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Thread: Mule Deer sporting a winter beard

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    Forum Participant Leigh Cojocar's Avatar
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    Default Mule Deer sporting a winter beard

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    Canon 60D, 70-200L 4.0, ISO400,200mm,f4.5,1/1250 sec

    Adjustments in LR.

    I was lucky enough to spot this guy a couple days ago, circle around in the direction he was heading and hike out to where I thought he would cross my path.

    lying on the ground waiting for him for 10 minutes left me frozen stiff (-25C, -37 w/ wind) I took a peak over the knoll just enough to see him standing on the other side about 75 yards way, I ducked back down and hoped I wasn't busted.

    Another 5 minutes passed and I could see a set of horns making its way across my field of view down in a bit of a draw, I thought the bucks would stay down in the draw and I wouldn't get a picture but a couple seconds later the bigger buck had turned and was coming up out of the draw straight towards me, he closed in about 25 yards before stopping to have his picture taken.

    After I had taken a few pictures of old neck beard, and seeing that the other buck was pretty small I jumped up and darted back to my truck as the two deer did the same in the opposite direction.


    CC very welcome!
    Last edited by Leigh Cojocar; 12-10-2013 at 11:01 PM.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi Leigh, the image looks very coarse and quite noisy for ISO400, so in your processing was the image under exposed and or is this a large crop?

    I might look to dropping the exposure a little and upping the whites. Sadly the detail/detail isn't quite there and although applying some slight mid tone and sharpening it doesn't quite get to where the image needs to be. Based on the posting I would suggest applying a little NR to the BKG also. Based on the techs, I would suggest f/5.6 just to give a bit more DOF as you had enough SS. I like the look to camera and the way the snow is congealed to the neck, however I think some cropping off the top & to the RHS would help, but the IQ will suffer sadly.

    Please feel free to participate in other threads as it's a geat way to learn.

    Cheers
    Steve
    Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Forum Participant Leigh Cojocar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Hi Leigh, the image looks very coarse and quite noisy for ISO400, so in your processing was the image under exposed and or is this a large crop?

    I might look to dropping the exposure a little and upping the whites. Sadly the detail/detail isn't quite there and although applying some slight mid tone and sharpening it doesn't quite get to where the image needs to be. Based on the posting I would suggest applying a little NR to the BKG also. Based on the techs, I would suggest f/5.6 just to give a bit more DOF as you had enough SS. I like the look to camera and the way the snow is congealed to the neck, however I think some cropping off the top & to the RHS would help, but the IQ will suffer sadly.

    Please feel free to participate in other threads as it's a geat way to learn.

    Cheers
    Steve
    Thank you for your reply.

    I just noticed now that I am again having issues with posting a sharp image. I don't know what the deal is, but I can just never get a good photo on to the internet. In LR this picture looks a 1000 times better.

    The only place I seem to be able to load sharp images is flickr.

    This photo i posted is the same image, only resized to 1200 pixels, max size 400. I don't know what gives.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/leighcojocar/11280669066/

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    BPN Member Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    Steve's given some good advice already, but I like this image a lot. It could go a tad sharper - good practice would be to sharpen one round extra on your normal setting and see how it uploads. Loving the pose and the snow beard - looking forward to your input on other threads too Leigh.
    Morkel Erasmus

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi Leigh comparing the two images side by side (BPN & Flickr) there seems to be no difference at all to IQ, to me they are/look the same.

    If you want to fire off the original RAW via dropbox to either Morkel or myself, perhaps then we would be able to advise you on the steps need to ensure a good presentation of your image.

    Steve
    Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Lifetime Member Rachel Hollander's Avatar
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    Hi Leigh - my colleagues have covered the critique well. I do like the snow "beard" as it makes the shot unusual. I wonder how long he carried that around for. You could try the sharpening actions posted by Morkel in the sticky at the top of the forum which both resize the image and sharpen it. You'll have to modify the action for BPN's 1200px size and then make sure you adjust the opacity of the sharpening layer and/or adjust the mask.

    I too look forward to your participation in other threads.

    TFS,
    Rachel

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    BPN Member Andreas Liedmann's Avatar
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    Hi Leigh,
    like the snow beard with deer attached .Makes the difference to other deer shots. There are some technical issues that are already covered by the the other guys, nothing to add from my side.

    TFS Andreas

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    As a mule deer specialist I like this quite a bit. It's a great buck with beautiful heavy dark antlers.. The snow beard is something I've never seen in 30+ years of photographing mule deer. Tech issues are all ready discussed.. I know I'd love to photograph this deer.

  9. #9
    Forum Participant Leigh Cojocar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Hi Leigh comparing the two images side by side (BPN & Flickr) there seems to be no difference at all to IQ, to me they are/look the same.

    If you want to fire off the original RAW via dropbox to either Morkel or myself, perhaps then we would be able to advise you on the steps need to ensure a good presentation of your image.

    Steve
    I do appreciate everyones comments, this is by far the best response I have ever gotten from my photography and it is what will drive me to continue as the rush that was provide in capturing this picture was nothing like I have ever felt before.

    But I am baffled to find out that you believe the IQ of the image posted, and the one on flickr are in fact the same (or close) and am now wondering what is wrong with my computer. For me the image I posted, and the one on flickr (which is the closet to what I am seeing in LR) are night and day when it comes to sharpness or IQ, I am really lost how this could be.

    I would appreciate very much if someone else would take a crack at this and maybe help me get to the bottom of my issue. I will admit the original was under exposed, I tend to get to excited when something like this happens and start point and shooting before actually thinking.
    Last edited by Leigh Cojocar; 12-12-2013 at 08:31 PM.

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    Forum Participant Leigh Cojocar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D. Robert Franz View Post
    As a mule deer specialist I like this quite a bit. It's a great buck with beautiful heavy dark antlers.. The snow beard is something I've never seen in 30+ years of photographing mule deer. Tech issues are all ready discussed.. I know I'd love to photograph this deer.
    Thank you, means a lot for someone specializing in mule deer. I also wonder how he managed to get all the snow and ice around his neck but I assume it would be from bedding down. The previous two or three days before this photo saw temperatures of -37C (-51,-52 w/ wind) I don't know if this would have played a factor but maybe its possible that when he was bedded down that his body heat along with his breathing caused the snow to stick to him and freeze quickly and slowly build up over time.

    He was with a smaller buck that did not have this, and I followed him to a group of 20 deer, again none had any sign of ice build up.

    He isn't very far from where I live and I will be out again this weekend in search of him.

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    Forum Participant Leigh Cojocar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morkel Erasmus View Post
    Steve's given some good advice already, but I like this image a lot. It could go a tad sharper - good practice would be to sharpen one round extra on your normal setting and see how it uploads. Loving the pose and the snow beard - looking forward to your input on other threads too Leigh.

    Thank you, I spend a lot of time looking at other posts on BPN but am way out of my league and find myself with nothing to offer to other threads.

    Steve suggested I send you some Raw files to maybe help me with some issues but your inbox is full.

    Thanks.

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    Forum Participant Leigh Cojocar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel Hollander View Post
    Hi Leigh - my colleagues have covered the critique well. I do like the snow "beard" as it makes the shot unusual. I wonder how long he carried that around for. You could try the sharpening actions posted by Morkel in the sticky at the top of the forum which both resize the image and sharpen it. You'll have to modify the action for BPN's 1200px size and then make sure you adjust the opacity of the sharpening layer and/or adjust the mask.

    I too look forward to your participation in other threads.

    TFS,
    Rachel

    I actually already had those actions but had forgot about them. I think I had some success!

    NVM, it looked good on the computer but when I posted it looked soft like the first one.

    would this have anything do with with having a retina display, because the 1200 pixel picture looks much smaller and sharper on my computer, but when viewed on the website its way bigger and blurry.
    Last edited by Leigh Cojocar; 12-12-2013 at 11:12 PM.

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    BPN Viewer Steve Canuel's Avatar
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    Interesting shot. My most photographed species and I've never seen anything like this either. Fortunately, he looks to be a pretty healthy buck and I'm sure he'll lose it on his own or find another buck willing to knock it off for him. I like the habitat here (was is snowing when you shot it?). Your repost looks "cleaner" (especially in the darker BG) but I can't offer any help on the viewing differences. Still think a little tweak might help this pop (although it may not be exactly how you saw it). How does this look?

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi Leigh, I have the files and will take a look. Hopefully with a combination of things we can get you back on track. Not sure on locations, but be great if you & Steve C could hook up, as he does have a lot of experience photographing deer.
    Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi Leigh, firstly now looking at your CRS file you need to up (+) your EV when in conditions like this and learn to read your Histogram on the back of the camera, however this will also effect your SS, so it does become a balancing act. The metering system will be fooled with the conditions, so you could find yourself shooting anything from 0 to +2, do not rely on how good it looks on the back of that screen, trust that histogram. In an ideal world you meter off the snow close to the subject, then make any further tweaks to your camera settings if required. The image is quite noisy and the detail is there, but not great. I have no idea how good or bad the 60D is, but even at ISO400 you should be getting good shots and better detail. Obviously in this case being under exposed and cropping the image doesn't help as the IQ will drop, I would look to using a 1.4x to extend your focal length unless you have a longer lens, however this will lose you stops & SS.

    Having converted the image I do feel that your issue lies more in the original than in uploading, in essence nothing changes as you are uploading direct from your DT and not using a 3rd party.

    Hope this helps.

    Steve
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    Forum Participant Leigh Cojocar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Canuel View Post
    Interesting shot. My most photographed species and I've never seen anything like this either. Fortunately, he looks to be a pretty healthy buck and I'm sure he'll lose it on his own or find another buck willing to knock it off for him. I like the habitat here (was is snowing when you shot it?). Your repost looks "cleaner" (especially in the darker BG) but I can't offer any help on the viewing differences. Still think a little tweak might help this pop (although it may not be exactly how you saw it). How does this look?
    Looks good, the buck stands out more from the background in your picture then it does in mine and you have got a lot more detail in the antlers. Was this selective boosting of saturation?

    as for the difference in IQ and sharpness I believe I have figured out my issue.

    When I view it BPN on my macbook pro, The pictures look way blurry then they do then if I view them in LR (or for some reason Flickr lightbox seems ok) But If i view the pictures on the BPN website on my phone or Ipad the pictures look way better. Is this something do with the resolution of my browser on my computer?

  17. #17
    Forum Participant Leigh Cojocar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Hi Leigh, firstly now looking at your CRS file you need to up (+) your EV when in conditions like this and learn to read your Histogram on the back of the camera, however this will also effect your SS, so it does become a balancing act. The metering system will be fooled with the conditions, so you could find yourself shooting anything from 0 to +2, do not rely on how good it looks on the back of that screen, trust that histogram. In an ideal world you meter off the snow close to the subject, then make any further tweaks to your camera settings if required. The image is quite noisy and the detail is there, but not great. I have no idea how good or bad the 60D is, but even at ISO400 you should be getting good shots and better detail. Obviously in this case being under exposed and cropping the image doesn't help as the IQ will drop, I would look to using a 1.4x to extend your focal length unless you have a longer lens, however this will lose you stops & SS.

    Having converted the image I do feel that your issue lies more in the original than in uploading, in essence nothing changes as you are uploading direct from your DT and not using a 3rd party.

    Hope this helps.

    Steve
    Yes, as soon as I got back to the truck I realized I should have been over exposing. I'm pretty new to this and tend to forget that I can't just point and shoot the camera and expect great results. I was also to scared to move around much while I was taking the picture, along with being frozen. lol.

    I wasn't sure before if we were seeing the same quality of photo, but now realize that the image you see on the BPN site might in fact be of better IQ then I am seeing on the site.

    I was worried before your critique was based on a way lower quality photo then what I originally had on the computer, but that does not appear to be the case and is in fact something to do with how my computer views BPN as the picture looks way better on Ipad/phone on BPN.

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    BPN Viewer Steve Canuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leigh Cojocar View Post
    Looks good, the buck stands out more from the background in your picture then it does in mine and you have got a lot more detail in the antlers. Was this selective boosting of saturation?

    as for the difference in IQ and sharpness I believe I have figured out my issue.

    When I view it BPN on my macbook pro, The pictures look way blurry then they do then if I view them in LR (or for some reason Flickr lightbox seems ok) But If i view the pictures on the BPN website on my phone or Ipad the pictures look way better. Is this something do with the resolution of my browser on my computer?
    I tweaked you original post using levels and curve adjustments in photoshop elements, masking away the effects on the parts I didn't want to change (keeping the whites darker when lightening the whole scene, lightening the shadows when darkening other parts, etc). I've never had to make any kind of monitor or browser adjustments specific to BPN to view images so I'm still no help there.

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    When I open the image in Flickr it actually looks less sharp than on BPN. It's most obvious on the OOF vegetation below and just surrounding the deer.

    I have no idea why.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi Leigh, as I said, looking at the RAW the IQ isn't that great and therefore even for web, the quality will drop. My advice is use this as a 'stepping stone' and use the info gained for the next series of images. Also having to lighten the image considerably will bring up noise to. I would read through Artie's blog about 'ETTR' exposing to the right, it will certainly help you. If you want I can also sen you something about reading Histograms too.

    cheers
    Steve
    Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Forum Participant Leigh Cojocar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diane Miller View Post
    When I open the image in Flickr it actually looks less sharp than on BPN. It's most obvious on the OOF vegetation below and just surrounding the deer.

    I have no idea why.
    Weird, its the opposite for me but at least I know now that when I post something I am getting a honest critique and not one of a lower IQ photo then I am seeing on the computer.

  22. #22
    Forum Participant Leigh Cojocar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Hi Leigh, as I said, looking at the RAW the IQ isn't that great and therefore even for web, the quality will drop. My advice is use this as a 'stepping stone' and use the info gained for the next series of images. Also having to lighten the image considerably will bring up noise to. I would read through Artie's blog about 'ETTR' exposing to the right, it will certainly help you. If you want I can also sen you something about reading Histograms too.

    cheers
    Steve
    When you say the raw file IQ isn't that great, what would my issue be? I've never had my camera or lens calibrated and I sometimes thinks I am getting less sharp photos then I should be shooting at higher SS but have just chalked it up to be inexperienced.

    Yes, I will take anything I can get my hands on. I do understand the basics of a histogram a bit.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Leigh, with regard to this image to me:

    The image is not exposed correctly, it's under exposed
    You are cropping and loosing IQ
    All FP are used rather than say the centre spot on the subject
    There could have been a slight camera shake due to coldness and or excitement
    You needed I feel a bit more DOF
    Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Forum Participant Leigh Cojocar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kaluski View Post
    Leigh, with regard to this image to me:

    The image is not exposed correctly, it's under exposed
    You are cropping and loosing IQ
    All FP are used rather than say the centre spot on the subject
    There could have been a slight camera shake due to coldness and or excitement
    You needed I feel a bit more DOF
    Alright, thank you very much for your time.

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