View Poll Results: Keep the Rock or Lose it

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Thread: Stone or no Stone ?

  1. #1
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    Default Stone or no Stone ?

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    Red-capped Plover from Monday on the mud flats.

    Here's a question .......do you prefer the image with stone on the right or without......I like having it in as I think it adds more interest without to much distraction and helps to balance the image imo...what say you

    Canon 7D + 500 f4 + 1.4 x TC....700mm, f6.3, 1/4000, ISO400, ...hand held in bright skies and hot ambient temps....no crop, small selective sharpen, noise reduction to backdrop


    Last edited by Peter Kes; 12-21-2012 at 09:03 AM.

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    Phil:
    Magnificent image of plover.Nice lights,colors and details.Nice backdrop too.
    I think bird will take bit more of sharpening.
    BTW I will keep the stone.

    Regards,
    Satish.

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    Forum Participant John Cooper's Avatar
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    Another very nice image of the Red-capped plover Phil - the wonderful low perspective ensures that nice soft BG, and another vote for retaining the stone.
    I know we spoke recently about sharpening but I think this one would benefit from another pass of USM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Cooper View Post
    Another very nice image of the Red-capped plover Phil - the wonderful low perspective ensures that nice soft BG, and another vote for retaining the stone.
    I know we spoke recently about sharpening but I think this one would benefit from another pass of USM.

    My problem with more sharpening is when I edit I view at a much bigger size than posted it looks more grainy/pixelated.....naturally enough and more sharpening makes it worse so I tend to leave as is simply because it's already too grainy on a larger size { lol....I really have this thing about noise/grain, I would rather a slight softening that any form of noise....that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it lol }

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    Hi Phil,

    Yes, I would also keep the stone - gives some balance. Also agree that the eye and the bill of the plover look un-sharp. So, interested in your comments about noise vs. sharpness - and your minimal post processing workflow. What software are you using to mitigate the noise? Have you tried Arash's DPP workflow? Might be worth taking a look at it...

    Gerald

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    Lifetime Member David Salem's Avatar
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    Yes to the stone. Yes to some more sharpening. Yes it's a beautiful shot. Well done

  7. #7
    Macro and Flora Moderator Jonathan Ashton's Avatar
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    Lovely shot I would retain the stone. Regards sharpening, suggest you try Quick select Tool to select the bird, then apply the sharpening to the bird selectively, I suspect this will work if you go back from scratch,(I tried it on your jpeg but was not impressed.)
    I am surprised you needed NR in such bright light, was the image slightly underexposed? If it was then the noise would become more apparent -sorry if you know this I don't intend to teach you to suck eggs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Ashton View Post
    Lovely shot I would retain the stone. Regards sharpening, suggest you try Quick select Tool to select the bird, then apply the sharpening to the bird selectively, I suspect this will work if you go back from scratch,(I tried it on your jpeg but was not impressed.)
    I am surprised you needed NR in such bright light, was the image slightly underexposed? If it was then the noise would become more apparent -sorry if you know this I don't intend to teach you to suck eggs


    I do selective sharpen as you suggest, most often use " smart sharpen " and generally apply it in two or three small increments at a time. This image on full screen looks sharper and verges on being grainy, I'm not game to apply any more sharpening or run risk of introducing even more graininess. The image was not underexposed at all, slightly bright if anything which had a slight tweak in highlight adjustment....I expose to the right of the histogram out of camera. I selectively apply noise reduction to just backdrop on almost every image from my 7D produces at or over ISO 400, some it may not be entirely necessary, but it always helps smooth the backdrop a bit more.

    Bassically I sharpen to view full screen on my monitor and not just for web uploading.


    Here's repost with a bit more selective smart sharpen.......amount 40% and radius of 1.0....but to me it looks oversharpened on full screen view now

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    This is the beauty bird you posted earlier, Phil. I checked it again and decided that I like this version better. The inclusion of the stone gives it an extra flavor and the lighting and crop seems to be better as well.
    Great low shooting angle, beutiful work.

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    Macro and Flora Moderator Jonathan Ashton's Avatar
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    Phil, I would suggest you reduce the radius size, 1.0 sounds large to me, a good pal of mine told me a neat trick. Once you have optimised your image (you may then or may not save as a TIFF). Next resize for web dimensions. Using quick select tool select the areas requiring sharpening (NB bear in mind DOF, i.e. not always a good idea to sharpen say a bird without considering the neighbouring areas). Having done that if necessary invert the selections and apply NR. Then invert again and Smart Sharpen the subject area say 60% 0.3, if still not enough try again at say 40-60% 0.2. There is of course flexibility in the figures I offer, it all depends upon the subject and light angle. Hope this helps a little.

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    Another very nice low angle image of this beautiful shorebird. Yes to the stone!
    At the time of capture suggestions would be to elevate your shooting angle an inch or two to try and get those
    feet in the frame better. Looks like just a slight elevation would have done the trick. Also, stopping down to f8
    at this distance to subject would have been reasonable. It looks like critical focus is just falling off a bit at the tail
    end and bill tip of the bird. A slightly better head angle would have been nice...a slight turn of the head to the bird's right.
    I find that when I'm laying flat shooting shorebirds, slightly raising my leg when I want a head turn, will often get me what I'm
    looking for. I suppose it's making my profile look bigger which draws their attention.

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    Thanks for the tips and kind comments, all good advice

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    Super Moderator Daniel Cadieux's Avatar
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    I'm on the fence about the stone, but if pressed to choose I would say without. If it were smaller and not as dark then yes I would keep it. I agree with Shawn about head angle too and his tip works, I've done it before...that or rubbing your shoe on the ground or doing a pishing noise with your mouth...anything to get it's attention but not so brash as to spook it. All else looks good to me, love the colours, BG, ground, details.

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    Very nicely done with the repost. I like the size of the stone, but I would only want it there if it were a bit more in the focus plane.

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