new 500 f/4 and a few questions

Hi guys,
So I got my 500 last week, it's a very beautiful lens and a joy to work with. It has been dark and rainy here lately so I haven't had a chance to do a real field test but initial impression is that AF works much better on 7D than both 400 f/5.6 and 400 DO. I have a few questions for the folks who own this lens and a 7D to make sure my lens is good before the inspection period is over :D

It seems to me that the lens is very sharp at f/4 but even sharper at f/5.6 and from there it is very little difference all the way down to f/8. I wanted to check if my copy is as sharp as it should be at f/4

here is a sample, 100% from RAW with no sharpening at f/4 on monopod, IS ON mode 1 ISO 400 1/1250sec, light is poor and there is some grain but sharpness should be evident. I used LR since more people are familiar with its output

http://www.stanford.edu/%7Eahazeghi/...s/duckfull.jpg


second question is that I got some amount of CA (chromatic aberrations) in some of the photos, some more some less, again conditions are poor and white feathers against dark BG doesn't help at all but wanted to see if this is normal for this lens, all of these shots were with IS set to ON and mode 1.

Here is an example (100% crop from RAW LR Adobe standard profile)

http://www.stanford.edu/%7Eahazeghi/...IMG_8160-2.jpg

Thanks for your input.


I didn't get much due to poor light but I posted two photos in the other forums if you are interested

http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...ad.php?t=55411
http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...ad.php?t=55412

They look soft. Did you microadjust? Also I normally use mode 2.

Congratulations on your new toy! In high-contrast situations you get a bit CA with TC attached, with the bare lens this should not be an issue, particularly in soft light. Fortunately, you can easily fix it in ACR if necessary.

That does look a little soft. I also usually use Mode 2 IS. Yes, you'll get a smidge of CA in very high contrast scenes especially with the TCs.

These do look much softer than you would expect. With the 1.4TC I almost never shoot below F8 and F11 with the 2x. Something Chas told me long ago and seems to hold true.

Arash- I'm not sure how familiar you are with long-lenses like the 500. If this is your first, then you have a bit of a Catch-22 situation in evaluating the lens. I had never owned a lens over 300mm before I got my 500 and in my experience, it took me a lot of shooting in field situations with the 500 before I started getting consistently good results. This learning-curve stretches far beyond any evaluation period.

If you want to evaluate the lens in a controlled way and take you the photographer out of the equation, I would set up indoors on a rock solid tripod, with mirror lock-up, self timer and cable release, IS off, and use flash to shoot a $5 bill (you won't have any bigger because you've just bought the 500!!). Make sure you take time to set the focus as accurately as possible either with multliple AF tries or manually with Live View magnification. I do this with all new lenses I have purchased.

I was just about to say use a tripod better still a bean bag and mirror lock and focus on something typed placed which is placed on a flat perpendicular surface - I have just noticed the reply above! It is important to manually focus first to ensure the image is not in focus so that when you do AF you know the AF is working properly, it is a good idea to repeat this two or three times to ensure consistency.
Your images do look soft to me so exclude camera/lens/subject movement first, I did use Micro adjustment on my 50D but I have now eliminated all settings and reset to zero. I find very little difference in sharpness on my 500 regardless of aperture - the main difference is DOF. Hope this helps a little:cool:

I agree with John completely and recommend the the $5 bill type test (or newspaper if you have no money left). I went through all this after purchasing the 500 F4 not realizing the learning curve was quite steep. I was using a 100-400 and was surprised how much more demanding technique was with the 500.

Enjoy your new lens.

dave b.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John Chardine

Arash-
If you want to evaluate the lens in a controlled way and take you the photographer out of the equation, I would set up indoors on a rock solid tripod, with mirror lock-up, self timer and cable release, IS off, and use flash to shoot a $5 bill (you won't have any bigger because you've just bought the 500!!).

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John,
Arash bought a Canon 500 not Nikon 500mm. ;)

Arash,
Some good advice already given. It is better to do a controlled test.

Congratulations on the new toy. Waiting to see your raptors through this 500mm.

Cheers,
Sabyasachi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John Chardine

Arash- I'm not sure how familiar you are with long-lenses like the 500. If this is your first, then you have a bit of a Catch-22 situation in evaluating the lens. I had never owned a lens over 300mm before I got my 500 and in my experience, it took me a lot of shooting in field situations with the 500 before I started getting consistently good results. This learning-curve stretches far beyond any evaluation period.

If you want to evaluate the lens in a controlled way and take you the photographer out of the equation, I would set up indoors on a rock solid tripod, with mirror lock-up, self timer and cable release, IS off, and use flash to shoot a $5 bill (you won't have any bigger because you've just bought the 500!!). Make sure you take time to set the focus as accurately as possible either with multliple AF tries or manually with Live View magnification. I do this with all new lenses I have purchased.

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Thanks John, I am familiar with long lenses, I will do a controlled test later. The samples above have no sharpening which most people are not used to.

I would like to see other 100% un-sharpened crops with 500 and 7D (not 1D) if someone has them.

Thanks

Here is a 100% crop shot with standard sharpening f/4

http://www.stanford.edu/%7Eahazeghi/...s/IMG_8538.jpg

Here is the dollar bill, f/4 1/160sec ISO 400 monopod with flash

100% crop with standard ACR parameters

naked:

http://www.stanford.edu/%7Eahazeghi/...mples/WOTC.jpg

With 1.4X TC II, 1/80 sec f/5.6 ISO 800. TC does add little bit of CA but detail is still pretty good? Same TC results in painfully soft crops with 400 f/5.6 and 400 DO lenses!



http://www.stanford.edu/%7Eahazeghi/...amples/WTC.jpg

The dollar bills look good to me and should be even sharper if you stop down a bit.

Looks super. That's the way to fly.

not sure whats with the bird pics but the bill shots are great

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jamie Strickland

not sure whats with the bird pics but the bill shots are great

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It must be poor light, I checked the AF it seems to be dead on, they duck sample also had no sharpening (0 in LR), digital camera files usually look soft with no sharpening.

Forget the birds! You were meant to photograph money.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Axel Hildebrandt

The dollar bills look good to me and should be even sharper if you stop down a bit.

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Hi Axel, I am sure you are used to seeing a bit sharper, one fact that is overlooked in this website is that sharpness and amount of visible CA is a function of pixel size. 7D's small pixels will tax the sharpest optics and any minor amount of optical aberrations will be visible. This is often the main reason behind disagreements among users whether a lens is sharp or not. Here is a sample with 5D MKII same scene ISO 1600 f/4 1/320sec hand hold IS mode 1. it is darker because 5DMKII has no flash :D but it is a bit sharper than 7D. Your MKIII should be closer to this:



http://www.stanford.edu/%7Eahazeghi/...s/mkiicrop.jpg




Any ways seems like my 500 is a good one :D

Arash, from what you have posted it seems like you have a good 500. I am not sure why the birds seem soft. Maybe the light; maybe microadjust issue? I have used a 500 for about 5 years and love the lens. I have no hesitation using it with a 1.4 TC at f 5.6. However, with the 2 X I try to stop down one notch from wide open to pull every detail out. Most of my experience has been with a 1D2. Our 7D has only had a mild work out, but seems equally as good.

Here is an image with my 500 and 7D. It is sharpened a bit. http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...ad.php?t=51154

I know it is not a RAW file, but it should give you an idea as to what I am getting. If you need it I can send you the RAW via email. PM me with your address and I can do it tomorrow as I am not at the computer with those files right now.

Here's a 100% crop of a 7D shot with the 500 wide open (ISO 640, 1/1250). Hand held with IS mode 2. Lightroom presets only. No additional processing.

One more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi

Hi Axel, I am sure you are used to seeing a bit sharper, one fact that is overlooked in this website is that sharpness and amount of visible CA is a function of pixel size. 7D's small pixels will tax the sharpest optics and any minor amount of optical aberrations will be visible. This is often the main reason behind disagreements among users whether a lens is sharp or not. Here is a sample with 5D MKII same scene ISO 1600 f/4 1/320sec hand hold IS mode 1. it is darker because 5DMKII has no flash :D but it is a bit sharper than 7D. Your MKIII should be closer to this:



http://www.stanford.edu/%7Eahazeghi/...s/mkiicrop.jpg




Any ways seems like my 500 is a good one :D

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This may be right but is not really my point. In my experience the lens is sharper when stopped down to about f/5.6 and to f/8 with TC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Axel Hildebrandt

This may be right but is not really my point. In my experience the lens is sharper when stopped down to about f/5.6 and to f/8 with TC.

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Thanks Axel I will try to stop down a bit for maximum sharpness when possible. Thanks for your input

Thanks a bunch Doug, exactly what I wanted to see. Hope I can get good shot like these :)

Thanks again

Arash

Congrats on the new lens mate. You will love it big time. :) I am sure you'll sort the technical issues out sooner rather than later.

The other important point here is that when viewing an unprocessed image at 100%, the IQ is influenced as much or more by the particular AA filter on the sensor. An unprocessed image from a 5D (mk I) will look a lot sharper than an image from a 7D or 50D at 100%.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John Chardine

The other important point here is that when viewing an unprocessed image at 100%, the IQ is influenced as much or more by the particular AA filter on the sensor. An unprocessed image from a 5D (mk I) will look a lot sharper than an image from a 7D or 50D at 100%.

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That's true. AA filter in 7D has improved relative to 50D though. I will be using the lens with 5D MKII as well for larger birds, love the IQ of 5D MKII.

Congrats on the new lens, I have just got one plus the 7D and have the 1.4tc on the way.

Problem for me is coming from nikon where the biggest lens previous was 300 2.8 so I got long lens technique AND canon controls and terms to comprehend !

Andy

Arash,

I use my 500mm since around 6 years and it has been stellar performer since. I usually stop down when I use it with the 2x converter but don't hesitate to use it wide open with the 1.4x converter.

With the 7D I tend to stop down a little with the 1.4x as it looks like the pictures come out just a little bit sharper (In particular in the low ISO range), with the 1DMK II(or s) or the 7D above ISO 400 (or the &d without using a tripod) I don't see much of a difference.

A shot full frame and 100% crop can be found at http://www.hofmann-photography.de/ht...ry-eos_7d.html

good luck with the raptors
Geraldo

want sharp?

Check this out:

http://www.stanford.edu/%7Eahazeghi/...s/IMG_9467.jpg

100% crop 500 f/4 + 1.4X TC f/8 ISO 800 5D MKII Canon DPP default MKII parameters.

How do you arrive at 100% crop? The Mark IV file size is 4912 x 3270. So the 100% crop would be 491.2x327 pixels?

Cheers,
Sabyasachi

Sabyasachi,
100% crop means you blow up the photo to 100% or 1:1 size in photoshop and then crop an area and save it without any resizing, it can have any dimensions. All the examples in this thread are 100% crops.

Best,
Arash