Commenting on photo's

[dankearl]

This probably won't make me the most popular person here, and maybe this is not the right forum (I don't know what is?).
I started posting here to get feedback and the forum seemed to be set up to get feedback.
I try to make it a point to comment and give feedback on other's photo's.
It does take a bit of time but that was what made this forum unique.
More and more, it seems like people are posting and never bothering to comment on anyone else's photo's.
There are people who post on a regular basis and never comment on other's photo's.
It seems more and more the norm and it is not what makes this forum unique or interesting for
me.
Just my forum critique, whether it matters or not is up to the owners and moderators.

[gail bisson]

Hi Dan,
I am generally very happy with this forum and most members are very good stewards and critics.There are a few who never comment. I will usually comment on their pics a few times but if I see they never comment on other members images (and I am not saying my shots, I mean any shot ) then I simply stop critiquing their images.
The "upload and run" behavior would stop very quickly if we all stopped commenting on their images completely.
Gail

[PhilCook]

Fair enough comments from you Dan, agree completely, and I to will often take a similar stance as Gail suggests as in if you cant be bothered...nor will I. I tend to try and comment on at least five other posts every time I log on., and I feel guilty not commenting on them all, but you can only do so much and live a life outside the internet.....it's not too difficult to comment on 5 as requested by the pop up banner that displays upon logging on. Sadly this topic comes up regularly in all forums, and there is always two sides to the saga, some folks just don't know how to comment or leave C&C, I can understand that, but at least making an effort goes a long way for forum vibes.

You can only get out of a forum what you put back in to it I always think.

[arash_hazeghi]

Hey Dan,
It's their own loss, if they don't provide critique they won't receive any and their work will not improve

[Don Nelson]

I agree with you Dan.

There is a flip side to this as well - those that make shallow comments like "I like it" or something like that, but without saying what they like. Just wastes everyone's time; not only the OP but those that have to read through all such posts to find comments where someone has put a little time into thinking about the image and what they might do differently if the image were theirs.

[Rachel Hollander]

Hi Dan - I agree with your observations and it does seem that this has become more of a problem lately. I follow the same strategy as Gail in dealing with these posters.

[Steve Kaluski]

Hi Dan, it can be very frustrating at times.

I full appreciate people have limited time and quite often it's 'snatched' time, meaning early morning, late night or at lunchtimes, but if we can afford the time to post, we can afford the time to comment. Even if it's spread over a few days.

but at least making an effort goes a long way for forum vibes.

Phil I agree, we all have had to start at the sharp end, but the more you do, the easier it becomes and it could be just that one 'jewel' of a comment (does not have to be anything profound) that makes the difference to a thread. How gratifying is that to both the OP and to the person who has made the comment and it also strengthens the BPN Community.

[Marina Scarr]

Glad to see you sharing your thoughts on this subject, Dan. I am with Gail and Arash. I very rarely critique now on photos by those who are only here to post their work and not comment/critique. I rarely even click on their pictures any more. Those that only post are obviously not interested in making the most out of BPN since critiquing is a big part of the learning process. There are also a # of photogs who are only interested in posting to promote their workshops. By not taking the time to comment, they are simply losing rather than gaining business. Ultimately, it's their loss, but it's too bad b/c everyone would gain by their participation. I simply ignore their threads now even if I think their capture is probably outstanding, and I would suggest that others do the same. Slowly but surely the views and comments on their photos will diminish and maybe they'll see the light.

That said, BPN pretty much rocks!!!

[Roger Clark]

Perhaps instead of ignoring such posts, post a comment asking the poster to critique other images before people comment on the posted image.

I do agree that critiquing on other's images teaches as much, and probably more than receiving a critique.

Roger

[Jim Michael]

Yes, and there are different aspects that may be helpful. For instance there are critiques of a technical nature having to do with color balance, sharpening, etc. as well as elements of technique pertaining to how a particular subject is portrayed. Then there are artistic interpretive critiques which you rarely encounter, much like a snow leopard. I find the explanation of the finer points of bird photography very interesting.

[Steve Kaluski]

For instance there are critiques of a technical nature having to do with color balance, sharpening, etc. as well as elements of technique pertaining to how a particular subject is portrayed. Then there are artistic interpretive critiques which you rarely encounter, much like a snow leopard. I find the explanation of the finer points of bird photography very interesting.

Very true Jim, this to me is what makes a Forum strong. The diversity and knowledge in the replies posted, hopefully giving a equal balance and allowing the 'poster' to distill from the comments and progress and why it is so important to try and comment.

[Jim Neiger]

My two cents:

I think participating on this site in any non negative way or amount is a good thing and should be encouraged. There are many ways to contribute besides just critiquing images. Encouraging people in a positive way will work a lot better than trying to coerce them or guilt them into participating more. That is just as likley to have the opposite effect. Just my two cents.

[Grady Weed]

I'll offer a different view folks. At 52, owning 2 business's, volunteering 20-40 hours per month, living in snow country, just plain tired and so on and so forth, we all have a limited time to give to this site. The owners spend more time doing so...well, because they own it and it is their best interests to spend as much time as possible to do so. Some posters are retired, some really like to spend time up on the web as their hobby. Me, I try to post and critique 5-10 images when I can. Like now, I am just looking and reading. I also look here on this particular forum, just to see what others are doing. I post mainly in the Landscapes and Wildlife forums. So that is mainly where I also critique.

I have to agree with Marina some. A few post and then fly away and hardly ever comment on others images. I usually do comment on their images because do not take the time to help others out. However as Jim Nieger points out, "Encouraging people in a positive way will work a lot better than trying to coerce them or guilt them into participating more. That is just as likley to have the opposite effect."

I am not knocking Dan here for bringing this up once again. EVERY web hosting or birding site goes through this issue, ALL OF THEM. It is human nature. I come here for those who are thoughtfull enough to help me and comment on my images. I also like to help others as much as I can. My advice is; try not to let it bother you and grab what help you can get. Life is too precious to squabble about those issues. Please do not take that comment in an adverse way. I think most here are doing their best.

My personal thanks to Dan, Marina, Jimmy, my buddy James Shadle, Artie, Roger Clark AKA Mr. Brainiac, Steve Mr. Africa Kaluski, Peter Delaney AKA Lion man and all of the others who put forth great efort to make BPN rock! See you all.

[Don Lacy]

I know for me that I would not have grown as a photographer with out the insight and knowledge I gained from others who took the time to critique and comment on my images, and while i do not have enough time to photograph let alone participate on BPN as much as i would like right now when i do post an image I always try to honor the etiquette of commenting on five other images. As for the photographers who are promoting their work in order to get workshop clients I know they would be better served developing friendships and relationships with the other members by commenting and helping them improve here first.

[dankearl]

I am sorry if my post came across as trying to coerce people into commenting.
I don't have any reason to do that and I don't care if people comment on my photos.
I learn more by reading the critiques of other photos than I do the comments on my own.
I just think that there are a lot of forums where you just post and commenting is not encouraged or discouraged,
It is just not the policy of the site to critique or not.
I joined this forum because that is the intent, it is basically the reason to post here and if the members are not commenting
for whatever reason, it is much less interesting and informative.
Sorry if I came across as complaining about the site or about people who post here, that was not my intent.
I just want all the information and expertise I can get from this place, that is the reason I get on this forum.

[Gary Lien]

This is a good thread for me. As a relatively new reader here, I know posting is important. On the other hand, I do hold back a bit to sort of get the feel of the forum I have not posted any photos yet [probably because they don't hold up well to those of you others] but when I do, I would love all the thought sharing I can get.
Sometimes all I can say is "good shot" as that appears to me to be what it is, so, being critical of that may not be the right direction. Surely there are others such as me that are looking here, but do not yet have those great shots or know how to make them look great with Photo shop,.
It feels more than fair to Dan and others to ask for something when we are looking. I have made a few nice shot statements and will continue to. Just keep in mind, that " good shot" may be all I have the ability to critique with at that time.
Many of you photographers here blow me away with your ability and I am so apprecitive of the time you spend helping us. Keep encouraging us and we will keep shooting and sharing.
God's blessings this Christmas season.

[Randy Stout]

This particular theme has come up a number of times, both on the site in general and on the moderator forum. It is still very good to revisit it periodically, so my hats off to Dan for getting this thread started.
We try really hard to build a sense of community, and commenting and interacting with other members is essential. Yes, there are folks who just don't feel qualified to give detailed critiques, but as has been mentioned, you learn a lot by trying to do just that, because it really makes you think about the photo, what makes it work, or not.

I do often encourage people to comment, both publicly and with a private message. And yes, if there is a person who just doesn't bother to comment on others posts, eventually I stop commenting on their images (usually after personally encouraging them to please comment on others.}

I do think it is fine not to repeat everything that previous posters have covered, but if there is an outstanding characteristic, I will second someone else's praise.

Comments on composition and the artistic side are always appreciated by all I think.

Cheers

Randy

[Don Thompson]

I have been a participant at BPN for about 4 years. As best I can tell, during that time, I have had approx. 260 post/comments. What has kept me from being more active is in part what I am reading here. When BPN has moderators with their abilities commenting on photos, regardless of how much I am encouraged to comment, I feel my comments would add nothing to the discussion. I would end up saying “ditto”.


Therefore, without really being able to add anything to the discussion and the reaction here seeming to be if you don’t comment, then you shouldn’t post, I don’t post. I visit, I read the comments of other more highly skilled photographers, I learn, but I rarely post.


I am not complaining, I am just trying to present another perspective. For avian photography, BPN is still my first stop. As far as I am concerned, there is no better site on the web.

[Jim Neiger]

I have been a participant at BPN for about 4 years. As best I can tell, during that time, I have had approx. 260 post/comments. What has kept me from being more active is in part what I am reading here. When BPN has moderators with their abilities commenting on photos, regardless of how much I am encouraged to comment, I feel my comments would add nothing to the discussion. I would end up saying “ditto”.


Therefore, without really being able to add anything to the discussion and the reaction here seeming to be if you don’t comment, then you shouldn’t post, I don’t post. I visit, I read the comments of other more highly skilled photographers, I learn, but I rarely post.


I am not complaining, I am just trying to present another perspective. For avian photography, BPN is still my first stop. As far as I am concerned, there is no better site on the web.

This is the kind of thing I was talking about. I think we should encourage any and all non negative participation. Trying to manipulate the way other people participate via rules, negative comments, or other methods will tend to have the opposite effect, IMO.

[Clyde Hopper]

Jim ,I agree . All positive comments/ participations are a good thing . BUT, I also can see the frustrations of the folks who take the time to study a photo ,give detailed cc , and receive an attaboy ,nice shot or even no comment at all . Thus ,I feel venting ,(Like this thread ) helps to remind people ,this place IS deferent from the rest and that there are benefits from being an active member . also ,as already stated, I have learned more from giving ,than receiving critique . As the Christmas Portrait Photography season now slows..............
I for one will be more active ,and I hope more will follow suite

[Bill Jobes]

This thread seems to have evolved from that of a lament that some posters don't comment -- to the perceived quality of the critiques ... or, 'comments.'

Everyone should take note that the message at the top of the Forum asks for five 'comments' per post, not five 'critiques.'

There's nothing wrong with a compliment in response to a posting. Some images are of such high quality, that that's all that needs saying. We can all offer our personal artistic or technical takes on the image offered, but is that always necessary ?

Even the most experienced participants seem to post their best work. We may feign disinterest in collecting praise for our photos, but that seems to be what motivates a majority of the posters. I haven't seen much junk offered lately !

In my opinion, we shouldn't disparage and belittle those who make the 'great job' comments. Often, that's all the person who's relatively new to the pursuit, feels qualified to state. Let her state it. She will eventually grow into offering more tangible advice.

It would also be useful, if we all, when posting an image, would say up front if we're looking for community evaluation on a particular aspect of it. Or are we just displaying something we're proud of.

The encouragement of dialogue of a worthy endeavor, and will only serve to elevate the standing of BPN and all its participants.

[Arthur Morris]

This probably won't make me the most popular person here, and maybe this is not the right forum (I don't know what is?). I started posting here to get feedback and the forum seemed to be set up to get feedback. I try to make it a point to comment and give feedback on other's photo's. It does take a bit of time but that was what made this forum unique. More and more, it seems like people are posting and never bothering to comment on anyone else's photo's. There are people who post on a regular basis and never comment on other's photo's. It seems more and more the norm and it is not what makes this forum unique or interesting for me. Just my forum critique, whether it matters or not is up to the owners and moderators.

I couldn't agree with you more. This is a topic that has been discussed at length among the mods at least in the Avian Forum. Once it becomes obvious that someone is just participating to drop off images I write the person suggesting that they be nice and comment substantively on the images of others. If that fails I simply quit posting to their images. I have suggested that the other mods do the same. In egregious cases, most do.

[Arthur Morris]

Perhaps instead of ignoring such posts, post a comment asking the poster to critique other images before people comment on the posted image.

I do agree that critiquing on other's images teaches as much, and probably more than receiving a critique.

Roger

Good point. I have tried that approach also at times. The funny thing is that with most folks who simply drop off images no approach gets results. And often they are skilled photographers whose images continue to garner lots of comments.....

[Arthur Morris]

I know for me that I would not have grown as a photographer with out the insight and knowledge I gained from others who took the time to critique and comment on my images, and while i do not have enough time to photograph let alone participate on BPN as much as i would like right now when i do post an image I always try to honor the etiquette of commenting on five other images. As for the photographers who are promoting their work in order to get workshop clients I know they would be better served developing friendships and relationships with the other members by commenting and helping them improve here first.

Thanks for your kind words. That is all that we are asking, post an image and comment on the images of five others.

[Arthur Morris]

I am sorry if my post came across as trying to coerce people into commenting. I don't have any reason to do that and I don't care if people comment on my photos. I learn more by reading the critiques of other photos than I do the comments on my own. I just think that there are a lot of forums where you just post and commenting is not encouraged or discouraged,
It is just not the policy of the site to critique or not. I joined this forum because that is the intent, it is basically the reason to post here and if the members are not commenting for whatever reason, it is much less interesting and informative. Sorry if I came across as complaining about the site or about people who post here, that was not my intent. I just want all the information and expertise I can get from this place, that is the reason I get on this forum.

Dank, In no way did I see your post as trying to coerce anyone to do anything and in no way did I see it as negative.

[Arthur Morris]

This is the kind of thing I was talking about. I think we should encourage any and all non negative participation. Trying to manipulate the way other people participate via rules, negative comments, or other methods will tend to have the opposite effect, IMO.

Disagree in part. If some posts 500 great images while having commented on five other images over the years they are attempting to use BPN. As initially stated, if folks quit commenting on their (and even viewing) images they would get the point fairly soon.

[Arthur Morris]

This thread seems to have evolved from that of a lament that some posters don't comment -- to the perceived quality of the critiques ... or, 'comments.'

Bill, Above, you are quite correct. I just finished deleting most of the off-topic comments and those that were the "fruits of the poisoned tree." I did invite those who began the diversion to start a new thread dealing with the quality of the critiques lest they scream "censorship."

[Arthur Morris]

Though such comments are slightly off topic, I could find no way to excise them and will comment as follows:

Folks who state that they "have nothing to add" or are "not skilled enough to offer a critique" are invited to try this:

1-Look at the posted image.
2-Do not read any of the comments.
3-Let us know what you like about the image. And why you like it.
4-Let us know what you do not like about the image. And why.

Anyone is capable of doing so. Respectfully.

[Richard Mc Donald]

I'm very guilty of the hit and run mentality but, after reading this thread, I will do my utmost to change that.

Richard

[Arthur Morris]

Hey Richard, Thanks for having an open mind!

[Grady Weed]

Though such comments are slightly off topic, I could find no way to excise them and will comment as follows:

Folks who state that they "have nothing to add" or are "not skilled enough to offer a critique" are invited to try this:

1-Look at the posted image.
2-Do not read any of the comments.
3-Let us know what you like about the image. And why you like it.
4-Let us know what you do not like about the image. And why.

Anyone is capable of doing so. Respectfully.

Finally, some common sense! I personally do not read most of the comments until after I have thought how I like the image, or what I do not like about it. This helps me to see it as I really do, not through a tainted set of glasses. If you read everybodys comments first, you run the risk of falling in line with the prevailing view instead of a fresh look. After you have made up your mind and perhaps write your review, then before posting, read a few comments, then hit the post button.

Then if you have time go re-read all of the comments, perhaps then post a second one. After you have done this for a few hundred posts, then you will be on your way to seeing how to make better and better comments. It is a slow time consuming process to learn. But well worth the wait. Just my 2 cents.

[Marina Scarr]

Though such comments are slightly off topic, I could find no way to excise them and will comment as follows:

Folks who state that they "have nothing to add" or are "not skilled enough to offer a critique" are invited to try this:

1-Look at the posted image.
2-Do not read any of the comments.
3-Let us know what you like about the image. And why you like it.
4-Let us know what you do not like about the image. And why.

Anyone is capable of doing so. Respectfully.

A very logical way of handling the critiques!

[Steve Kaluski]

Then if you have time go re-read all of the comments, perhaps then post a second one. After you have done this for a few hundred posts, then you will be on your way to seeing how to make better and better comments.

In addition, it may also help you in your own photographic journey and even help your own photography, as you will have a better idea/understanding in what to look for behind the camera, including avoiding distracting objects, POV, composition to name a few.

As we are ending one year and entering another, what better opportunity to give things a whirl? Hey, you have nothing to lose and so much to gain.

[Arthur Morris]

Finally, some common sense! I personally do not read most of the comments until after I have thought how I like the image, or what I do not like about it. This helps me to see it as I really do, not through a tainted set of glasses. If you read everybodys comments first, you run the risk of falling in line with the prevailing view instead of a fresh look. After you have made up your mind and perhaps write your review, then before posting, read a few comments, then hit the post button.

Then if you have time go re-read all of the comments, perhaps then post a second one. After you have done this for a few hundred posts, then you will be on your way to seeing how to make better and better comments. It is a slow time consuming process to learn. But well worth the wait. Just my 2 cents.

Two cents or maybe a million bucks .

ps: thanks Grady and Marina