Printable View
My first outing since the hand infection surgery.... (See the blog)
Sanderlings, Ruddy Turnstones, and a single Semipalmated Sandpiper--the smaller one, feeding on buried horseshoe crab eggs, Long Island, NY.
Canon 800mm f/5.6L IS with the 1.4X II TC and the EOS-1D MIV. ISO 200. Evaluative metering +1 2/3 stops: 1/15 sec. at f/8 in Tv (Shutter Priority) mode.
Don't be shy; all comments welcome.
Hi Arthur,
This image looks more like one of mine than one of yours... nothing seems to be in focus or sharp... and a bit tight on the left side and the bottom :S3:
Artie,
OK, I'm probably going to regret this, but I'll bite as I've reached an age where my fear of the unknown is diminishing. :S3:
I don't understand why you posted this. It's not in the same class of work I've seen from you in the past... not even close. To be blunt, nothing of the Artie that I've come to know from viewing your immense, beautiful body of work seems to be in that photograph. I'm left feeling that this is either a joke, a test or a result of being on strong pain medication. :S3: So I'll approach the critique as if I was viewing this image and I had no idea who the photographer was.
I'm left confused as to what the main subject of interest is. I know it's a group of birds and what species they are though due to the lack of focus and eye contact, I'm left in an emotional void. I'm not connecting with anything within the photograph that could be highlighted... the birds as shapes, the intricate patterns of their movements (accented by an intentional blur) or their mannerisms (in this case, digging for crab eggs). I'm wondering if the blur was intentional or just poor technique. If I didn't know who the photographer was, I'd guess poor technique. There is nothing in that image that holds my interest. Artie, if I took this I would put it in my trash bin.
Richard
Hi Arthur,
I think I would prefer this as a pano crop - maybe a third off the top. I would love to have seen one of the birds in sharper focus, but this image does illustrate the feeding behavior of these birds. Glad to hear the hand is doing much better :S3:
Check the shutter speed and the ISO. :).
Artie, I think it is something a little different, kind of a half blur. I like the movement that is shown and the behavior. I agree a crop from the top may work.:S3:
Hi Artie, definitely different from your norm but at least you stepped out of your box to do it. :c3: I think I've done that recently too...
It took me a bit to see where the interesting part was, and it think it works best with a big crop from the top making it into an extreme pano aspect. If you restrict the eye to the bottom section of the image, where the cute little peeps are feeding, then I think you have a good thing going with the softness.
Glad to hear that the hand is fixed up. Now don't go and over-do it. No hand-holding the 800. :bg3:
The exposures good! I guess this would work to illustrate the feeding frenzy during the horseshoe crab egg-laying event. So, I would keep it if it we mine. I wouldn't crop it at all, as the birds in the bg are part of the story. My 2cents.
This is an intriguing exercise, Artie.
One has to wonder, why the master of avian photography would post an image that could be construed to violate so many of the valued artistic principles we most associate with his photographs?
What if a newcomer to bird photography posted this as her 'first image' to the forums?
Would the reviews of 'her' photograph mirror those of the same image -- presented as an Arthur Morris creation?
This is really testing the boundaries of our ability to offer critiques 'done gently.' :S3:
Indeed. :S3:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Jobes
Then I would approach the photographer as a student and ask her what subject and mood she was trying to capture in her photograph and praise her for her strengths and offer suggestions to improve her weaknesses. The biggest challenge I feel would be to teach basic photography technique and composition and then allow the student freedom to express her own inner self. In other words to create an environment to encourage what is within the student to emerge rather than force my creative vision on the student. Probably more easily said than done.Quote:
What if a newcomer to bird photography posted this as her 'first image' to the forums?
Absolutely not. And you're not even addressing the issue of photographers of different levels of expertise giving critiques to photographers more advanced than themselves or less advanced.Quote:
Would the reviews of 'her' photograph mirror those of the same image -- presented as an Arthur Morris creation?
Possibly. :S3:Quote:
This is really testing the boundaries of our ability to offer critiques 'done gently.' :S3:
Interesting to say the least, Artie ...
I have done many of these, but most end up in the trash or as abstracts that somehow work. I have to agree with the above that some point of interest is lacking here. But being who you are, I have to wonder what it is??? :e3
I'm sure you will enlighten the group to what your intent was, other than getting out of the house and spending time with the birds. :S3:
Tons to say here so I will be as brief as possible as I am working on a tremendously exciting new project that you will be hearing about soon. First off, I have seen far worse images (the walrus in the muck) win the BBC Wildlife Photographer of the Year Competition :). Secondly, I asked for honest opinions so thanks. Third, I would hope that folks would critique all images in the exact same manner regardless of all other factors. That is what I try to do. Fourth--I strive never to take things personally.
Richard, why regret? Why did I post it? To get folks opinions. Possibly to improve it. The usual reasons. It's was not a joke and the antibiotics have not affected my brain as yet. You say that you wonder if it was supposed to be a blur. Please note that the shutter speed was 1/15 sec. at ISO 200. So yes to a blur. I was trying to create an image that showed their frenetic behavior. It seems from the reactions here that a slower shutter speed might have worked better. I do find the soft colors and the pattern of the birds rather interesting. I fully respect your opinion that you would put this one in the trash bin. I once had an entire group tell me that a quasi-blur of a Great Blue Heron in soft light flying away should have been deleted; I sold it for $700 to Oprah's magazine :). This being the OOTB forum I find your opinion to be somewhat in the box :).
Thanks Andrew, Kerry and Denise for the crop suggestion. And I am glad that some folks (Andrew, Denise, Kerry, and Dan) were able to figure out where I was trying to go with this.
Bill. See my comments to Richard above.
To Richard's remarks in Pane 10: I repeat, each image must be critiqued solely on the merits of the image. What you think of an image, good or bad, should have zero to do with who created it (or, in another vein, how difficult it was to create the image). All that we can and should have to go on is the image itself.
See Pane next.
ps: how's that for brief?
In the image in Pane 1 I sharpened all the birds a bit and most likely used a shutter speed that was a bit too fast for what I was trying to so--show the frenetic feeding behavior.
I went back, cropped as several folks suggested, got rid of the two upper bird shapes, added some motion blur, and painted back the sharpness of the closest Sanderling--front center a bit to the right.
Thanks all who commented above (like or hate). I must confess that I sort of liked the image from the get go. Special thanks to those who helped me make it possibly a bit better. (Better???) :).
Artie,
Can I simply say, it does not work for me, but then I thoroughly applaud your desire for honest opinions.
You surely may. Thanks for stopping by for a look.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Watkins
I've studied this image and tried to find some redeeming qualities to it. I'm afraid I cannot.
I have found that most strong images speak for themselves. IM0 this would need an explanation and even then I don't feel it's a good representation of the action.
Hey Artie,
Well.......antoher vote for "not working for me"......mostly because I feel the comp isn't working and there is no real focus. Even in blurs, I feel you need a central point of interest....this one just doesn't have it IMO. Sorry. You have managed to start an interesting conversation by posting it.....so worth it in that regard.
Dave and Roman, No problema. That's what I asked for. Roman, does this one have "a central point of interest"?
Kind of! Not the classic like your "fire in the mist"......but I think the flow of the colors and textures on this are much stronger! Debating CCW rotation. In this case the eye flows through the image where in the OP....felt a bit broken up. Perhpas the 2 birds on the left.....then the birds form a curve. In the post below.....it may also be that I like cool tones.....so that may be another reason I like that one even without the focal point!
Thanks Roman. My point is that there are many pure pattern-type images (including blurs) that do NOT need a central point of interest. Blizzard in Blue was more highly honored in the BBC Contest than Fire in the Mist; it was runner up in Composition and Form in the 1998 contest, was my first BBC honored image, and got me a plane ticket to London. Fire in the Mist was "only" highly commended (but wound up as wrap around cover art on Light on the Earth).
I agree with the pattern type images not always needing a strong center of interest. I do think the Blizzard of blue has a much stronger flow than the OP.....which IMO doesn't have one. As for contests......you have raised issues with them yourself! If I were to choose between the 2.....I would put fire in the mist higher.....much higher in fact. Like I always say.....it depends who is judging! I'm sure the guy who put the Walrus in the muck image feels much the same way you do about your image......so not sure saying his is much worse IYO is valid....given the stance you are taking on your OP. I'm sure he doesn't share your opinion!
I find these type of images are very subjective......ask 10 people.....you may get 10 different responses as is the case with the OP. Glad you like it.....keep us posted if you enter it into BBC.
My 2c....
For the subject and what I *think* was trying to be conveyed I would prefer to have at least one bird in complete focus and more of the birds w/in the DOF w/ motion blur due to the activity.
I might go so far as to combine a bird from a second image taken at a higher SS.
My reasoning is that I would want the bird in focus to allow positive identification/connection with the subject and to "anchor" the image. And I would want more of the birds w/in DOF but with motion blur to add to the "chaotic" feeling of the activity.
I like the top image because it made me laugh, imagining the busyness of these birds at the time. I would like more space to the left and right since I would like more room for these birds' activity. The image feels tight horizontally to me. Whether cropped from the top or not, doesn't matter, since for me the lower part can carry the image.
While the image made me laugh, and I enjoy it, for me, there is not enough to it for me to want it on my wall to look at for a long period of time.
Roman, I will NOT be posting the original image in any contest :) And remember, it took about five judges to put walrus in the muck at the top of the heap. I am still trying to FIND the walrus!
I respectfully disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Morris
OK......save the finger:bg3:......like I said, you never know with judges!Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Morris
Artie, the cropped version works great for me. I like the abstract form created by the angled birds on either end of the frame. The idea of the birds' head below the fg edge and their feeding action adds interest to the image. I am so glad to see you back in action with the 800mm!
Thanks Indranil. I may try to get out tomorrow afternoon but I think that the antibiotic is sapping my energy...
Artie,
This almost works for me.
I prefer the original post. As a matter of fact, I'd like to see a vertical with more of the same patterns at the top. The pano crop reduces the impact of the patterns.
IMO this would be much stronger if the foreground subjects were making eye contact with the viewer.
Arthur, pano crop works for me. If it were my image I would keep it! As mentioned in my original post, I think it illustrates their feeding behavior well and would compliment any piece written on these shorebirds.
