Upgrad from Nikon D90 to ... ?

I am needing to upgrade my Nikon D90. I take pretty much only bird photography along with some other wildlife.

I have 2 kit lenses neither of which is very fast.

I have been torn between the Canon 7d or Nikon 300s or anything else anyone knows about.

I realize its mostly user preference but I'm looking for a fast camera that is good in low light, good AF, good for bird photography (I shoot mainly in lowlight conditions), etc...

I'm not wedded to Canon or Nikon but rather the best camera/lens for bird photography at the best price.

It looks like the price for the Canon 7d has gone up by about $200-$300 in the past 3 days?!!! This might rule out the 7d unless I can find a good one used.

Thanks for any suggestions and my apologies if this is too vague (I'm a bit sleep deprived at the moment).

Terri

I went from a D90 to a D7000. I just recently got back from 10 days of birding in Texas, and found that I could use the D7000 at ISO 1600 with very acceptable results. I've read many people opining that the D300S is limited to ISO 800 and the 7D to an even lower ISO for reasonably clean images, so if ISO performance at a good price point is important I'd recommend looking at the D7000. I have not used a D300S, but the D7000's AF is a big improvement over the D90 (which I liked).

BTW, I took photos at the Frio Cave bat flight in horribly low light at ISO 3200 and got images I was pretty happy with.

Hi Terri- Welcome to BPN! You are in an enviable position, not being married to a particular brand. Many are in a necessary rut based on their investment in lenses, you can choose something to fit your needs. Canon and Nikon make fantastic products that are very similar in many respects (biologists would call this convergent evolution). Regarding the 7D and D7000, both will make wonderful images for you, limited much more by you than the hardware. Note two things: the 7D has a higher megapixel count than the D7000 so all other things being equal, the 7D will produce noisier but more detailed images. The 7D runs 8 frames per second versus 6 fps for the D7000. In my opinion Nikon has frequently short-changed their customers on this parameter, either providing lower fps specs or requiring special battery packs to match what Canon will give you out of the box. There is a big difference between 8 fps and 6 fps when you need that speed for birds in flight or other applications.

Terri:

If you have lenses for your D90, you might want to stick with Nikon. My wife and I both have D300 and D7000 cameras, and we are very pleased with both of them. We like the D7000 for the higher pixel count and the video capability.

Here's a link to one comparison of the D7000 and 7D that may be of some use to you: http://photofocus.com/2010/09/20/com...-the-canon-7d/.

Finally, you have to decide whether lower noise or higher frame rate is more important to you. But also keep in mind that B&H sells the 7D body for about $1,700, while the D7000 body costs about $1,200. I'm not sure the Canon is worth the price premium.

Terri, I have one final thought for you, since you are primarily interested in birds.

I posted an image of a tree swallow in flight captured with my D7000 here: http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...llow-In-Flight. A camera has to be reasonably competent to track and capture an image of a swift bird like a tree swallow. :t3

Why not D700? It has great low iso capabilities and a great AF.

Giulio

Thanks for everyone's responses. Keep 'em coming. :S3:

Norm-wonderful pic of the tree swallow. It's a testament to your abilities and the camera. BTW-love your Irish Blessing. My grandparents are from Ireland so we have celebrated our Irish heritage since I was born.

So the D7000 is good in low light?

John-Thanks for the welcome. I'm glad to be here and look forward to learning a lot about bird/nature photography. I have developed a passion for bird photography. Which camera is the best value for the money (if that makes sense)? Canon 7D, Nikon D7000, Nikon D300s?

Paul-is the Nikon D7000 your primary camera? I need to check out your website.

Giulio-I would absolutely love the D700 but its out of my price range.

Does anyone know if Canon's prices are going to come back down (apparently their prices went up due to the earthquake?) and if there will be a Nikon D400 in the next year?

I've narrowed down my choices to the Canon 7d, Nikon D7000, Nikon 300s or any other camera that is highly recommended.

I'm also trying to figure out which lens and which company sells the highest quality for the price. I've heard Canon beats Nikon on that.

I shoot every day if that makes a difference so I need something that is also fairly durable.

Terri: I don't have a lot up on the web right now, but here's a photo taken on one of my pelagics. It was shot on an overcast day at ISO 1400, f/6.3, and 1/1000 using the D7000 and the Nikkor 300mm + TC14-II. Once I dig into my Texas pics, I'll try to pull up something as ISO 3200 for you.

Attachment 92458

That is a great pic. I've never heard of pelagics. I'll have to google them. They look like an interesting bird. I also really liked what you have up on your site.

Is the Nikon D7000 your main camera?

So it does good in low light conditions and capturing BIF.

That would be great if you could post a pic shot at ISO 3200 (and anything else). I'll also check back at your site.

The D7000 has been very well received (I don't have one). You might want to wait another 3 months for the announcement of the D400. I am. But even if announced in August, it won't be until perhaps Dec before the "early adopters" have checked it out for the rest of us interested users.

Tom

Terri: My first camera was a D70 and I loved that camera. What I noticed when I upgraded to the D200 and then the D300, was the extra weight in those cameras. I've just gotten the D7000 and the difference is very noticeable. I like the lighter camera as it makes it easier to do in flight images. I'm still experimenting with it but am very pleased. Since you are now using the D90, the D7000 is of similar weight and I think the transition would be easy.

Linda

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Originally Posted by Terri Camp

That is a great pic. I've never heard of pelagics. I'll have to google them. They look like an interesting bird. I also really liked what you have up on your site.

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"Pelagic" is a term referring to the open sea. When I say I run "pelagics", they are offshore birding trips. I charter a boat, sign people up, and we spend the day out at sea looking for birds, whales, dolphins, etc. The bird in the photo is a 1st winter Lesser Black-backed Gull that came into our chumming. I chose it as an example because noise is more likely to show in dark areas. Images of adult gulls won't show a noise issue as well.

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Is the Nikon D7000 your main camera?

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Yes, but I've only been doing bird photography for about a year and a half. I started with a D90 and moved to the D7000.

Echoing Tom's comment, the D400 should have at least the same ISO performance if not better, will probably have even better AF, and will almost definitely have a faster FPS rate and a larger buffer so you can take more shots in a row at top speed. The D7000 is generally viewed as the top of the consumer line, but the D400 will be considered a pro camera (just as the D300S is today). The downsides are higher cost, more weight, and the fact that it's not available yet. Although it was widely expected in the summer, the earthquake and tsunami in Japan seem to have impacted deliveries from most of the major Japanese electronics manufacturers. As a result, a summer announcement may be highly optimistic.

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So it does good in low light conditions and capturing BIF.

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It's worked great for me and I'm very happy with it.

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That would be great if you could post a pic shot at ISO 3200 (and anything else). I'll also check back at your site.

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I'm still digging out and I have to juggle some hard drive space, but I'll try to get my bat photos loaded and post something soon.


Linda mentioned weight. The D7000 is virtually the same as the D90 (I think it's actually 2 oz. heavier than the D90), but I've added a grip and spare battery which do increase the weight a bit more. I don't have particularly large hands but I find that it's nice to never have my pinky finger fall off the bottom of the camera grip. I've also found that the added weight improves the balance between the camera and with my 300mm f/4 + 1.4x TC (about 3.5 pounds). My wife, however, usually does not use her grip (even without a battery) because of the added weight.

Terri, my understanding is that the Nikon/Canon availability situation is going to get worse before it gets better and I would not expect any prices to come down within the next few months, if even then. In fact, I would expect that they will continue to rise as supply continues to be problematic. Which means, as soon as you decide what you want, and if you can find it, I would make a purchase as soon as possible.

Sandra

I'm now leaning towards the Canon 7d.

Sandra-I think you are right about the price increases and lack of availability of Nikon/Canon cameras.

I went to check out the Canon 7d again last night and the price had increased $400 since last weekend.

They were out of the 7d altogether and could not find it at any of their stores.

I just have to figure out a way to justify spending that extra $400.

I wonder how long the price increase/availability factor will go on. I'm also trying to figure out if I should just wait for the new Nikon to come out.

Terri:

I don't think this problem is really that tough. But you should make a decision and get out there with whatever you decide! :S3:

It's spring, the birds are singing, the flowers are blooming, and you risk missing all that!!!

Has anyone heard about the problems acquiring a Nikkor 600mm f/4 prime? I've heard there's a year-long waiting list now because of the tragedy in Japan -- ??

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Originally Posted by Bill Patrick

Has anyone heard about the problems acquiring a Nikkor 600mm f/4 prime? I've heard there's a year-long waiting list now because of the tragedy in Japan -- ??

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What does this have to do with upgrading from the D90? :2

Think about where your photography may go in the future and work out the total cost of ownership of the system you might want in the future.

Look at the gaps in the system, there are notable gaps with Nikon i.e 800mm and very high macro plus there are advantages

Nikon are withdrawing some of the range from the distribution channel to make way for new products supposedly in August

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Originally Posted by Andrew Bunney

Think about where your photography may go in the future and work out the total cost of ownership of the system you might want in the future.

Look at the gaps in the system, there are notable gaps with Nikon i.e 800mm and very high macro plus there are advantages

Nikon are withdrawing some of the range from the distribution channel to make way for new products supposedly in August

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Technically this makes sense; practically it does not. Would someone contemplating moving up from a D90 really regret the absence in the Nikon line of a lens comparable to the $12,500 Canon 800mm lens? :bg3: If they did, there is always the excellent Sigma 300-800mm lens available for the Nikon mount, which is much more versatile and costs a mere $8,000.

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Originally Posted by Norm Dulak

Technically this makes sense; practically it does not. Would someone contemplating moving up from a D90 really regret the absence in the Nikon line of a lens comparable to the $12,500 Canon 800mm lens? :bg3: If they did, there is always the excellent Sigma 300-800mm lens available for the Nikon mount, which is much more versatile and costs a mere $8,000.

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Well I jumped from the D70s to D3s with all the 600mm and 200-400mm before the Cannon 800mm came out, I had a windfall so its not impossible :w3 I love my gear but I wonder if I might have made a different decision now.

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Originally Posted by Andrew Bunney

Well I jumped from the D70s to D3s with all the 600mm and 200-400mm before the Cannon 800mm came out, I had a windfall so its not impossible :w3 I love my gear but I wonder if I might have made a different decision now.

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Terri has said above that a D700 is beyond her price range. So I'm not certain that a D3S or a humongous lens is in her plans. But then there always is that windfall possibility, I suppose. :cheers:

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Originally Posted by Norm Dulak

What does this have to do with upgrading from the D90? :2

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Yeah, so - again I ask - has anyone heard if there are problems getting the Nikkor 600mm f4?

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Originally Posted by Andrew Bunney

Think about where your photography may go in the future and work out the total cost of ownership of the system you might want in the future.

Look at the gaps in the system, there are notable gaps with Nikon i.e 800mm and very high macro plus there are advantages

Nikon are withdrawing some of the range from the distribution channel to make way for new products supposedly in August

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That's exactly what I'm trying to figure out-which system do I ultimately want in the future.

As far as where I want my photography to go-I'm very much into bird photography and want to enter competitions etc...I like nature photography (landscapes, wildlife) and will also be taking pics for a high school football team.

I've gotten used to my Nikon D90 and I tried out the D7000 which has a similar build as the D90 but have read that the Canon D7 is great for bird photo's (and BIF).

I don't have the money (although I do hope for a small windfall-or actually a large windfall :S3: ) for the big lenses so I need a body that has a lot of reach and can handle low light.

My D90 is not good at low light.

I'm not in a big hurry yet. I appreciate everyone's feedback.

Andrew-so you wonder if you should have gone with Canon because of the great 800mm lens? How do you like the Nikon system?

Yes, there are problems getting the Nikon 600mm. I know people who have been waiting more than a year.

I had promised some higher ISO samples. Here's one at ISO 6400. The image is uncropped and the only processing is Aperture's default for the D7000. I did not apply further noise reduction, sharpening, or anything else. Shot specs are:

Nikon D7000, Nikkor 300mm f/4D IF-ED
ISO 6400, f/5.6, 1/1000, 0.67EV, 300mm (450mm equivalent)

Attachment 92826