Palila

[tommy adkins]

Hello, looking for any input.
First post but please do not hold back. All feedback is appreciated.
Thank you, Tommy

Palila on Mamane

[Sandy Witvoet]

Hi Tommy!
Cool (first image here?) post! I really like "birds in environment" photos, and do enjoy how complementary the colors are here, as well as that the bird seems to having a nice snack! There may, however be a bit too much tree in the image, which (especially since it has lots of small leaves and berries), kind of overwhelms the pretty bird. Many other members here are much better at the technicals than I am.... so it's important to post your camera settings too!
Looking forward to seeing more birds of Hawaii! Good going!

[tommy adkins]

Hi Tommy!
Cool (first image here?) post! I really like "birds in environment" photos, and do enjoy how complementary the colors are here, as well as that the bird seems to having a nice snack! There may, however be a bit too much tree in the image, which (especially since it has lots of small leaves and berries), kind of overwhelms the pretty bird. Many other members here are much better at the technicals than I am.... so it's important to post your camera settings too!
Looking forward to seeing more birds of Hawaii! Good going!

I seem to always have with the crop. How much is too much. A lot going on for sure. Thank you for the feedback and mentioning camera settings too.

[tommy adkins]

Camera settings:
ISO 3200
0 ev
f/14 @ 1/2500
500 + 1.4
I was trying to catch some less rare birds in flight so my settings are pretty high.
Thank you,
Tommy

[Randall Farhy]

Hi Tommy, welcome to BPN! A very nice first post and treat to those of us here that don't see much in the way of birds from Hawaii. Agree with the too much tree comment above, it's all about balance-since the details are strong and colors are similar to the bird, having the bird larger in the frame here would work better, if it were a pine or something with less color, a larger spot for the tree would be ok.

Settings- I don't know what camera you're using-however, most camera sensors start to loose critical sharpness above f11-you will realize more DoF with smaller apertures, but critical sharpness starts to wane. (There is a scientific term for this and it varies by sensor. The 7D for instance starts to drop off at F6.3-F8 if I'm not mistaken.) That said, you could've been wider open with a much lower ISO, which depending on camera, would yield cleaner results. I wouldn't take Bird images at 3200 on my 7D's- the camera can handle the ISO fairly well, but the fine details on bird images tend to get lost with N/R and PP. Just a couple of thoughts, nothing is ever set in stone.

Edit- another consideration RE High ISO- the higher the ISO used, the more critical accurate exposure becomes. You start to loose usable dynamic range and even slightly underexposed images, or shadow areas, really can suffer.

[tommy adkins]

Hi Tommy, welcome to BPN! A very nice first post and treat to those of us here that don't see much in the way of birds from Hawaii. Agree with the too much tree comment above, it's all about balance-since the details are strong and colors are similar to the bird, having the bird larger in the frame here would work better, if it were a pine or something with less color, a larger spot for the tree would be ok.

Settings- I don't know what camera you're using-however, most camera sensors start to loose critical sharpness above f11-you will realize more DoF with smaller apertures, but critical sharpness starts to wane. (There is a scientific term for this and it varies by sensor. The 7D for instance starts to drop off at F6.3-F8 if I'm not mistaken.) That said, you could've been wider open with a much lower ISO, which depending on camera, would yield cleaner results. I wouldn't take Bird images at 3200 on my 7D's- the camera can handle the ISO fairly well, but the fine details on bird images tend to get lost with N/R and PP. Just a couple of thoughts, nothing is ever set in stone.

Edit- another consideration RE High ISO- the higher the ISO used, the more critical accurate exposure becomes. You start to loose usable dynamic range and even slightly underexposed images, or shadow areas, really can suffer.

Shooting a Nikon D3, agree with the sharpness falling off around f11+. Was caught with my pants down when this guy showed. I think I got lucky with the exposure.

Would you clone away some of the tree? I'm tempted to do away with the top half of the rhs and zoom in a little tighter but keeping the bird out of the center. Thoughts?
Thank you,
Tommy

[Doug West]

This is a tough one to decide on how to crop.

If you crop off the right side and leave more space on the left, you have the bird looking
into the right frame.

If you crop off the left side, you now have the bird looking into something, but you might
end up with to much tree.

So I'm thinking of trying a more vertical crop, leaving more room on the right. This will
still give you some of the tree and a place for the bird to look out of.

Doug

[Iain Barker]

Welcome to the forum Tommy.
This is a bird I have not seen before but you seem to have captured it well with nice detail.I have to say if you hadn't mentioned the iso I would not have guessed it was so high. I agree F14 is a bit too high and even for flight shots you could reduce this and the iso and still keep a high shutter speed.
I agree with Doug that the best way to go may be a vertical crop to loose some of the tree but keep a nice composition. To you question of how much of a crop is too much. The only answer really is it is too much when your image quality starts to suffer. It also depends what you want to do with the image if you just want it this size on a web page then it can be cropped more than if you want to print the image.

TFS and keep the images comming.
Iain

[Randall Farhy]

Changing aspect ratios can sometimes help-a 4x5 AR tightens L/R while still allowing the bird to sit on the rule of 3rd's line, leaving room for that nice S shaped branch it's perched on to dominate the frame. I also patched some bright leaves at bottom right corner and one on the right edge higher up. This took a lot out of the frame, not sure if the original file would support this much of a chop. Also, there appears to be a blue sky reflection on the bird just under the shoulder which could use some local brush work.

Edit: An alternate in the standard 2x3 A/R-As other's mentioned, larger crops can still be ok for web presentation.

[tommy adkins]

Changing aspect ratios can sometimes help-a 4x5 AR tightens L/R while still allowing the bird to sit on the rule of 3rd's line, leaving room for that nice S shaped branch it's perched on to dominate the frame. I also patched some bright leaves at bottom right corner and one on the right edge higher up. This took a lot out of the frame, not sure if the original file would support this much of a chop. Also, there appears to be a blue sky reflection on the bird just under the shoulder which could use some local brush work.

Edit: An alternate in the standard 2x3 A/R-As other's mentioned, larger crops can still be ok for web presentation.

I really like the 4 x 5 crop. It had not occurred to me to position the bird that high in the frame, great suggestion. Exactly why I came to learn. Thank you!

[tommy adkins]

Thank you all for the great information and suggestions.
What a great welcome to the forum. Exactly what I was hoping for.
Thank you very much.
Tommy

[Diane Miller]

I'm late here -- good suggestions above. Good to have you here -- it's a great place to learn!

I love Hawaii and this is a gorgeous bird!! Here's my thought on a crop. It can be a tough choice on some images. I just took a little off the top and left. Also did a Shadows-Highlights adjustment to see how it would look with a little less contrast. But that's not the way to do it -- it needs to be done in the RAW converter for best and most controlled results.

I'd also suggest including as much information as is practical on processing -- that is as important as the shooting specs, to me.