D800 AF Help Needed

Having been "wowed" by many of the D800 images I have seen , I bought one myself. I have yet to get an image I am happy with. The images I shoot with my Nikon 600 F4 AF-S II(Non VR) just don't seem sharp. I have also been un-impressed with photos I have shot with my 70/200 F2.8 VR , my 28/70 F2.8(nonVR) and my 17/35 F2.8(non VR). I have been shooting with a D3s and have loved this camera from day one. I am thinking I might need to fine tune my AF and don't have a lens allign. I know there is a way to do this by shooting a piece of news paper or a dollar bill. My question, for this method, is how far away to be for the lenses mentioned and at what f stop to do this at. I don't think this is a camera shake issue as I have a Gitzo Tri pod and Whimberly head for the 600 and a good tri pod and ball head for the other configurations.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Joe,
I microadjust my cameras in the field and often on the subject I am photographing. See:
http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/microadjustment/

Your question might get more response if it was moved to the gear forum.

Roger

Joe,

I am not sure your problem is focus, it is unlikely that all lenses require AF fine tune. Maybe post an example of a non-sharp photo so we can see what might be wrong. My guess is your lenses.

The old lenses you are using are not ideal for D800 sensor. The optics is not great and cannot deliver the resolution required for a tack sharp image on a 36 Mpixel sensor. Remember D800 resolution is much higher than D3s. In order to make the best out of D800 you need the best optics such as 600 VR, 70-200 VRII or 24-70 f/2.8G or 14-24 f/2.8G...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi

Joe,

I am not sure your problem is focus, it is unlikely that all lenses require AF fine tune. Maybe post an example of a non-sharp photo so we can see what might be wrong. My guess is your lenses.

The old lenses you are using are not ideal for D800 sensor. The optics is not great and cannot deliver the resolution required for a tack sharp image on a 36 Mpixel sensor. Remember D800 resolution is much higher than D3s. In order to make the best out of D800 you need the best optics such as 600 VR, 70-200 VRII or 24-70 f/2.8G or 14-24 f/2.8G...

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I have the 70/200 VR II and my other lenses are pro line nikon lenses that produce tack sharp images with the D3s. Don't think the problem is the lenses. I used Alan Murphy's D800 on my 600 and got excellent results. That is why I suspect a fine tune is in order. Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated.

Joe, I would take the camera back. Something is wrong because the D800 takes very sharp photos for me.
See Alan Murphy's photos also.
What do you have the in camera setting at?
I have mine at 6 and they are almost too sharp coming out of camera at this setting.
I get comments that my photos look over sharpened when I barely apply sharpening in PP.
Look at the Mothers day chick photo I posted yesterday. That is a 50% crop with normal sharpening applied in PP.
I find that I can use much smaller F stops if I need to, f8 or f11, that I never used to use because
I can shoot iso at a base of 800 easily and much higher if I need to.

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Originally Posted by dankearl

snip

What do you have the in camera setting at?
I have mine at 6 and they are almost too sharp coming out of camera at this setting.
snip

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Dan- It sounds like you are sharpening jpegs in-camera???? What "setting" are you referring to?

John, no just the settings under the picture control where you select the controls you want, for instance I use the Neutral setting rather than the standard one because
it looks better for Nikon I think. When you select Neutral, you also can adjust the camera presets, the camera comes set at 3 for sharpening and 0 for all the others like saturation, contrast, etc.
Since I use NX2 for PP, it retains the camera settings you select so my RAW images already have some sharpening applied. You can deselect this and set sharpening back
to 0 in NX2 or use the settings you preselected. I just saves time and also if I shoot images of my grand daughter or something, I just convert the image to jpeg
and don't really have to do anything if I don't want to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joe Senzatimore

I have the 70/200 VR II and my other lenses are pro line nikon lenses that produce tack sharp images with the D3s. Don't think the problem is the lenses. I used Alan Murphy's D800 on my 600 and got excellent results. That is why I suspect a fine tune is in order. Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated.

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OK, thanks for clarification there is a huge difference between 70-200VR and 70-200 VRII. the 70-200 VR II should def produce a sharp output. old one will not.

good luck

Joe, please dont skimp on a home AF tuning kit. Get the lens align. You will use it many times in the future with every camera you buy, so it's a great investment.

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Originally Posted by Alan Murphy

a home AF tuning kit.

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AF tuning at home will not necessarily give the calibration that works best with a different temperatures in the field. I am observing a change in AF calibration with temperature. As soon as I have enough points, I'll post a plot.

Roger

Hi Joe,

First off I'm jealous ;-) still waiting for mine. I had a similiar experience with the D7000 and it turned out to be a sub-par body. Problem is returning it now you are unlikely to get a quick replacement. At the same time soft images are no good either. If you can't get sharp image under ideal controlled conditions and across different lenses I'd definitely exchange it. They may be trying to produce these things so fast quality control is slipping. Lens align is great but what I find even better is a stuffed bird, a friend of mine has a flicker that kicked the bucket after a close encounter with a car. It works really well for tuning lenses as you can place it at your usual subject distance and tune away. I've also noticed the amount of AF fine tune will change based on subject difference.

Let us know the outcome either way.

Grant

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grant Eldridge

I've also noticed the amount of AF fine tune will change based on subject difference.

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Grant,
What do you mean by subject difference?

Roger

Sorry must have been too early in the morning to be posting....I meant subject "distance" rather than difference. I noticed it especially with the longer lenses, the amount of ft for a subject at 30ft was different than a subject at 100ft.

Joe,

I'm not a Nikon user, but the best advise I can give you is to eliminate the variables. As others have mentioned, the resolution of this camera is very high. Any flaws in the lenses will be magnified. Nonetheless, it could be a number of variables causing your problem.

I suggest that you set up your camera/lens on your sturdy tripod indoors and do some focus tests. Use mirror lockup and a remote control to prevent any vibration whatsoever. Turn vibration control off on all lenses. It would be preferable to have the setup on a concrete floor or other floor that does not cause vibration. Use a dollar bill or whatever high resolution printed material you might have on-hand, tape it flat to a wall and make sure the camera/lens is exactly perpendicular to the test subject. Take a number of images using the camera's autofocus system and also in live view.

When using live view, you are bypassing the camera's autofocus system and focus is direct via the camera's sensor. By focusing in live-view, you are eliminating any kind of misalignment with the camera's autofocus system. If live view images are sharp, but those taken through normal shutter operation are not, calibration of the autofocus system is the problem. If your images are still not sharp in live-view, then the lens is probably the problem.

Please do no overlook atmospheric conditions that can cause blurring. Do the test indoors and after the camera/lens has had a chance to adjust to the indoor temperature.

Hope this helps,

Alan
iwishicouldfly.com

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Originally Posted by Alan Stankevitz

Joe,

I'm not a Nikon user, but the best advise I can give you is to eliminate the variables. As others have mentioned, the resolution of this camera is very high. Any flaws in the lenses will be magnified. Nonetheless, it could be a number of variables causing your problem.

I suggest that you set up your camera/lens on your sturdy tripod indoors and do some focus tests. Use mirror lockup and a remote control to prevent any vibration whatsoever. Turn vibration control off on all lenses. It would be preferable to have the setup on a concrete floor or other floor that does not cause vibration. Use a dollar bill or whatever high resolution printed material you might have on-hand, tape it flat to a wall and make sure the camera/lens is exactly perpendicular to the test subject. Take a number of images using the camera's autofocus system and also in live view.

When using live view, you are bypassing the camera's autofocus system and focus is direct via the camera's sensor. By focusing in live-view, you are eliminating any kind of misalignment with the camera's autofocus system. If live view images are sharp, but those taken through normal shutter operation are not, calibration of the autofocus system is the problem. If your images are still not sharp in live-view, then the lens is probably the problem.

Please do no overlook atmospheric conditions that can cause blurring. Do the test indoors and after the camera/lens has had a chance to adjust to the indoor temperature.

Hope this helps,

Alan
iwishicouldfly.com

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Thanks Alan. Much good advise give here. A friend has a lens align , so I will start with that.

I've been using the D800E with the 600 f/4 VR and getting spectacular results. Certainly there are images with missed focus, and situations which are challenging, but at reasonable shutter speeds the results are spectacular.

I agree with the advice on testing. I have the Lens Align tool and find that approach works well under controlled conditions. Roger may be correct - that some field conditions cause focus errors - but if you can't get it right under highly controlled conditions going into the field will just add other variables.

Don't believe that lenses do not need fine tune. I have the D800, and have found a much greater need to fine tune. It's not that I can see the errors more, it is something about the camera. Mine run from +/-0 (24-70) to -16 (14-24). Much more than on my D300.

You can validate whether you need it by live view.

Mount on a tripod, locked down, VR off, high shutter speed, AF-S and single point focus. Find a high contrast object a medium distance with a low contrast background (I use something like a sailboat mast against the sky).

Take several shots normally, manually changing the focus each time to be very bad, so it refocuses each time.

Now go to live view, zoom all the way in, switch to manual focus, and very carefully focus. Do this a couple times and take images.

Now compare -- if your live view images are not adequately focused you indeed have some problem. But I bet they are sharp. Compare to the regular AF images. If they are soft, you at least know the issue may be fine tune and not your lens/camera optics.

What I do then is shoot 2-3 images (but count carefully) again with AF settings starting at -20 and going to +20 by 5's. Look for a pattern, pick the best area, and do it again within a 10 point range going by 1's. Repeat until you convince yourself the pattern is clear and you have a good hit.

While not the conventional technique, I think for long telephotos it is better to test at typical working distances rather than in a room at 10'. Others would very much disagree, so getting a lens align (or making something) gives you more data to decide the best setting.

Roger Cicala from LensRentals.com made a nice blog post on March 14 about lens testing and variation. http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/03/what-i-did-over-winter-vacation#more-5916
It's important to keep in mind that AF systems do not provide perfect focus - focus is within a range. Also keep in mind that the best apertures for testing AF accuracy - wide open - will still have softness because most lenses are better stopped down a bit from their widest aperture.
Most photographers will see the opportunity to improve their technique - not because it is required but because you can see sharp focus so clearly when you pixel peep.
I completely agree that the D800/D800E may cause us to pay more attention to focus errors. The detail from these camera is just so sharp that you can tell the difference between focusing on the front of the eye and the back of the eye. But also keep in mind that just because you can see softness at 100% does not mean you will see softness in a typical print.

[The detail from these camera is just so sharp that you can tell the difference between focusing on the front of the eye and the back of the eye. But also keep in mind that just because you can see softness at 100% does not mean you will see softness in a typical print.]

The above is so true. Just because we can zoom in 200% on an image using the PC, doesn't mean that the average person wil be printing something you can see at that magnification. Most of us print at maybe 16x20 or less, usually for the living room wall or for a client's use at the same print size. Joe does good work, so his issues are probably mechanical. Let us know how it goes Joe! Hey, that sounds like a slogan!