Glossy Ibis

[Richard Mc Donald]

As we head into the worst part of our dry season (very humid) the lagoons and billabongs further out into Arnhem Land start to dry up and bring the bird life closer to the permanent water holes near home which in turn means half day trips are the order instead on an overnight camp.

1Dx - 800L @ f/5.6 - ISO 800 - -1/3EV - 1/2000 - 50% crop

Richard

[Gerald Kelberg]

Hi Richard,

The colours and iridescence on the feathers look amazing in the soft light against that background and the exposure looks spot on to me. Too bad he turned away at the crucial moment! Do you have any images with a better head angle? I hope so! And this one needs a touch of CW rotation.

Hope there are more where this came from!

Gerald

[Kerry Perkins]

Richard, this is a wonderful image showing off the amazing metallic look of this bird. The only two issues for me are the same as mentioned by Gerald - rotation and the bird looking away. Actually, I would also clean up the bright spots in the water here and there...

[Richard Mc Donald]

Just a comment Kerry if I may and comment only it is, are we so conditioned by those better than us that when we present a photo of an animal in its natural state and that animal isn't looking at the camera the shot is deemed to be unsuitable?

Same goes with the cartoon like oversaturation I see here quite a lot.

It's taken me quite a while to come to the conclusion that this whole site isn't about the bird and nature but about the photo of the bird.

Richard

[Ian Cassell]

Richard,

If I may attempt an answer ... (and others feel free to chime in, disagree, and/or move the discussion) ...

I have always felt that this 'eager to learn' forum was specifically geared towards improving the quality of the participant's bird photography skills. I, for one, post here to learn how my images can improve their impact. There are enough forums out there on the web where the only comments you ever get are 'nice photo' or 'good job', no matter what the quality of the image. This is not one of that type. I don't think the goal of this particular forum was intended to be specifically about the bird and nature (although lack of an interesting subject, of course, reduces the quality of the photograph). I don't think people here often say that a photograph is unsuitable, rather they try and give constructive criticism.

I certainly don't feel this photograph is unsuitable. I think the techs are good and I love the position of the bird and the BG. The blades of grass add interest. I do agree with those above that the impact would be improved by a bit of rotation and a turn of the head (and possibly eviction of the white spot under the beak).

[Richard Mc Donald]

Thanks Ian, there was no malice, for want of a better word, in my comment as stated.

To be honest, I took close to fifty shots of the Ibis on the day and not one of them shows the bird looking at me, there are a few that come close but because the bill is such a large physical attraction to the photographer that attraction goes right out the window oweing of the angle.

The shot below is an example and probaly the closest I captured on the day to actually be looking at the camera, a straight on shot of any bird with such a large beak is going to look goofy in my opinion.

So, what to do, you have a set of shots you'd like to share but because they don't meet the expectations of others they sit on your hard drive unused.

Maybe we should have a forum here where photo's can be shown as is, where is and as you like.

Richard

[Ian Cassell]

IMHO, that's a good suggestion. There is such a forum for moderators, but none for the rest of us. I believe one can have a gallery of one's own here, but people don't tend to go looking. Perhaps we could just have a forum titled "Gallery" for exhibition but not critique. I tend to post those images (and I have many of them) on other forums (e.g. my link to my smugmug with my signature), but others might like to consolidate that here.

EDIT: I am mistaken. There is a forum entitled "Staff and Member Showcase" in the "BPN Community" section that appears to be for that purpose. I think I assumed previously that it was just for moderators, but it is not.

[Katharina Reddig]

I have read posts on this forum for the past few months and have learned a lot from the honest and constructive critique of participants. I had been a member on another forum, but stopped to participate because of unhelpful comments. I only started posting here yesterday and must say I would be very disappointed if I only get comments like "amazing picture","Good Work" and "Well done". I would like to learn where I can improve my skills. Would you be happy to see that hundreds have viewed your images, but nobody commented?
To give a comment on your posts, I prefer the first image because it suits the bird with large beak better, but I have to agree with the others that a head angle just a few degrees towards you would be nice. I also agree on slight CW rotation because water should be dripping in straight line.

[Richard Mc Donald]

For the record, yes I do know about having the subject looking at or near enough to the camera, I chose not to present such an image for two reasons and those being 1) I don't have such an image and 2) even if I did there's a good chance I wouldn't have shown it becasue of the reasons stated above in my previous post.

Out of the two exposures, which would you prefer?

In my eyes obviously the first.

And yes, I now realise the image needs to be straightened a tad and if this site allowed me to post more than one image a day I would repost it corrected.

Richard

[Cheryl Slechta]

Hi, Richard, you can repost an image that you have reworked and it is not counted as more than one image per day. When you post a Reply there is a button on the bottom "Go Advanced". Click on that and you will see "Manage Attachments". You can then upload your image and it will be contained in your response thread. Hope that helps

[Gerald Kelberg]

Hi Richard,

You introduced the idea of "... the animal isn't looking at the camera the shot is deemed to be unsuitable" and it seems to be based on a fundamental mis-understanding of my comment about the head angle. Artie Morris places a great deal of emphasis on head angle (and for good reason), so I think if you take a trawl though the "Head Angle Fine Points" discussion that is to be found in the Educational Resources board you will find it very helpful.

Best wishes,

Gerald

[Kerry Perkins]

Richard, the point of a critique forum is to solicit the comments of other photographers with the intent of improving our skills. I find your over-reaction to my comments to be completely out of line with the spirit in which they were given. My first comment was "this is a wonderful image". Does that sound demeaning or condescending? Do you disagree that the image would be better if it were level and the bird were looking in your direction? What part of my post prompted your response?

You also took some pot-shots at the site and other photographers with no supporting evidence. I don't find this to be either fair or accurate on your part. Of course our critiques are about the image, but we hold nature in high regard and believe that the purpose of nature photography is to show the subjects in the best possible way in their natural surroundings. You have been a member for four years, I'm really surprised that you have the views that you have expressed about the site.

[Steve Kaluski]

Hi Richard, just an observation, but with regard to the 'saturation' of the image that might be due to the image not having an sRGB profile embedded, something that is required for any web presentation to avoid any possible colour shift. Having downloaded the image it appears to have an untagged profile, therefore if you correctly save the file with the Assigned sRGB profile, then that will portray the image correctly.

There is a lot we can learn from each other in all walks of Photography, and we are ALL constantly building on the advice given, as it is very supportive and constructive.

[Arthur Morris]

Just a comment Kerry if I may and comment only it is, are we so conditioned by those better than us that when we present a photo of an animal in its natural state and that animal isn't looking at the camera the shot is deemed to be unsuitable? It's taken me quite a while to come to the conclusion that this whole site isn't about the bird and nature but about the photo of the bird. Richard

Richard. Unsuitable is your choice of a word.... Our goal here it to help you make better images. You have great gear. Do you not wish to learn to make better images? Yes, you can go out and photograph what is all day, and yes, those images represent nature and represent exactly what you saw. But in most cases random creations are poor photographs. But most folks wish to create pleasing images. This image would be far more pleasing if the bird's head were square to the imaging sensor. Many folks are simply unaware that they can press the shutter button at the opportune time; simply pointing out a poor head angle can help them improve by leaps and bounds. If they have an open mind.

So yes, this site is very much about the photo, that's why we named it BirdPhotographers.Net not Birds.Net.

[Dan Brown]

Hi Richard,

The colours and iridescence on the feathers look amazing in the soft light against that background and the exposure looks spot on to me. Too bad he turned away at the crucial moment! Do you have any images with a better head angle? I hope so! And this one needs a touch of CW rotation.

Hope there are more where this came from!

Gerald

Hi Richard. I agree with the above critique. After reading through this thread, I feel that you may have misinterpreted the "better head angle" and "looking at the camera" comments? As Artie states "This image would be far more pleasing if the bird's head were square to the imaging sensor" is referring to your original post having the birds head turned slightly to the birds left side and not looking straight on as in your second post. So, IMHO, the original post would be much better (and it is good!) if the birds bill and head were angled slightly to the birds left side. And, if you are already aware of this, I apologize for assuming that you didn't.

[John Chardine]

People often get irritated about head angles. A common response is "well how I am supposed to control the bird to give me a good head angle"? Of course the obvious answer is you can't. What you can do, as mentioned above, is wait for the opportune moment. When I am teaching, I make the analogy of a press conference with say a famous president or prime minister up front. You will hear the shutters clicking in bursts usually associated with some gesture or head angle (!) the famous person is making. All goes quiet when the hands are not animated and the person is looking down reading. I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I have had a great opportunity with a bird which failed to provide a good head angle. The bottom line is wait, be patient, hold off the shutter and click at the right time.

[James Shadle]

"It's taken me quite a while to come to the conclusion that this whole site isn't about the bird and nature but about the photo of the bird."

BirdPhotographers.Net - we are a bird and nature photography educational site.
Don't forget we have Avian: About Birds forum. It is a forum about birds - not bird photography.

To stay on topic, I'll offer this critique -
I find the image to be very sharp and well exposed. The background is pleasing and I'm not bothered at all by the tall grass behind the Ibis.
IMO the image would be stronger if the subject was at least parallel to the image plane.
In addition to straightening the horizontal line, less room above and more room below the subject would be beneficial.

[Richard Mc Donald]

Kerry, over the years you've been a good sorce of showing me a better way to my photography so a sincere apology, my comments where not in anyway aimed to cause distress.

Richard

Richard, the point of a critique forum is to solicit the comments of other photographers with the intent of improving our skills. I find your over-reaction to my comments to be completely out of line with the spirit in which they were given. My first comment was "this is a wonderful image". Does that sound demeaning or condescending? Do you disagree that the image would be better if it were level and the bird were looking in your direction? What part of my post prompted your response?

You also took some pot-shots at the site and other photographers with no supporting evidence. I don't find this to be either fair or accurate on your part. Of course our critiques are about the image, but we hold nature in high regard and believe that the purpose of nature photography is to show the subjects in the best possible way in their natural surroundings. You have been a member for four years, I'm really surprised that you have the views that you have expressed about the site.

[Kerry Perkins]

Richard, we have chosen to pursue a very difficult path in photography and I understand the frustrations. I'm sure that your comments were made during one of those moments of frustration and I will not linger on them. I hope that you will continue to post on BPN and take advantage of all that it has to offer.