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Thread: Cropped too much or not enough

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    Default Cropped too much or not enough

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    Another charging bear from my last tour in Katmai. I love the water beard on this guy. I thought about cropping closer but I already took out 35% of the image and at ISO 1600 I get a little worried.
    Wonder if I still took too much but I wanted the water off the face to be the central focus.
    5D MarK III, 500 F4, F 8 1/1000, tripod, wimberly head, kneeling in the water.
    clarity and decrease highlights in LR 5.2
    luminosity mask, levels, reverse linear curve in curves, sharpened, size reduced and saved for web. ( Steve, notice no Nik, you've had an affect on me) Only sharpened face to leave water more natural. Still wrestling with sharpening wet fur but it looks like it looked at the time to me.
    As always, comments appreciated.

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    Hi Stan.

    I think you are worring tooo much. Its a really great image just as it is...! I think if you went in tighter then you might loose context, ie that this bear is actually charging through the water and probably chasing something (fish?). To see a bear with water simply dripping from its face would not so impressive IMHO.. I love the steely look in the eye...

    DON

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    Forum Participant edwardselfe's Avatar
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    HI Stan - this is an interesting one and not easy to choose a crop. Can we see the full size image so that we can discuss more?I like what you've done but since you're undecided, perhaps we can throw it open and everyone can have a look!

    For a 65% (remaining) crop, the IQ looks excellent. That'll be the 5D3! I'd like to see a bit more contrast in the splashing water and the green background...perhaps one of these famous luminosity masks might help you - but leave the bear as I think you've nailed that, with perhaps little more sharpening, although I understand your reluctance on that one!

    Ed

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    Stan, this is a shot full of action and I think ti works well as you have posted it. However it is not really possible for us to comment on whether it is the best crop without seeing the full frame.
    I've never shot bears (with a camera or a gun ) but I wonder whether it is possible to get a bit more life into the eyes? They look very small and beady and a little bit of colour would lift the image IMHO.

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    I think it's an amazing image. wouldn't change the crop. the 5D mark III is an amazing camera, isn't it? I'm still dreaming of 'shooting' a fishing bear. Great job!

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    BPN Member Anette Mossbacher's Avatar
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    Hi Stan,

    again a fantastic image of a bear catching fish. I can see the "victims" too. Great one. I would ask for a tad more room on LHS. FF would be great to post, that we can throw our thoughts in for a crop, if you like !
    I agree with the eyes mentioned above, you might can pull more out of them!!

    Have a great day

    Ciao
    Anette

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    Lifetime Member Rachel Hollander's Avatar
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    Hi Stan - Love the action and intensity of the bear. First impression before even reading your intro was that it is too tight on the lhs. Hate to say this but this one doesn't have an embedded color profile either. If it were mine, I would tone down the brightness of the water. Go ahead and post up the ff image. It will help with the crop discussion. Love the 5D3.

    TFS,
    Rachel

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    Lifetime Member Marc Mol's Avatar
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    Agree with Rachel on the LHS framing is a little tight and would try a lumo mask to take down the water highlights, the intense look and water beard are the highlights here, nicely done Stan.
    TFS


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    Thanks for all the comments guys, here is the original, no processing.
    I did do a luminosity mask on the OP, but it sounds like a I need to do another.Name:  untitled (1978 of 2065).jpg
Views: 78
Size:  280.9 KB

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi Stan, as you know, the explosive power of these awesome animals can be instantaneous, so achieving this was good, as for once the head is clear of the spray created by the run.

    With an image like this, I do feel you could plan for it, as these animal make token lunges before the big strike so you get to know what to look for, and with your experience Stan you are probably best equipped to know when to pull the trigger. I think you needed to therefore make the decision ahead of time, do I want a wide angle shot or a tight/dramatic/impact shot, in this way you can reduce the fateful large crop, as YOU have taken control and know what you want to achieve. Based on the FF, personally I would go wider, conveying the environment/habitat and the water being displaced by the bear. I would also consider using a bubble level to ensure the horizon/land is horizontal, or like the 1DX does the 5D have a built-in level?

    Stan, I'm not saying don't use NIK, we all know when used by people like Chas it has a huge and dramatic impact on the final file and knowing what you can do at PP stage also may help when shooting out in the field. However, I do feel people need to understand the basics of PP before buying truck loads of software and using these powerful tools without the understanding of how to use it and more importantly, what effect it has to the image.

    Just taking you FF image this is my take, I have had to frame it like this as the IQ is not there to enlarge. Colours might be off as I'm away and using the MB Pro. FYI all I did was some simple tweaks in LR and my own version of Luminosity mask.

    TFS
    Steve
    Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Forum Participant edwardselfe's Avatar
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    I've had a stab at your image with my processing, and I see the challenge you face... It's a tough situation and I think you did well. Perhaps a crop like this? This has ended up over-sharpened, and I'm not completely happy with the processing, but thought it might bring some ideas from others too.
    Ed

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    Story Sequences Moderator and Wildlife Moderator Gabriela Plesea's Avatar
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    Brilliant action shot Stan!

    I guess just about everything has been said above, just wanted to add my thoughts briefly.

    I prefer Steve's RP, Edward's seems a bit too wide on both sides and since the subject is rather large in size it appears a bit "squashed" if one takes off too much from the top and bottom.

    On the other hand, why not just crop less on the LHS ? (I am now referring to the OP). I like the initial crop with the bear "in your face" so to speak, although it might need a tad of sharpening, IMHO.

    Looking forward to more bears from you,

    Gabriela
    Gabriela Plesea

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    Lifetime Member Rachel Hollander's Avatar
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    Hi Stan - I too like Steve's crop but think he's gone a little too dark (probably working from his laptop) and that the water is a little too sharp. Also he's removed the red from the bear but these bears often do have some red. You would know the coloring of this particular bear better.

    Also just a reminder to please disclose if you have cloned/removed anything (the gull in the op).

    This one is definitely worth reworking from the RAW file.

    Steve- the 5D3 does have a built in level.

    Rachel

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    Thanks for the comments guys.
    Rachel, I'll remember in the future, no love for gulls in my shots, just a personal preference. I'll use the level in the 5D 3 when shooting landscapes, but not fast moving subjects and when I'm moving my tripod around. I need to mount my bubble more often as it's cost me a couple shots when cropping ended up removing my part of my subject.
    Steve, I hope I don't sound defensive here as that's not my intent. This is a deep creek that's fairly wide. Not like the smaller ones on the coast. My clients and I had already hiked a half mile, then waded in to our knees or more. We couldn't get any closer. Also I counted 24 bears at one time so they are all around us which is why I bring another guide to watch our flank and we had to respond several times. We get close shots, we get some further away, but lots of brush and I don't want to move too much. Lots of bears running and chasing, some closer than others. Also, my comment on NIK was tongue in cheek as we say in the states. I appreciate that you and others kept telling me to use all the PS tools available to me first as it's improved my processing. I still have a couple nik tools I like and use.
    I'll recrop this one per your comments but I'll try and get is as close to the OP as possible and still maintain IQ.
    Edward, it's hard to get wet fur looking sharp period. A lesson in frustration.
    Thanks as always.
    Stan

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    Stan, awesome image and some good advice from all above. Great learning for me too. TFS.

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    Wildlife Moderator Steve Kaluski's Avatar
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    Hi Stan, no need for any apology, we know each other well enough and I fully understand where you are coming from. Typing replies can often be difficult, as no matter how many times you re read something there is always that one time someone interprets it the wrong way.

    In the location you were in, perhaps having a 1.4 in a pocket might have been helpful, or perhaps you already had one to hand? Walking in waders half a mile or more with gear is not fun, then to wait in fast flowing and at times, icy cold water does test your 'metal' and having done it, again I can appreciate your position. Where I was coming from was trying help avoid any heavy cropping, but it's always easier from this position, in front of a screen. All I want to see is where there is minimal cropping and your images maintain a high IQ and they illustrate your photography, passion and have 'stand out & impact'. I envy you being with such awesome animals.

    No worries about NIK, just enjoy and if it helps, great.

    cheers
    Steve
    Post Production: It’s ALL about what you do with the tools and not, which brand of tool you use.

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    Lifetime Member Andre Pretorius's Avatar
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    Phew, I am tired just from reading all the comments, I didn't even take the hike!!!

    A stunning capture Stan!

    I know the frustration in the field, not always in the exact right spot, with too much or too little lens- that is what makes us go back.

    I enjoyed ALL the crops, they each convey a different mood.

    TFS
    Regards

    Andre.

    www.gappimages.com

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    BPN Member Anette Mossbacher's Avatar
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    Sunday, time to come back to this great action shot.
    Feel like Andre, lots to read, have read all. I like the RP's very much.

    Have a great Sunday

    Ciao
    Anette

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    BPN Member Morkel Erasmus's Avatar
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    I missed some fun on this one!!
    My first thought was that i needed more to the LHS of our frame (bear's RHS). Steve and Edward's crops have sorted that out - I prefer Steve's tone/colour/contrast just a bit to Edward's.
    Great action here Stan!
    Morkel Erasmus

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    Steve and Ed's crop is spot on. Wonderful image.

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