BIF and proper metering

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04-11-2009, 12:28 AM
Jay Gould

BIF and proper metering

Rather than hijack the thread discussing different bodies and which sensor(s) to use, I will ask the question in this thread.

Thus far the experts tell us that using only the center sensor in AF regardless of which camera body we are using is the way to go for BIF.

What about exposure? Since you are narrowing the point of AF by using a single sensor, should you also narrow the AE by using - in Canon terms - spot metering?

With BIF, and using Canon terms, when do you use Evaluative Metering, Partial Metering, of Center-weighted Average Metering?

As always, thank you to everyone for taking the time to expand my photography education.

Cheers, Jay
04-11-2009, 01:22 AM
Lance Peters

questions

Hi Jay - see below - Don't beleive there is a single definitive answer to your questions as it will depend on the variables that are present at the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Gould

Rather than hijack the thread discussing different bodies and which sensor(s) to use, I will ask the question in this thread.

Thus far the experts tell us that using only the center sensor in AF regardless of which camera body we are using is the way to go for BIF.

*** Unless you are a Nikon user in which the 51 point 3D tracking can be very useful *****

What about exposure? Since you are narrowing the point of AF by using a single sensor, should you also narrow the AE by using - in Canon terms - spot metering?

*** Many people do use spot metering - to do this will be helpful if you have a understaning of the Zone system and photoshop cafe have a video on it ***

With BIF, and using Canon terms, when do you use Evaluative Metering, Partial Metering, of Center-weighted Average Metering?

*** Best advice I would give is grab yourself a copy of Artie's Art of Bird Photography II " on cd and study that (The best $ you will ever spend), Artie uses Canon equipment himself - -then practise, practise, practise.

As always, thank you to everyone for taking the time to expand my photography education.

Cheers, Jay
04-11-2009, 01:52 AM
Jay Gould

Lance, given time zone differences, I would have placed a bet that you might be the first to respond! :-)

Photoshop cafe?

BAA 1 & 2 are - as they say - enroute to down under! :-)
04-11-2009, 04:02 AM
Ákos Lumnitzer

Good on you Jay for asking many questions. Just be mindful that there are many wasted shots between "WOW!" ones for all of us. :) I must say I read Artie's stuff over and over again as it is that good to digest.

Fabs and Al Forns had a tutorial or an article on this very subject and I know they were mentioning manual metering and also recently read one of Artie's posts on that same point. See if either three read this and can guide you to the right posts/thread, or I will try and find it for you!
04-11-2009, 04:09 AM
Ákos Lumnitzer

See some BIF stuff here in the Educational forums. Just browse through at your leisure mate.
04-11-2009, 04:12 AM
Jay Gould

Thanks, Mate. Rest assured I will ask every question that comes to mind! I truly believe the only stupid question is the one that isn't asked. :-)

From all I have heard, I am looking forward to reading Artie's two books.
04-11-2009, 07:43 AM
Jim Neiger

Hi Jay,

Here is a brief description of the metering process I use to get consistantly spot on exposures using manual exposure mode:

1. I use a constant in my environment to meter on. In FL I use green vegetation. In Alaska in winter I use snow. The important thing is that the constant is almost always available.

2. I fill the frame with the constant in the same light that I anticipate my subject being in and meter using full frame ev metering.

3. Next, I compare the constant to the subject and compensate accordingly based on my experience.

4. Once I have a good exposure, I can usualy compensate on the fly for changes in subject and light angle.

5. If the light changes I either compensate based on experience or repeat the metering process.
04-11-2009, 02:34 PM
Jay Gould

<o>Thanks, Jim. The metering is easy; the compensation is experiential! ;)

With BIF, do you use the nearby foliage as your constant?
</o>
04-11-2009, 02:48 PM
Jim Neiger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Gould

<O>Thanks, Jim. The metering is easy; the compensation is experiential! ;)

With BIF, do you use the nearby foliage as your constant?
</O>

Yes - With BIF you often need to anticipate your exposure. It's very difficult to spot meter effectively on a flying bird.

When you shoot in manual mode and use your histogram and flashing highlight alert to evaluate and adjust your exposures, you build a database of experiences in your head and this leads to very consistant and acurate compensation. Eventualy you can change lighting conditions and subjects and adjust your exposures on the fly without frequent meter readings.
04-11-2009, 09:36 PM
Ed Cordes

If the light is kind of steady I try to pick out a spot about 30 degrees above the horizon and set manual exposure to about - 1 EV. Then do a test shot or so and check the histogram. If I am to the right enough to get some pixels in the last zone to the right I feel I am OK. When a bird is in the frame I keep checking the histogram to ensure exposure is good. If the light is very variable I use AV and adjust EV to suit the conditions based on histogram. Under these conditions I like manual better as the BG will not affect the exposure of the subject itself.

While this sounds easy it is not. Practice and practice is in order. As someone said we all have many many less than ideal images between excellent ones.
04-12-2009, 09:43 AM
Alfred Forns

Sound advice from Jim and totally agree.

Jay spot metering for bif is just not possible? what would you be spot metering on? Then main point to keep in mind is the bird flying through different bg but being in the same light .... any auto exposure mode will give you an incorrect exposure as the meter makes changes.... can only be right on a single bg.
04-13-2009, 04:06 PM
Kerry Perkins

Agree with the concept of not trying to meter the bird directly. I use manual metering for BIF as there are just too many variables happening at once in this situation. Like Jim, I find a constant that represents a rough equivalent of what I am going to shoot. You can almost always find something. For dark birds I try to find a tree trunk that is in shade and meter that for a starting place. For white birds I will meter a nice white cloud or the blue sky if it is cloudless. Taking a couple of shots and checking the histogram lets me dial in the exact exposure and then just shoot away - knowing that I will have to adjust for light on the bird as necessary. Limiting the variables makes this a much easier and more repeatable task. While the compensation is a matter of experience, this is easier than trying to compensate for the camera meter changing with the background, like when the bird flies in front of a white or gray cloud.
04-13-2009, 06:07 PM
Charlie Woodrich

If the light is constant (ie no clouds) but the background is changing I use manual all of the time. Learned this from Greg and Chas. With your hand held light meter, or sunny sixteens formula, you establish the proper combination of F/ISO/S and shoot away. You don't have to worry about whether the bird is white or black. Your camera meter measures reflected light and will give you a disappointing result when the background changes. You have a much better chance of success metering off incident light.
04-14-2009, 10:23 AM
Charles Glatzer

Jay,

A Spot pattern renders whatever is in the pattern as a mid-tone; it does not tell you if the element being metered is a mid-tone. This is in effect one of the detriments, and it is why at times you substitute meter something of known value.... white, black, or any element you have data based in your mind. Your primary goal is to ascertain and apply the correct amount of exposure to render the subjects tonality properly on the histogram or as desired ...before the decisive moment occurs! An incident meter measures the quantity of light illuminating the meter, negating tonal influence. It is a very useful tool for understanding and obtaining Reference Values. These Reference Values are key. The incident meter provides an accurate and consistent method of determining the mid-tone value. You need only transpose the exposure settings provided by the meter into your camera in manual mode, choose and set a meter pattern in your camera, look at various elements and note the deviation in exposure. The DIFFERENCE will be the correct amount of comp you would need to apply from the in-camera recommendation in order to render the scene as viewed. I recommend using the Spot Meter Pattern as it eliminates the variables associated with the Evaluative/Matrix pattern. Sunny f/16 and more are simple reference values, a bit of wispy cloud cover.. open up a 1/3, slightly overcast open up 2/3. After a while it becomes second nature.

Exposure need not be as difficult as many make it out to be. If you want to learn exposure DO NOT USE Av, initially. Most beginners using Av simply learn to make the image lighter or darker. Manual mode forces you to be cognizant of the light. Understanding exposure fundamentals is paramount to producing consistently successful imagery.

Best,

Chas
04-14-2009, 04:21 PM
Lance Peters

Hi Jay - Check out that Photoshop Cafe video - http://www.photoshopcafe.com/video/products/zones.htm

It will help explain a lot of your questions.

Lance
04-24-2009, 08:52 PM
Christopher C.M. Cooke

Quote:

Good on you Jay for asking many questions. Just be mindful that there are many wasted shots between "WOW!" ones for all of us. :) I must say I read Artie's stuff over and over again as it is that good to digest.

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CChris%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoh tml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><style>  </style> Artie is de man! read up and digest as much as you can of Artie's work.

Though I doubt he would appreciate it, I have a library of his work and printed material in my toilet and use it assiduously.
<o></o>
OOoops! To read of course.
04-24-2009, 10:12 PM
Jay Gould

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Woodrich

If the light is constant (ie no clouds) but the background is changing I use manual all of the time. Learned this from Greg and Chas. With your hand held light meter, or sunny sixteens formula, you establish the proper combination of F/ISO/S and shoot away. You don't have to worry about whether the bird is white or black. Your camera meter measures reflected light and will give you a disappointing result when the background changes. You have a much better chance of success metering off incident light.

Are most BPNers using their camera's meter or are they also carrying an incident light meter?

:D I know the answer I want to hear! ;)

Jay