Photography Ethics

Some of you may have heard about an issue in Florida's Viera Wetlands where a photographer was reported to have gone into the water to flush a rare Masked Duck in order to get a better photograph.

From a birding perspective, there is a bit of an uproar.

Here is a quote from a major birding listserve (http://listserv.admin.usf.edu/archives/brdbrain.html) for Florida birders:

"Some photographers think they have a "right" to claim a bird and have everyone tippy-toe around them while they get their prize. And worse yet, they do things that impact the priveleges of birders in places like Viera. Many of these photographers are NOT birders, as John says. This is not a problem up here but we have witnessed it elsewhere. I dont want to condemn all photographers, for some are very considerate, but there are enough of the other kind to cause problems. And its getting worse."

And another quote from a different birder:

"Last year we found the Harris Sparrow on Paynes Prairie about a week before the CBC and I requested that we not put it on the listservers until after the CBC.Sure enough as soon as it was on the listservers we had photographers crawling around in the spot were the bird liked to hang out. I mean really crawling around , beating down the vegetation with no respect for the bird, the resource or the other folks who wanted to see the bird."

What do you think? Did this photographer cross the line in trying to flush a rare duck? Do you see photographers crossing the line on ethics - and if so - did anyone do anything about it?

Unfortunately it happens all the time, so much so that this topic can probably have its own forum. It was discussed recently here: http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...ad.php?t=49651.

and here: http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...ad.php?t=49608

Eric,
It would be interesting to find out what kind of photographers they were, e.g. 1) person with a camera and little photography experience, 2) someone with a consumer telephoto and aspiring wildlife photographer, 3) someone with super telephoto aspiring to be a good wildlife photographer, 4) experienced, advanced amateur with super telephoto who definitely knows better, 5) pro.

I have had personal experience with #1, and #2 in the field. They were just clueless. I've read about others, where they should have known better.

Roger

My buddy who was there several times last week said folks were wading into the water and trying to lure the duck out of the reeds with food also. Apparently the management is considering closing access during the weekends and holidays when most of the overzealous photographers descend on the place.

I was there last Monday myself. I definitely got a sense of disdain when I happened upon a "birder". It has been my experience there that those with point and shoots and lower end equipment are the ones that don't adhere to respecting the wildlife.

Unfortunate incident. I am sure it is not the only one. Though there has been discussion on ethics before, however, this kind of behaviour should be brought to light and condemned.

Cheers,
Sabyasachi

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Originally Posted by Sabyasachi Patra

Unfortunate incident. I am sure it is not the only one. Though there has been discussion on ethics before, however, this kind of behaviour should be brought to light and condemned.

Cheers,
Sabyasachi

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I could not agree more, this sort of behaviour brings disgrace on everybody.

I read thru the listserv threads and it seems the photographer in the water story is only a rumor. It's hard to imagine that anyone, birder or photographer, would actually get into the water at viera. It is after all a waste water facility. Did anyone actualy witness this personaly? I Know I wouldn't swim in poop water just to flush a Masked Duck. I had a friend call to tell me about the Masked Duck the day after Christmas, but I didn't even make the hour long drive to go see it. I still haven't gone. In my many, many previous trips to viera I have never seen any problems other than cars blocking the road. Most of the time the folks blocking the road are unaware they are causing a problem and will readily move once they realize they are blocking the way. As long as people don't lose their cool, these are minor issues.

It looks like cooler heads have prevailed over on the Brdbrain list and things are settling down. If folks continue to make mountains out of mole hills, we will end up with Viera being closed to the public. That would be a shame. I've spoken to the management at Viera several times and I think their miain concern is that they don't want to have to deal with complaints. If folks complain to management about every minor issue they encounter at Viera, the management there will end up closing it down, so if you do have an issue with someone at Viera, please try to settle it civily without involving the Viera management. This will benefit all of us.

I have been birding since 1980 and photographing since 1981 and my experience has been that when there is a rarity to be seen, the bad ethics come out, both in some photographers and some birders.

Some birders, as you all probably know, hate bird photographers! If a bird gets flushed, it's the photogs fault according to these people. If we (the photographers) show up, wait and wait for all the birders present to get their fill of the rarity, then we setup (which usually means we are closer than the birders were), all is good, until some new birder arrivals show up! Then, we (the photogs) are suddenly in the position for being accused of ethics violations because we are "so close"! Then the bird flys and it's our fault. This is when the haters start hating! I have learned to be very extra careful about this "trap" and try not to get caught in it by settling for a record shot and then staying away until the bird is old news. Then, if the bird hangs around, go back and try for better shots.

Whether a photographer went into the water at Viera or not (even with one toe), I worry about the photog haters complaining to the Viera management! And, I don't think anything can be done to stop it:(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Brown

I have been birding since 1980 and photographing since 1981 and my experience has been that when there is a rarity to be seen, the bad ethics come out, both in some photographers and some birders.

Some birders, as you all probably know, hate bird photographers! If a bird gets flushed, it's the photogs fault according to these people. If we (the photographers) show up, wait and wait for all the birders present to get their fill of the rarity, then we setup (which usually means we are closer than the birders were), all is good, until some new birder arrivals show up! Then, we (the photogs) are suddenly in the position for being accused of ethics violations because we are "so close"! Then the bird flys and it's our fault. This is when the haters start hating! I have learned to be very extra careful about this "trap" and try not to get caught in it by settling for a record shot and then staying away until the bird is old news. Then, if the bird hangs around, go back and try for better shots.

Whether a photographer went into the water at Viera or not (even with one toe), I worry about the photog haters complaining to the Viera management! And, I don't think anything can be done to stop it:(

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Your approach makes sense to me. I usually photograph early in the morning and most birders are not exactly early birds. :) Most of the time I'm on my way back when the birders arrive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Brown

I have been birding since 1980 and photographing since 1981 and my experience has been that when there is a rarity to be seen, the bad ethics come out, both in some photographers and some birders.

Some birders, as you all probably know, hate bird photographers! If a bird gets flushed, it's the photogs fault according to these people. If we (the photographers) show up, wait and wait for all the birders present to get their fill of the rarity, then we setup (which usually means we are closer than the birders were), all is good, until some new birder arrivals show up! Then, we (the photogs) are suddenly in the position for being accused of ethics violations because we are "so close"! Then the bird flys and it's our fault. This is when the haters start hating! I have learned to be very extra careful about this "trap" and try not to get caught in it by settling for a record shot and then staying away until the bird is old news. Then, if the bird hangs around, go back and try for better shots.

Whether a photographer went into the water at Viera or not (even with one toe), I worry about the photog haters complaining to the Viera management! And, I don't think anything can be done to stop it:(

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Dan,

I also posted my suggestion that folks try to resolve any issues civily, without involving management, on the Brdbrain list. Hopefully, folks will avoid involving management and we can all continue to enjoy Viera now and in the future.

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Originally Posted by Jim Neiger

I read thru the listserv threads and it seems the photographer in the water story is only a rumor. It's hard to imagine that anyone, birder or photographer, would actually get into the water at viera. It is after all a waste water facility. Did anyone actualy witness this personaly? I Know I wouldn't swim in poop water just to flush a Masked Duck. I had a friend call to tell me about the Masked Duck the day after Christmas, but I didn't even make the hour long drive to go see it. I still haven't gone. In my many, many previous trips to viera I have never seen any problems other than cars blocking the road. Most of the time the folks blocking the road are unaware they are causing a problem and will readily move once they realize they are blocking the way. As long as people don't lose their cool, these are minor issues.

It looks like cooler heads have prevailed over on the Brdbrain list and things are settling down. If folks continue to make mountains out of mole hills, we will end up with Viera being closed to the public. That would be a shame. I've spoken to the management at Viera several times and I think their miain concern is that they don't want to have to deal with complaints. If folks complain to management about every minor issue they encounter at Viera, the management there will end up closing it down, so if you do have an issue with someone at Viera, please try to settle it civily without involving the Viera management. This will benefit all of us.

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I realize unless you personally witness the activity it's hearsay so I won't add further fuel to the fire.

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Originally Posted by rnclark

Eric,
It would be interesting to find out what kind of photographers they were, e.g. 1) person with a camera and little photography experience, 2) someone with a consumer telephoto and aspiring wildlife photographer, 3) someone with super telephoto aspiring to be a good wildlife photographer, 4) experienced, advanced amateur with super telephoto who definitely knows better, 5) pro.

I have had personal experience with #1, and #2 in the field. They were just clueless. I've read about others, where they should have known better.

Roger

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Roger has made a good point here. No disrespect meant, but your comments are pretty weighted. Most nature photographers that I know, spend 90% of their time studying biology, whereas, it's pretty easy to view a member of the general public that has a camera as a "photographer".

Bad ethics come out in People. Not birders. Not Photographers. People. Full stop! Issues like this are not going to get fixed when one side blames another. There ain't no points scored. Sorry Eric, but not buying this one.

Jim

Nice post on the Birdbrain site.

Like others, I have seen a few too many instances of over zealous photographers and birders. While the vast majority use common sense and are respectful of both other birders and other phtoographers, some are not.

There probably needs to be a higher standard for photographers with "big glass" as it will be assumed that they should know better.

I recently experienced the same thing, and inadvertantly to some degree I feel responsible.

About 3 weeks ago I spotted an unusual shorebird at a favourite spot in Western Sydney. I was unable to positively ID the bird and so put a request up on Australia's largest birding mailing list, together with the location of the bird. It turns out it was a Ruff. A bird not very commonly seen.
Over the next 2 weeks the lagoon had quite an influx of people looking for this bird, and some of these people did the right thing by behaving wisely around the other resident birds and trying not to disturb them or affect the environment, whilst others had no respect for the other shorebirds, crakes, ducks, snipes and other aquatic birds and thought nothing about scaring these ones off and trampling all over the lagoon to see this rarely seen bird.

It saddens me that people are like that. And it taught me a valuable lesson that sometimes it's not always best to share location information publicly like I did.

Up here in the frozen north, the perennial battle between photographers and birders over the wintering owls has been relatively quiet this year. The local paper did it's level best a while back to stir the pot, but so far mostly everyone has been civil.

That said, I've seen things on both sides of the fence that make me long for the good old days before the internet and digital cameras. "Point and shooter" unfortunately now applies to far too many people carrying big glass as well, IMHO.

The birders would do well not to throw too many stones, though. I have had many experiences where groups of birders make a location seem more like a sporting event than a park or refuge. Before spotting scopes became de rigueur for birders (back when we were simple folksy "bird-watchers") people actually had to restrain themselves from loudly discussing field marks and where they were going for lattes later.

I agree completely with the earlier posts regarding civility and not making mountains of molehills...hopefully we can all get along and not risk losing access over petty differences.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mark Young

I recently experienced the same thing, and inadvertantly to some degree I feel responsible.

It saddens me that people are like that. And it taught me a valuable lesson that sometimes it's not always best to share location information publicly like I did.

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I wouldn't feel bad about your innocent disclosure there Mark. I am sure you'll know better next time. I have also learned some very valuable lessons and will NOT disclose ANYTHING on ANY public domain or to any people, only to some I know are responsible and worthy of knowing the particular species and locations.