Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Separating blurred wingtips from background??

  1. #1
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Gibraltar
    Posts
    1,521
    Threads
    161
    Thank You Posts

    Default Separating blurred wingtips from background??

    Does anyone have an effective way of separating blurred wingtips from the background?

    I find that if i select around the wingtips, its impossible to tone down the background without it being very noticeable around the wingtips as part of the background colour shows through the feathers

    I have a couple I would like to process but I always get stuck at this point and not sure how to deal with it

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Daniel Cadieux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    26,266
    Threads
    3,976
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Can you post an example of what you are facing?

    Without seeing what you mean you may want to use a quick mask and with a soft edge to make the masking seamless at the blurred feather edges...

  3. #3
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Gibraltar
    Posts
    1,521
    Threads
    161
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Hi Daniel

    A couple of examples i just pulled out my facebook account

    The problem is that as there is background colour within the blur of the feather tips, in the case I need to tone down the background, I get a really obvious line around the birds layer

    I have tried feathering the edges but just get a smudged look which i dont like

    Any other suggestions that may work for this?

    Name:  886782_10151542410087037_1948675284_o.jpg
Views: 243
Size:  25.9 KB

    Name:  1052613_10151723916867037_1024413697_o.jpg
Views: 244
Size:  146.9 KB

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Daniel Cadieux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    26,266
    Threads
    3,976
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    For the top photo if you just want to bring down the blue you get get away with desaturating the blue channel on the whole image without affecting the subject (except in a positive way for the blue cast on the blacks). The bottom picture looks fine I would not touch the background on that one.

  5. #5
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Gibraltar
    Posts
    1,521
    Threads
    161
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Thanks

    I was using them as an example. Say the background behind the blackbird was really bright, some of that brightness would be appearing through the blurred tips

    My question is how to manage those situations?

    I will try to finish processing a pic of an egret taking off that I am having issues with. Will post it later on this evening

    Thanks for your help

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Daniel Cadieux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    26,266
    Threads
    3,976
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    I guess every image will have to be dealt with individually as far as process goes. The first image is a good example though of just desaturating the colour channel on the whole image if that colour channel is not present on the subject (e.g. red bird on green BG or black bird on yellow BG). You can experiment with the burn tool too...you can set it to burn only highlights (use a low exposure %) without affecting midtones and shadows.

  7. #7
    BPN Member Don Lacy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    SE Florida
    Posts
    3,566
    Threads
    348
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    [QUOTE]I was using them as an example. Say the background behind the blackbird was really bright, some of that brightness would be appearing through the blurred tips
    /QUOTE]
    Their are two methods I think would work here the easy way would be to use a brightness or curves layer with a mask and to paint out the affect with a soft brush on the wing tips the more complicated method would be a luminosity mask but for what you are describing a simple layer mask would do. If you do not know how to use layers and masks let me know and I will walk you through it
    Don Lacy
    You don't take a photograph, you make it - Ansel Adams
    There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs - Ansel Adams
    http://www.witnessnature.net/
    https://500px.com/lacy

  8. #8
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Gibraltar
    Posts
    1,521
    Threads
    161
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Thanks Don

    My use of masks is limited to the quick select tool really and then copying to a new layer

    Not sure how paint on a mask or how to use the soft brush to remove the effect on the wingtips

    Any info you can provide would be much appreciated

    Thanks ;)

  9. #9
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    1,991
    Threads
    192
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Hi Shane, an additional method that may work if colors of BG and bird are sufficiently different (like in the blackbird example) is to use color range selection. You'll find it it under the Select dropdown menu. You can use an eyedropper tool to sample the color to select and then move a slider to set the sensitivity of the selection. You need to experiment a bit to find the right settings. I've used it succesfully to select a sunset sky that I wanted to tone down against a complex horizon with loads of plants sticking out.

  10. Thanks shane shacaluga thanked for this post
  11. #10
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Gibraltar
    Posts
    1,521
    Threads
    161
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Thanks

    Will try this too!

  12. #11
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    1,991
    Threads
    192
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Attached Images Attached Images
     
     
    Hi Shane, I was curious whether my advice held up with your sample images. Here's the blackbird with the BG toned down one stop, using the color range selection option with the fuzziness set to 120. There are some artifacts showing up because of the low quality jpeg, but this should work fine with the original image.

    I also tried another option I sometimes use, the magic wand selection tool. When you play around with the tolerance, it can be a very precise selection tool. For the sparrow image, I set the sensitivity to 10%. Had to click around in the BG quite a lot, because of the different color shades present, but finally had the bird isolated from the BG. Did some refining of the selection edge (smoothing and feathering) and toned down the BG with half a stop. A whole stop created halos around the bird (they are already showing up a little here at half a stop, but that's a matter of fine tuning the edge probably).

    I think in most cases, toning down the BG a whole stop is overdoing it. The bird wil look conspicuously bright then.

  13. Thanks shane shacaluga thanked for this post
  14. #12
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Gibraltar
    Posts
    1,521
    Threads
    161
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Thanks Jerry.

    The RP's look better. Need to play around a bit and see how i get on.

    Will let you know if i come across any more hurdles

  15. #13
    BPN Member Don Lacy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    SE Florida
    Posts
    3,566
    Threads
    348
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    Hi Shane, Here is the results using a curve adjustment and layer mask I went really dark on the BG to create a lot of contrast to make it even harder normally I would not do this as it pulled alot of noise into the image but here it makes it easier to get an ideal of the effectiveness of using a layer mask. I will walk you trough the process in the next two panes. Also this took me about 5 minutes to do if that.
    Last edited by Don Lacy; 07-24-2013 at 12:29 PM.
    Don Lacy
    You don't take a photograph, you make it - Ansel Adams
    There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs - Ansel Adams
    http://www.witnessnature.net/
    https://500px.com/lacy

  16. #14
    BPN Member Don Lacy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    SE Florida
    Posts
    3,566
    Threads
    348
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    To use a layer mask go to layers > new adjustment layer > curves go to the curves dialog box and pull the mid point of the curve down until the BG is dark enough for you while this will darken the whole image only pay attention to the BG and when it is were you want it stop. Since you open this adjustment as an adjustment layer the mask is already active and filled with white which applies the adjustment to the whole image since we want to only apply it to the BG we are going to paint out the subject with a soft edge brush and the color black on the mask. To do this go to the color picker tool and make sure the top box is black if it is white just hit the arrow above the two boxes and it will swap out the colors once you have black selected your now going to go to the brush tool and select the brush after selecting the brush go to the brush drop down menu set hardness to 0 and adjust the brush size to paint in the body of your subject being careful to stay with in the subject once you have most of the body painted in adjust the brush to smaller sizes to do the head, wings, wing tips. Aways use a smaller brush then the area you are painting in and you will get a nice seamless blend. Now if you do mess up you can switch the color back to white and paint over your mistake switch back to black and redo it since it is on a layer and a mask no adjustment are permanent and you can discard the layer at anytime and your image will not be affected. Here is a screen shot showing where to find the tools needed and the mask it's a little hard to see but if you look at the mask you can see the black outline of the subject indicating that the adjustment was not applied on it.
    Don Lacy
    You don't take a photograph, you make it - Ansel Adams
    There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs - Ansel Adams
    http://www.witnessnature.net/
    https://500px.com/lacy

  17. #15
    BPN Member Don Lacy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    SE Florida
    Posts
    3,566
    Threads
    348
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Attached Images Attached Images
     
    Here is a screen shot of the Brush drop down menu
    Don Lacy
    You don't take a photograph, you make it - Ansel Adams
    There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs - Ansel Adams
    http://www.witnessnature.net/
    https://500px.com/lacy

  18. #16
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Gibraltar
    Posts
    1,521
    Threads
    161
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Thank you very much. The part about painting on the adjustment layer was where i was missing out.

    I suppose this works for all adjustment layers correct?

  19. #17
    BPN Member Don Lacy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    SE Florida
    Posts
    3,566
    Threads
    348
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Yes I will often have 5- 10 layers all with mask to apply local adjustments only and the best part after I save an image I can always change my mind and delete or add layers without having to reprocess the whole image. Using adjustment layers and mask gives you complete control over your image and are non destructive.
    Don Lacy
    You don't take a photograph, you make it - Ansel Adams
    There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs - Ansel Adams
    http://www.witnessnature.net/
    https://500px.com/lacy

  20. Thanks shane shacaluga thanked for this post
  21. #18
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Gibraltar
    Posts
    1,521
    Threads
    161
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    A final question, is it possible to do the same for noise reduction and/or sharpening?

    would be great to paint in the NR on background areas etc

    thanks

  22. #19
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Posts
    9,587
    Threads
    401
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Definitely, but there you will have a duplicate pixel layer on which you did the NR or sharpening, and then you add a mask (icon third from left at bottom left of Layers panel) and brush appropriately.

  23. #20
    BPN Member Don Lacy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    SE Florida
    Posts
    3,566
    Threads
    348
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Diane is right I never apply NR or sharpening globally at any stage of my work flow always use layers and mask this also goes for all my Nik filters and Photo kit filters .
    Don Lacy
    You don't take a photograph, you make it - Ansel Adams
    There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs - Ansel Adams
    http://www.witnessnature.net/
    https://500px.com/lacy

  24. #21
    Forum Participant
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Posts
    9,587
    Threads
    401
    Thank You Posts

    Default

    Another answer for the original question -- Topaz ReMask can do an amazing job of making a feathered cutout / mask for translucent areas. Using it isn't exactly intuitive from the interface but it's quite easy and simple once you know how, and they have a good tutorial online. But as pointed out above, you can only go so far in changing a BG without it looking strange.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Web Analytics