters I for one have put in place over time and shot some images away from perhaps my norm. Also the 200-400 as you know gives you far more scope and so it was nice not to view things through a fixed lens, although that was next to me on the other 1DX , you have to make a choice as you know on the spot and grasp it, right or wrong, hedge hopping in choice of shot & lens will lose the image.

    I'm cool with the colours.

    We will see in time what unfold with other images... but being out there is still awesome and great fun

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    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot for your precise thoughts on this one , really appreciate that . And yourself also told me not long ago ,one can avoid stupid questions by making a proper intro .

    As you left your comfy slippers and experimented , i still do sit in my comfy chair and look at this and think well ......... i was not there , so very different .But if you never try , you will never know . Remember my extreme portrait of the Big Horn sheep .........

    So go on with your experiments , always good see food for thoughts even if the food does not please all of us ....... .

    And yes being out there is for sure awesome and mostly great fun.

    Thanks again , Andreas

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    BPN Member Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    Some good discussion going on here.
    Gabriela, you shame me with your in-depth lengthy replies as I am a very lazy typer on forums (I love expounding on my own blog but that's a different platform and the writing takes on a nature of its own when I am in that mode).


    I don't mind the front OOF lion but do wish the in-focus lion's nearest eye was just-just visible below the OOF one's chin (hope that came out right).
    I like the rasping tongue and your precise control of focus here, Steve. Nobody mentioned it, but I do notice a greenish cast on the lions and the carcass...
    Morkel Erasmus

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Trust you get the same if not better sighting later Andreas.

    Cheers Morkel, but I'm OK as I said with the colour as I would assume it would also carry in the whites? If anything a slight tweak of the R channel as it's running 225, 230, 230?

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Andreas/Morkel this is taking 1pt out from below the quatertones in both the R & B Curves channels, however I did mask 40% in on the chin as it lost tone even with such a small reduction in the channels.

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    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
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    Looks better to me , good move in the right direction.
    Meanwhile you posted this i did myself another version , but corrected in LAB and then back into sRGB.No fear of blowing detail in LAB .

    Just my take .

    Cheers Andreas

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    Story Sequences Moderator and Wildlife Moderator Gabriela Plesea's Avatar
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    Hello Steve, Rachel, Morkel, Andreas

    ...since my name was mentioned above here and there and there are some things I would like to add: there's something special in this image which I have not mentioned, and that is the shape of the remains of the kill: I am quite sure you noticed the "fan" shape of the ribs belonging to the rib cage, quite dramatic and I cannot help to notice the almost "ecstatic" if not "tranquil" look there from the lions. Because this is no feeding frenzy - the image was taken some time after the kill, the lions have already had their fill and now enjoying the last bits of flesh. Just an observation

    Andreas, this image is unusual to me because the focus is not on the subject that is closer to the lens (less conventional). The main interest here could easily be the flesh of the kill and the tongue, in which case I would choose my title carefully in order to help my audience see what I want them to see. Detail is important to me - not only where the image is concerned, but also with regard to the story behind it and anything that may contribute to creating a particular impression on the viewer. Title is of utmost importance, it makes one want to open the thumbnail

    Steve, your replies are often brief but to the point, something I strive to achieve. Yet I fear I shall disappoint you if I wrote only a few lines and worried only about the technical details

    Wishing you all a great week-end,
    Gabriela Plesea

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Yet I fear I shall disappoint you if I wrote only a few lines and worried only about the technical details
    Don't ever change, and techs are just part of it, this is why it's so important to have different people with different ideas, thoughts, expressions in words etc, it would be rather boring if we all were the same.

    Enjoy the weekend, I think you will.

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    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
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    Hi Gabriela and Steve i fully accept your views and thoughts.

    For me the only really issue is the fact that there where the focus is , there is most important stuff not visible ....... the eye , the eyes are normally making an image come alive , unless the animal is having a rest and is dreaming , which also could look good or interesting .
    For me the carcass is part of the story , but not the most important part., Because i think the photographer would not have taken an image of the bare carcass , or would he ?
    I have no problem at all with the OOF lion , he just blocks the point of main interest , all saying this from my POV , not meaning i am right with my thoughts.

    And at last i do not think this an unusual image , just because you have the focus point on the BKG animal and not the front one, if i get you right Gabriela .

    Hope that clarifies my thoughts more , folks .

    Thanks again Andreas

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    Forum Participant edwardselfe's Avatar
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    Wow - what a discussion. I have enjoyed reading. Sadly my internet will not allow an essay but just to say that I am happy to see something different and any image that is so sharp and well exposed deserves to be kept, let alone one with such an interesting subject matter. It's not necessarily a work of art, but as an illustration of a lion kill and all the interactions that occur (including between two lions) it's perfect. Even having the less obvious subject in focus conveys the awkwardness of photographing something like this. I usually put my camera down on kills and just watch, but this has encouraged me to have another go.
    Ed

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