Nikon D600 or Nikkor 400 mm f/2.8

[Bhasmang Mehta]

Hey friends

I am relatively new here on BPN. I am currently using Nikon D7000 and Nikkor 80-400mm VR lens. I mainly love photographing birds however I do photograph mammals and other wild life too occasionally.

I always do handheld and not very comfortable using Tripod.

If I wish to upgrade whether on body or lens should I do upgrading?

If I have to upgrade body Nikon D600 is what I have selected and if its for lens my choice would be 400 mm fixed aperture lens.

I need your suggestions friends...

1) what do you think I upgrade upon lens or body?

2) are the things I have shortlisted are perfect for the kind of photography I want to do

3) If I change the lens would D7000 and 400 mm fixed would be a good combination?

4) If I change the body would D600 and 80-400 mm would be a good combination?

Thanks

Best

Bhasmang

[shane shacaluga]

Hi Bhasmang

I am currently with the same dilemma and also with a D7000

I will comment my views on your 4 points:

Hey friends

I am relatively new here on BPN. I am currently using Nikon D7000 and Nikkor 80-400mm VR lens. I mainly love photographing birds however I do photograph mammals and other wild life too occasionally.

I always do handheld and not very comfortable using Tripod.

If I wish to upgrade whether on body or lens should I do upgrading?

If I have to upgrade body Nikon D600 is what I have selected and if its for lens my choice would be 400 mm fixed aperture lens.

I need your suggestions friends...

1) what do you think I upgrade upon lens or body? Usually they say to upgrade the lens over the body, but you state you dont like tripods too much so that could be an issue as the next step up is a big extra in weight unless you go with a sigma 50-500

2) are the things I have shortlisted are perfect for the kind of photography I want to do - For mammals you should have enough reach, for birds maybe not as good

3) If I change the lens would D7000 and 400 mm fixed would be a good combination? Yes as you would be able to drop ISO and increase shutter speed. The extra light would allow the AF to perform better too

4) If I change the body would D600 and 80-400 mm would be a good combination? very good but you would be sacrificing some pixels on the subject. IQ however is super on the D600


The options I am weighing up are either the new D610 to be announced in a couple of weeks (depends on the extra features over the D600), a D800e or a D7100

The 400 2.8 is a beast and unless you shoot very very low light i would go for a 500/600f4 instead

[Bhasmang Mehta]

Hi Shane

Thank you so much for the input. Yes I see your points. I have previously used Sigma 150-500 mm with my Nikon D60 which I had at that time. So if lens is to be changed I would go for 400 f/2.8

also please give your views about Nikkor 200-400 f/4G. Would it be worth a consideration?

Guys chip in with your point of views and suggestions please

Thanks

Bhasmang

[Markus Jais]

The 4/200-400 VR from Nikon is a great lens and used by many photographers. Particularly with large mammals this lens is fantastic but also with birds if you can get close enough. It will not replace a 4/600 VR.

For birds I would recommend a 4/600 VR or the much lighter 4/500 VR. The 600 VR is heavy (Canon lenses are now much lighter than Nikon super telephoto lenses). Add a 1.4x and you will have a great setup.
For hand holding the 4/500 VR will be much lighter. The 2.8/400 is also heavy. Of course this all depends on your physical strength. I do handhold my Canon 4/600 II (3.9 kg) and can do that for quite a while but still wish it would be even lighter (the Nikon is much heavier).

A good combination would be the 80-400 + the 4/600 VR + 1.4x and a D600 (or D610 once out) and the D7100 due to the crop factor and good AF system.

I am not sure if this really answers your questions but I hope it is helpful. It depends a lot on what you want to photograph and how shy the animals are in your area.

Markus

[arash_hazeghi]

Markus is right, 400mm is too short for general bird photography. If your main subject is birds try to get a 500 or a 600.

[Bhasmang Mehta]

Thank you so much Markus & Arash I really appreciate you for taking time out and reply.

Markus yes you have solved all my queries here. I checked the pricing of both 400 and 500 mm lenses here in India today. I would certainly go with 500 mm as it is lighter in terms of weight and reach wise is also better. As it is shooting in low light very rarely happens in India except you are in the Himalayas or during rainy season. Weight wise I have used Sigma 150-500 mm handheld for about two years and that lens was all about metal material and heavy so I can easily handheld 500 mm I am sure.

Markus you mentioned about using a tc now I would like to ask if I use a tele converter would AF work in the lens? Please advise

Thanks

Best wishes

Bhasmang

[Markus Jais]

Bhasmang, I do not know details about Nikon AF speed with 1.4x, 1.7x and 2.x. AF performance will certainly degrade a bit due to less light/contrast.
It also depends on the camera. A D4 will perform much better than a D600.

I use Canon. With the 1DX and my EF 4/600L IS II I often use the 1.4x and also the 2x. The AF performance does not drop much with the 1.4x III and the 2x III is also very fast (but only with central sensor on the 1DX).

I hope someone with more Nikon experience and the cameras you mentioned can offer more and better information.
I highly recommend testing them. Only get the latest Nikon extenders for the VR telephoto lenses. Don't save money on the extender.

If you are buying a completely new system you might want to have a look at the Canon lenses. Don't get me wrong, Nikon is fantastic and both systems have there advantages but the Canon lenses are now considerably lighter than the Nikon lenses (this may change and Nikon may come up with new lenses).
But I would only consider this if I was buying a completely new system. If you already have many other lenses from Nikon, it might be too expensive to switch.

Markus

[Bhasmang Mehta]

Alright thank you so much Markus I can see your point. I would wait for someone who uses/ has used Nikon gears to answer this query.

Yes if I am to choose the whole new gears I can surely try for the Canon but at present it seems very unlikely so I would keep it in mind for the future. Thanks a lot once again for your time.

Best

Bhasmang

[Jerry van Dijk]

HI Bhasmang, just to add to the TC query: Nikon states that the D7000 only has AF at apertures of 5.6 or faster (http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr...tibility02.htm), so if you if you will be using f/4 lenses you are restricted to the 1.4 TC.
That said, I do find reports on the internet that the D7000 will AF up to f/8 given that there is good light, but I have no first hand experience with this. I'm looking with what to replace my old 80-400 on the D7000 and had planned to get the 300 f/4 with a 2xTC until I ran into the AF issue.

[shane shacaluga]

I am using my D7000 with a 300f4 and a 1.7TC which is f6.7 and it does AF ok. With nice light its good even for birds in flight.

[Jerry van Dijk]

Thanks Shane, that is some very useful information!

[Bhasmang Mehta]

Thank you so much Jerry & Shane for your inputs to the query they are quite vital ones too...

Best wishes

Bhasmang

[Markus Jais]

Just one quick note: Money aside, if you want the best Nikon AF the D4 is the way to go. It also has a high frame rate which is great for action and the image quality at high ISO is great with the D4.

Markus

[Lyle Gruby]

Hi,

I shot with the D7000 and the 200-400 for a couple years. I recently upgraded to a 500 f4 and a D3S. You should definitely upgrade the lens first, but if you aren't worried about the weight or price, I'd get a 600 f4. It's about the same weight and price as the 400 f2.8 but with 1.5x the reach.

It's worth upgrading the body also, but you'll get much better results by upgrading the lens first. The D7000 has a very fast and advanced autofocus system even compared with Nikon's top of the line cameras.

I use an older teleconverter, and it's plenty fast enough for birds in flight. Most experienced pros don't really report any difference between Nikon's newer and older 1.4tc in autofocus speed or image quality.

[Markus Jais]

I agree with Lyle. I would upgrade lens before the camera or both at the same time. Lenses live longer and keep there value a lot better than cameras.

Markus

[Bhasmang Mehta]

Thank you so much Markus and Lyle,

Lyle your inputs are perfect and now I have decided to go for the lens upgradation first.

Markus yes I have seen results of D4 a fellow Indian photographer was using it and he had some wow shots of Darters fighting in water for the fish. After lens I would upgrade body ...

Thank you so much guys for all the help and suggestions.

I am sorry for the late revert but I was inactive on BPN since last 6-7 days or so...

Best wishes

Bhasmang Mehta

[Jacobus DeWet]

The 4/200-400 VR from Nikon is a great lens and used by many photographers. Particularly with large mammals this lens is fantastic but also with birds if you can get close enough. It will not replace a 4/600 VR.

For birds I would recommend a 4/600 VR or the much lighter 4/500 VR. The 600 VR is heavy (Canon lenses are now much lighter than Nikon super telephoto lenses). Add a 1.4x and you will have a great setup.
For hand holding the 4/500 VR will be much lighter. The 2.8/400 is also heavy. Of course this all depends on your physical strength. I do handhold my Canon 4/600 II (3.9 kg) and can do that for quite a while but still wish it would be even lighter (the Nikon is much heavier).

A good combination would be the 80-400 + the 4/600 VR + 1.4x and a D600 (or D610 once out) and the D7100 due to the crop factor and good AF system.

I am not sure if this really answers your questions but I hope it is helpful. It depends a lot on what you want to photograph and how shy the animals are in your area.

Markus

I use the Nikon 300 f2.8 VR2 with a TC 1.4 that gives me 420 f4 and the TC 1.7 that gives me 510 f4.8. this is used with my D800 and is a fantastic comination. the size of the lens allow me to shoot handheld or on support, the IQ with both TC's are fantastic and speed wise very close to the 400 and 500f4 with the TC 2.0 the 600 f5.6 start to lose noticeable IQ but the speed is still fine given the ISO ability of the D800. it is lighter and more cost effective and I have no problem travelling with this. I also use it on a D7000 from time to time but most of the time I have my 70-200 f2.8 VR1 with a TC 1.4 on the D7000 that also gives a very flexible set-up to use with the D800 and the 300 f2.8 with TC 1.4 the IQ of the 70-200 vr1 with TC 1.4 is very good and give effective range of +- 140 - 420 f4on the DX body. the 2 together makes for a great wildlife and bird combination. the D800 allow for a great amount of crop that retains exceptional detail.

[Dperkell]

Love my 400/2.8 however not for bird photography. For the large mammals it's the best! As well as 200-400. But birds 600mm is a must!