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Thread: What percentage shot would this be?

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    Default What percentage shot would this be?

    I'm starting to get very frustrated with the quality of the AF of my gear. I'm currently shooting an a77 and 70-400, and the af tracking is so poor that sometimes I wonder if it does anything at all. It feels like whenever I do get a shot in focus, it's more luck than anything. I've been considering switching systems to canikon for presumably better af tracking performance, but I wanted to make sure that the grass is indeed greener on the other side.

    Could you please tell me what percentage of shots like these would come out in perfectly sharp on your system? I know AF is very much system dependent, so please let me know what setup you have.





    PS: In case you're wondering, the shutter is set to focus priority, so my camera seems to think that the bird is in focus. (The first case is actually fairly typical of any bird that's big enough in the frame to be worth keeping)

    PPS: No the focusing system is not malfunctioning. Static shots come out just fine.

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    Lifetime Member Doug Brown's Avatar
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    The first frame is not a particularly challenging shot from an AF standpoint. So assuming that you've got enough shutter speed and that you've got the bird in the center of the frame, the keeper rate should be quite high. The second frame is considerably more challenging for both the AF system and the photographer (a varied, low contrast BG), so I couldn't give you a keeper rate estimate. I'm not all that familiar with Sony gear, but I suspect that both Canon and Nikon have better tracking AF. What's your price range?
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    If I sell all my sony gear, I should be able to fetch at least 2500 dollars. I'm willing to contribute a little bit more, but being a student, can't go wild. I was thinking either a canon 7d or 70d as a body and either the 100-400 is or the 400mm prime. In nikon terms, I was thinking d7100 and 80-400 VR, or d610 and the upcoming tamron 150-600 (assuming it doesn't have the same af issues as the canon version).

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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    How big was the bird in the frame?

    Good call by Doug. First one is no challenge. The second one depends on the camera AF capability and the skill of the photographer, it is more difficult than the first frame although I wouldn't call it that challenging as the bird is quite large and doesn't fly very fast/erratic. For a skilled shooter with descent gear percentage of sharp frames should be pretty high for both.

    Keep in mind the Canon/Nikon gear you are referring to are pretty low-end so it's not the best for flight (especially against a varied BG) but I suspect it would still be better than Sony.

    Good luck
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    In that price range the only lens that comes to my mind would be the 400 5.6 which you should be able to pick up used just under a grand and is a great lens. That still leaves you with 1500 for a body, maybe a 60-70D or even used 7D. Not super great stuff but it would have to be better then the Sony.

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    How much can I expect out of the 70d/7d 400mm f5.6 combo? Would it be able to track avocets with any regularity? How about the spectacular owl flying towards the camera shots?

    This one is approx. 12 mp crop from 24 mp. The geese are both full frame.



    If I upgrade, I want it to be able to at the very least track avocets, stilts, and harriers. I'm fortunate to live close to the Palo Alto Baylands, and I want to have a reasonable shot at capturing the harriers if/when they decide to make a run at the shorebirds.
    Last edited by Grant Yang; 03-26-2014 at 11:32 AM.

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    Super Moderator arash_hazeghi's Avatar
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    Hi Grant,

    I used to shoot in the baylands frequently when I lived in Palo Alto. In fact most of my Avocet / stilt shots are from this location which provides unique opportunities : http://ari1982.smugmug.com/Avian/Sho...1608223_WH47Dx

    Unfortunately the 7D and 400 will struggle with the birds you mention in baylands against varied BGs. It will get frames here and there but hit rate will be low and inconsistent so you have to try many times, especially for stilts (it's a difficult bird to capture in flight against varied BGs) and harriers. 400mm is too short for harriers anyway. If you want to capture these birds consistently with a high success rate you need a 1D4/1DX or 5D3 camera with a super-telephoto lens and lots of skill on top of that. I would try to find a used 1D4.


    Good luck
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 03-26-2014 at 11:57 AM.
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    Thanks, Arash. That's the information I needed. I'm not in the position to afford super-teles right now, so I'll stick with what I have until I can go all the way. I took a look at your gallery. Excellent work!

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    the Sony A77 is a very good camera , and have a very good AF-system , you can compare it with the canon 7D ,ore the nikon D7000/D7100 , and if you compare your lens , with the canon 100-400 , the sony is better , only the nikon 80-400(new-version) is the same.
    first i need to now the exif , do you shoot with the middle AF point , did you have it on AF-C , did you use the range-limiter on the lens ??????? the lens is than faster
    did you use micro-adjustment ?????
    your gear is good enough , you dont have to go to another brand , birds in flight is difficult and need practice
    ofcourse , you cannot compare a zoom-lens with a fixed-lens , a fixed lens is alway`s faster ,in a few month`s there come a new A77 , and it shall be a very good camera.
    i shoot most of the time with the A77 , and sometime`s with the FF , the A99.
    when you have questions , please ask
    all the best
    gustav

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    Hi Gustav,

    Good to see you on BPN. I have to kindly disagree about the tracking capabilities of the a77. It's sufficient to occasionally get a great shot, but it's very difficult to do so with any consistency. Whether that's better or worse than the canikon equivalents, I'm not sure. I have no doubt in the hands of a very skilled photographer such as yourself the results will be very good.

    For the record, I generally use the center cluster with af-c focus priority for bif. The af seems to work fine on static subjects, so I don't think the microadjust would help.

    Grant

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    Lifetime Member Doug Brown's Avatar
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    One thing to remember is that while good gear is important for BIF photography, it's the skill of the photographer that is the most important factor.
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    hi grant , if you dont have back ore frontfocus that is good , when i have a new lens ,it`s the first thing that i do , make sure that i dont have back/front focus
    sometime`s i use also zone-AF
    i photograph flying puffins , and vulture`s , and it`s not easy , and what doug also say , you need also practice .
    when i photograph flying birds , i try to have a shutterspeed at 1/1000 , if possible more , but at least 1/1000
    and ofcourse , i have also failures , a monopod will also help

    gustav

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brown View Post
    One thing to remember is that while good gear is important for BIF photography, it's the skill of the photographer that is the most important factor.
    I agree with this, shooting thousands of shots with good technique will increase your keeper rate substantially, but you'll eventually hit a wall that's related to the limitations of your equipment, particularly for BIF. Arash nicely laid out the hierarchy of Canon bodies. The AF tracking ability, accuracy and consistency varies considerably from the low end to the high end of that hierarchy.

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