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Thread: 1DX/Canon 800mm f/5.6L IS/ Kenko Teleplus PRO 300 DGX 1.4x AF Teleconverter

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    Default 1DX/Canon 800mm f/5.6L IS/ Kenko Teleplus PRO 300 DGX 1.4x AF Teleconverter

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    As I readied my gear last week I was a bit concerned about trying to photograph small sandpipers on the East Pond at Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge in Queens, NY with only the 800 and a full frame body…. Man, I would miss having a 1.4X TC to use with my new camera and my favorite super-telephoto lens…. By design, the 1DX focuses only to f/5.6….


    I first purchased the Kenko Teleplus PRO 300 DGX 1.4x AF Teleconverter in hopes that it would autofocus with the 800mm f/5.6L IS and the EOS-5D Mark III. But that, as noted here, was a no-go. With the Kenko TC in place the aperture read 00.


    I finally got my 1DX from Canon through the Explorers of Light program on Tuesday and promptly headed out to the East Pond at Jamaica Bay Wildlife Refuge that afternoon. As I was gathering my gear I noticed the the Kenko Teleplus PRO 300 DGX 1.4x AF Teleconverter in my ThinkTank Airport SecurityTM V2.0 rolling bag. I grabbed it and mounted it between the 800 and my new camera body. Based on my experience with the 5D III I assumed that the 1DX would not focus with the TC in place. Again, the 1DX, by design, focuses only to f/5.6 with the Canon 1.4X II TCs. I raised the lens, pointed it at a sign in the parking lot, and pushed the star button that I use for rear focus. I was stunned. My new rig not only focused but it focused quickly. I was about half way to the turn onto Patterson Boulevard–there are few people in the world who know the name of that basalt-covered road–when I had another thought. I put my tripod down, raised the lens, pushed the grid button, pushed the M-Fn button and was again stunned; I was able to toggle through the various AF Area Selection Modes. Then I pressed the edge of the newly designed joystick; stunned times three. Not only did the 1DX focus with the the Kenko Teleplus PRO 300 DGX 1.4x AF Teleconverter, I was able to move the active AF sensor. I felt like the proverbial kid in the candy store.


    Once I got down in the mud I discovered that AF with the the Kenko Teleplus PRO 300 DGX 1.4x AF Teleconverter was fast and sure and accurate. I have been out every morning and afternoon since then and have totally fallen in love with the 1DX. That first afternoon I managed to get a huge gob of black, sticky, gooey much all over my brand new camera . It was a proper baptism.

    You can see more images here and here. You will also find my early take on the 1DX. Be sure also to check out the comments and questions.
    Last edited by Arthur Morris; 09-06-2012 at 05:39 PM.
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    Really good news Artie.

    The other side of the puzzle is the TC itself and although what I have seen on your blog and above are impressive, it is not possible to do critical evaluation of IQ based on a resampled, optimised images. So the question is- are you generally happy/ecstatic or otherwise with the results you are getting from the Kenco tc based on what you are seeing at 100%, unprocessed?

    The thing that the discovery makes clear is that Canon is purposely hobbling the 1Dx so that it will not AF with an f8 lens, and it suggests to me that it is fixable in firmware.
    Last edited by John Chardine; 09-05-2012 at 01:50 PM.

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    Hi John, As you likely know I never do tests. I look at the images in a BreezeBrowser slide show with the High Quality setting on. This adds a modicum of sharpening. I determine sharp or not, keep or delete by viewing the image full screen (with the verticals smaller than the horizontals of course). Did you see my mention of the "Pen Test for Sharpness" on the blog?

    That said, I did post a 100% unsharpened head portrait crop on the blog and will post it here as well at well fewer kb. Since I pretty much never look at my images at 100% I am not sure what I am seeing. I do know that I have been thrilled with my images with the Kenko 1.4X. Let me know what you think. I could not find that one so I went with a new one and converted in DPP. I actually think that this one looks pretty sharp, sharper than the one on the blog that was converted in ACR. Arash, are you there?
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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    ps: I agree on what is made clear.... Especially that I get all points and all AF Area Selection Modes...
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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    hey Artie, it's good but it can get better than that. use the DPP settings we discussed over the phone...or send me the RAW file and I'll post a 100% here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi View Post
    hey Artie, it's good but it can get better than that. use the DPP settings we discussed over the phone...or send me the RAW file and I'll post a 100% here.
    What are the DPP settings?
    Andrew

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    Just sent the RAW file via YouSendIt. Let me know if you get it. You need to write a short guide on doing conversions in DPP. Short and simple. We can sell that cheap and use it as a Portal to market the NR Guide. It would take you four hours at most. Every time I go to DPP I forget...
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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    Here is a 100% crop from the image Artie sent (it's a different frame). It's pretty sharp and clean all feather details are there...even though I had to compress this JPEG a bit for upload to BPN.

    Name:  _Q8R0853--East-Pond,-Jamaica-Bay-Wildlife-Refuge,-Queens,-NY.jpg
Views: 630
Size:  249.1 KB

    will write the guide as soon as I get a chance..I need to make time!
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    Can I send you the right frame?? Sorry about that.
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Can I send you the right frame?? Sorry about that.
    yes please
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Hi John, As you likely know I never do tests. I look at the images in a BreezeBrowser slide show with the High Quality setting on. This adds a modicum of sharpening. I determine sharp or not, keep or delete by viewing the image full screen (with the verticals smaller than the horizontals of course). Did you see my mention of the "Pen Test for Sharpness" on the blog?

    That said, I did post a 100% unsharpened head portrait crop on the blog and will post it here as well at well fewer kb. Since I pretty much never look at my images at 100% I am not sure what I am seeing. I do know that I have been thrilled with my images with the Kenko 1.4X. Let me know what you think. I could not find that one so I went with a new one and converted in DPP. I actually think that this one looks pretty sharp, sharper than the one on the blog that was converted in ACR. Arash, are you there?
    I'm not really talking about testing Artie, just looking at the images you make and deciding which are sharp and which are not. When you look at a lot of images as I am sure you do, you rapidly get a feel for what is sharp and what isn't. That's my experience anyway.

    When I view images in Photo Mechanic I'm looking at the full-res jpeg version with sharpening settings taken from the Canon Picture Style I have set. I customise my Picture Style so that I am not sharpening the jpeg too much in camera- just one notch of sharpening. That gives me a realistic idea of image sharpness before I process.

    I missed the "Pen Test for Sharpness". Could you provide the link.

    Reading down in the this thread, I see two 100% crops of the Semi Plover. Detail looks good in both (first one a little over-sharpened) so if this is what the Kenko tc is capable of then it's impressive.

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    here is a 100% crop of pane #3 w/o the sharpening halos and noise reduction (which is applied by default in DPP).

    Name:  _Q8R0853--East-Pond,-Jamaica-Bay-Wildlife-Refuge,-Queens,-NY.jpg
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    Pretty good if you ask me. Perhaps not exactly the same sharpness as the Canon 1.4 TC MKIII if you have pixel-peeping eyes but it's almost there plus you get AF at f/8 which is a deal breaker with 1DX/5D3 bodies.

    here is the tail area with lots of fine details, looking good.

    Name:  _Q8R0853--East-Pond,-Jamaica-Bay-Wildlife-Refuge,-Queens,-NY2.jpg
Views: 611
Size:  248.3 KB

    How good is it mechanically and in terms of durability and weather/dust sealing? I imagine you don't want a weak link between a $13K lens and a $7K body
    Last edited by arash_hazeghi; 09-05-2012 at 07:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Chardine View Post
    I'm not really talking about testing Artie, just looking at the images you make and deciding which are sharp and which are not. When you look at a lot of images as I am sure you do, you rapidly get a feel for what is sharp and what isn't. That's my experience anyway.

    When I view images in Photo Mechanic I'm looking at the full-res jpeg version with sharpening settings taken from the Canon Picture Style I have set. I customise my Picture Style so that I am not sharpening the jpeg too much in camera- just one notch of sharpening. That gives me a realistic idea of image sharpness before I process.

    I missed the "Pen Test for Sharpness". Could you provide the link.

    Reading down in the this thread, I see two 100% crops of the Semi Plover. Detail looks good in both (first one a little over-sharpened) so if this is what the Kenko tc is capable of then it's impressive.
    You can find the pen test info here in the first paragraph. Personally, I find the images very sharp and Arash's help here show that I am at least not totally blind :).
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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    Arash. Thanks on all counts. I did not realize that you posted the 2nd image as I did not see the cowlick :)
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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    Just wanted to post my accounts. I have a 1dx w/ original firmware and the kenko dgx 1.4 AF's w/ the 800 L, 70-300 L, 100-400 L. and yes as arthur morris reported it does not overexpose.

    and as an added bonus, it AF's w/the same lenses on the 5d iii (both firmware 1.1.2 and the updated 1.1.3)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Holzworth View Post
    Just wanted to post my accounts. I have a 1dx w/ original firmware and the kenko dgx 1.4 AF's w/ the 800 L, 70-300 L, 100-400 L. and yes as arthur morris reported it does not overexpose.

    and as an added bonus, it AF's w/the same lenses on the 5d iii (both firmware 1.1.2 and the updated 1.1.3)
    Jason, You have seriously mis-quoted me above. I commented only on the 1dX/ Kenko Teleplus PRO 300 DGX 1.4x AF Teleconverter/Canon 800mm f/5.6 combo which focuses fantastically well but does overexpose by one stop.
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    John, To clarify: I am generally between happy and ecstatic with the sharpness.
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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    you're right i did....i meant to say the 5d iii does not overexpose. the 1dx does. sorry about that.

    not sure how to edit the thread to change that.

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    Artie,

    Until I read about what you found with the Kenko 1.4 I did not even bother with the 1DX despite the raves because it cannot focus to f/8.0. As it happens I have a Kenko 1.4X Teleplus Pro 300 sitting in my dry box for years. Off I went to my Canon dealer and to have a loan 1DX unit to test.

    First off with the loan unit on the latest firmware 1.06 and on both my 800mm lenses they do not auto focus. Next up how would I know if the IS is working. With my other cameras the IS did make a sound whenever it kicked in also in LV the image "moved".

    Could it be the camera that is playing up instead. I must admit when it locks on focus it does really quickly and I was hoping for bird flight shots plus trackside MotoGP. There's lots to learn about this new camera. Also with the auto focussing I have found going from vast distances between subjects (front and rear) it does not move at all.

    Any ideas?

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    Hi Phil,

    re:


    Until I read about what you found with the Kenko 1.4 I did not even bother with the 1DX despite the raves because it cannot focus to f/8.0. As it happens I have a Kenko 1.4X Teleplus Pro 300 sitting in my dry box for years. Off I went to my Canon dealer and to have a loan 1DX unit to test.

    First off with the loan unit on the latest firmware 1.06

    The firmware on my 1DX is 1.02.

    and on both my 800mm lenses they do not auto focus.

    Bummer .

    Next up how would I know if the IS is working. With my other cameras the IS did make a sound whenever it kicked in also in LV the image "moved".

    My understanding is that things should be the same if a bit quieter.

    Could it be the camera that is playing up instead.

    I am not sure what you mean by that. Please explain.

    I must admit when it locks on focus it does really quickly and I was hoping for bird flight shots plus trackside MotoGP.

    I have done well with flight in limited opportunities. See below for one with 800/1DX combo.

    There's lots to learn about this new camera.

    Agree. It is in many ways a 5D III on steroids. It will probably take me at least two months to write the User's Guide for it. Many folks with the 1DX are buying the 5D III UG.

    Also with the auto focussing I have found going from vast distances between subjects (front and rear) it does not move at all.

    It sound as as if you might have inadvertently set Lens Drive when AF impossible to Stop focus search: OFF. Lens Drive when AF impossible can be found on AF4, the fourth purple menu.

    Any ideas?

    It is looking more and more as if the firmware updates beyond 1.02 quashed the abilty of the DX to AF with a the Kenko 1.4X Teleplus Pro 300 and an f/5.6 lens.... That was dirty bumper pool if you ask me.
    Last edited by Arthur Morris; 09-09-2012 at 04:53 AM.
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  21. Thanks Phil Liew thanked for this post
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    Hi Artie,

    Many thanks for your prompt response and reply.

    Indeed it may have been the firmware upgrade that the deed's been done to stop it working but I shall try a few more things tomorrow.

    The camera playing up as in a "lemon"! It may be but being a load unit from Canon they would want to ensure all's well with it.

    Yes, you were right that I have set the Focus Search to OFF position.

    I have to find a way to test the IS as this is really silent and I do not see the "movement" in LV mode. Again both lenses work good with both 1D4s. Perhaps hand holding and taking a few shots and comparing same with a tripod mounted one.

    Thanks again for coming back promptly.

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    YAW Phil. The camera is super-fast with focus acquisition so Focus Search OFF was the only thing that made sense. The default is Continue focus search ON. And I forgot to mention that in most situations it should be ON. The strange thing is that someone on the last IPT had it OFF also. Don't ask me what I think of the very confusing name there: Lens Drive when AF impossible....
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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    I just received my Kenko 1.4 Pro yesterday and it focuses fine with my 1DX/800 with 1.0.2 firmware in the 1DX. The one thing to confirm is the firmware in the 800 before we can point the finger at the 1DX firmware upgrade. Both Artie and I have not had the firmware upgraded in our 800's. So, have the folks with the error on the 1DX Kenko converter/800 had the firmware on their lens upgraded?
    Best

    Patrick Sparkman

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    Have any of you guys done and Micro adjusting? A friend has a new 1DX and Kenko converter as well as an 800 which he has had for a long time. Autofocus works well but as soon as he puts any micro adjusting in for ANY lens the camera now locks up until he takes the battery out and reinserts and then deletes all micro adjusting. To be clear, he cannot use MA on even his 300 or 500 if he wants to use the Kenko/800 combo. Anyone else had this or know a work around?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Zipp View Post
    Have any of you guys done and Micro adjusting? A friend has a new 1DX and Kenko converter as well as an 800 which he has had for a long time. Autofocus works well but as soon as he puts any micro adjusting in for ANY lens the camera now locks up until he takes the battery out and reinserts and then deletes all micro adjusting. To be clear, he cannot use MA on even his 300 or 500 if he wants to use the Kenko/800 combo. Anyone else had this or know a work around?
    Nice avatar! Please ask him what firmware is on his 1DX. I am betting that it is 1.02. My understanding is that 1.06 fixes the problem with the clearing of the micro-adjusting stuff but disables AF at f/8....
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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    Interesting. My 1DX with 1.0.2 will indeed lock up with the 800/Kenko combo if I try to set micro-adjust with that combo. However, I can set MA on other lenses and it does not lock up. It forgets everything after I turn the camera off which was the bug they fixed with the latest firmware release.

    When it did lock up, pulling the battery did not fix it by itself. I had to then go to the MA menu and hit the delete all setting button, even though I had it disabled. Then turned the camera off/on and autofocus returned. So, we can't set MA if we want to keep the 800/Kenko combo.
    Best

    Patrick Sparkman

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    Correct on all counts. And if you upgrade the firmware, there goes AF with the Kenko 1.4X; that may be their reason for disabling the AF at f/8.....
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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    Hi Patrick,

    Both my 800mm lenses have not had a firmware update. I checked the Canon-Europe support site that read certain units developed noisy focussing issues for the 5D Mk3 and that was dated May 2012.

    I got my lenses here in Malaysia in 2009 and 2010 respectively I was told these were with the "older" gyro for the IS so they are more audible than the newer models.

    Today I can confirm the Kenko 1.4 TC Teleplus Pro DG doesn't work at all. With the 3 pins taped as in previous threads from many forums it works but initial lock on it rattles before it settles. Not what I want anyway as I suspect the circuitry may burn if forced continually. My 1.4 TC is DG and not DGX as described by most here and must be at least 6 years ago when I bought it before my first Canon Supertele lens the 500mm f/4.

    I am indeed impressed with the focussing of this 1DX and if I end up buying it (I reckon I will from the autofocus lock on plus the 12 FPS!) I shall use it without the 1.4 extender and if I need the reach then go back to the 1D Mk4 plus the extender for the added range.

    It's a shame Canon would do this but I guess if they cannot get the market for the extenders then no one else should. How would it impact those subsequent firmware updates that affects other areas of operations if one was to retain only 1.0.2? Hard call there so I guess if one can live with f/5.6 with the 800mm then it's a buy otherwise keep the 1D Mk4 and pass on this one until perhaps the next model comes along and hopefully the technology would be good enough to give us auto-focus at f/8 as a minimal.

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    Hi Phil,

    What firmware do you have on your 1DX? Also, have you set any Autofocus Micro Adjust?

    Jim,

    If your buddy could test something for us it would be great. I assume that he has firmware 1.0.6. If so, does he have any Micro Adjust settings. If so, (and I know this is asking a lot, but all in the name of science ) could he clear all of his Micro adjust settings by hitting the trash can button on the back of the camera while the MA menu is up. Then turn the camera off and back on and try using the 800 with the Kenko 1.4 again. It might be that the issue is having the MA adjustments set, which will cause even the 1.0.2 firmware to lock up, versus the 1.0.6 firmware.
    Best

    Patrick Sparkman

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    Also Phil, I have test the older Kenko converter with the 5DIII and it did not work, but the DGX Pro did not either. But did not test the older teleconverter with the 51DX.
    Best

    Patrick Sparkman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Sparkman View Post
    Hi Phil,

    What firmware do you have on your 1DX? Also, have you set any Autofocus Micro Adjust?

    Jim,

    If your buddy could test something for us it would be great. I assume that he has firmware 1.0.6. If so, does he have any Micro Adjust settings. If so, (and I know this is asking a lot, but all in the name of science ) could he clear all of his Micro adjust settings by hitting the trash can button on the back of the camera while the MA menu is up. Then turn the camera off and back on and try using the 800 with the Kenko 1.4 again. It might be that the issue is having the MA adjustments set, which will cause even the 1.0.2 firmware to lock up, versus the 1.0.6 firmware.

    Good point Patrick. I do not have any MAs set on my 1DX. All I need to do is set one and see what happens....
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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    Patrick,

    The firmware on the 1DX body (loan unit from Canon) is 1.0.6 and I did not make any MA with either of the lenses that I used. I am going to test the other lens the 400 f/5.6 L that I have and see if I can live without any extenders on this body. I still have the 1D Mk4 to fall back on and is still a very relevant camera IMHO.

    I'll probably decide by the end of the week if I am going to buy this 1DX after using it for flight shots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Liew View Post
    Patrick,

    The firmware on the 1DX body (loan unit from Canon) is 1.0.6 and I did not make any MA with either of the lenses that I used. I am going to test the other lens the 400 f/5.6 L that I have and see if I can live without any extenders on this body. I still have the 1D Mk4 to fall back on and is still a very relevant camera IMHO.

    I'll probably decide by the end of the week if I am going to buy this 1DX after using it for flight shots.

    Confused. With what lens originally???
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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    Artie,

    Both the 800mm lenses. With the 70-200mm f/2.8 IS L the Canon 1.4II is no issue at all.

    It's the f/5.6 stuff that are the ones that will not AF with an extender on but if I can live without it then I may still get the camera as there are so many positive improvements all round that makes it so very enticing to get!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Morris View Post
    Nice avatar! Please ask him what firmware is on his 1DX. I am betting that it is 1.02. My understanding is that 1.06 fixes the problem with the clearing of the micro-adjusting stuff but disables AF at f/8....
    Will do Artie. (Thanks)

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    He has 1.0.2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Zipp View Post
    He has 1.0.2.
    Thanks Jim. I will have to put in a phony MA and see what happens. I have received reports on my blog of folks having AF work with the 800/Kenko 1.4TC/1DX combo with 1.06.... I'll be back asap but need to get started on my 2011 IRS taxes first :)
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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    Brian Carnathan over at The-Digital-Picture just posted his findings and the 1dx w/ updated firmware does AF as well.


    http://www.the-digital-picture.com/N...aspx?News=3022


    I'll be testing a 1dx w/ updated firmware later today.

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    Here is another update on the Kenko 1.4 testing with the 1DX. I upgraded my firmware to 1.0.6, and it will still autofocus with the Kenko/800. I can even set Micro Adjust settings on the overall camera, and other lenses. Just don't set a micro adjust for the 800, and it works fine. I have not done it yet, but I think we could set the overall micro adjust first to get the 800 dialed in. Then set individual micro adjusts for other lenses. Not the best situation, but not that bad either. One real bonus that I have discovered. I can put a 25mm extension tube between the 800 and the Kenko Tele and still get good autofocus. It is not quite as fast as without the extension tube, but not bad. I could never do that with the 800/Canon 1.4/1DIV combo. It would hunt and not lock in focus, so you had to put the extension tube behind the teleconverter reducing it's effectiveness. A quick look at the extension tube tells the story. It does not have the three pins that connect to the lens and defines which teleconverter is attached. So it basically acts like the pins on the teleconverter are taped. The Kenko electronics seem to work differently, so it keeps working with an extension tube between the teleconverter and the lens. This is a nice improvement, and makes the 800/1.4/1DX combo even more versatile.

    I also did some focus speed testing by taking repeat shots between a close object and a distant object. The 1DX focused about 10% quicker than the 5DIII. It feels a lot faster, and probably is, but this also tests my ability to quickly go back and forth between two objects and compose/autofocus/shoot. So it is real world at least for me. I will borrow a 1DIV from a friend and test the 1DX/800/Kenko combo against the 1DIV/800/Canon 1.4III. My guess is that the 1DX/Kenko will murder the 1DIV/Canon combo.
    Best

    Patrick Sparkman

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    Hi Patrick,

    Good news indeed that yours can auto-focus after the 1.0.6 upgrade. I will try a newer Kenko DGX once I get my own 1DX (I ordered my unit after returning the loan unit) next week.

    On the subject of extension tubes - the times that I have used these is to be able to focus on subjects within the minimal focussing distance of the lens. The trade off though would be no focuss at infinity. Why would you be using an extension tube with an extender then please?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Liew View Post
    Hi Patrick,

    Good news indeed that yours can auto-focus after the 1.0.6 upgrade. I will try a newer Kenko DGX once I get my own 1DX (I ordered my unit after returning the loan unit) next week. On the subject of extension tubes - the times that I have used these is to be able to focus on subjects within the minimal focussing distance of the lens. The trade off though would be no focuss at infinity. Why would you be using an extension tube with an extender then please?
    Same answer. In order to be able to focus closer....
    later and love, artie......... Arthur Morris/BIRDS AS ART

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    Phil,

    Sometimes very small birds need both additional magnification and a closer focus distance to fill the frame. I have also used the combination to get head shots on larger birds.
    Best

    Patrick Sparkman

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