1dx and 5d4 or 1dx mark ii or just a 1dx?

Perhaps just a variation on an already covered theme but looking for input from those that have both or all three of the cameras. I am just terrible at making decisions on large purchases and tend to overthink things. Have some budget to make a move but not enough for 2 new cameras. I have the 1dx and love it. Great step up from my 7d2. Am wondering if I should get the 5d4 to compliment the 1dx and use it for less action type situations and times where maybe I need to crop a touch more.

Or sell my 1dx and just get a 1dx2? Forget about the 5d4? Why or why not?

Or just stay with my 1dx and be happy...

What are you hoping to achieve?

Any of the advantages of the newer cameras such as all focus points at f8, faster drive speed and updated auto focus system, more pixels on the bird, etc. Going from the 1dx to the 5d4 would be a big jump in pixels.

Hi Isaac, I am in the same boat as you. I have thought about it for a long time, but I am happy with the 1DX on it's own. I also went through the same path, 7D Mk2 etc. But, for now, I am more than happy with the 1DX. We all strive to better our IQ, and yes, you probably would get better IQ, with the 5D4, but do we need it? My next purchase will be a Mk2 lens, prob the 500, maybe the 400DO as the 500 is a wee bit heavy for me now with BIF. If I was going for a camera change, in the future, I would keep my 1DX, and get a 5D4.

Will

I have the 7D2 and had the same choice. My options were the 7D2 plus 1Dx2 or sell the 7D2 and get 1Dx plus 5D4. I went for the 1Dx2 and I have to admit part of that choice was I got in with one of the lens cashback offers plus interest free finance plus more than a pinch of 'pride of ownership' (some people buy expensive cars, for me its hifi and cameras).
I have no regrets about my choice because I think it holds better in lower light levels (important here in NW England - about same latitude as Calgary) and the focus is quick and solid and the images are wonderfully malleable. I do find the all-point f8 very useful and the 400DOii with the 2x extender has become my go-to combination for bird photography - the 1Dx2 almost never hunts but the 7D2 is prone to it in even what seems decent light. I am not shooting massively quick birds in flight (certainly nothing in Arash's league) and the limitation is certainly me but not the camera.
But to be honest I think the 5D4 would do 90% of what I need. As you already have the 1Dx I would say go for the 5D4 and the 1Dx will fill the 10% the I would find missing for the 5D4. If you are running a supertele lens (especially if you have a tc on it) you will probably want to be using the centre point for greatest accuracy especially in lower light levels and in that respect it will make no difference if you are using 5D4, 1Dx or 1Dx2. Plus the 5D4 will give you a lighter weight option for travelling.

At this level of purchase I find there are more compromises than lower down the tree and, like you, I took a lot of agonising. If I had not got the deals I did I think I would have happily gone for the 5D4.

I would hang on to the 1Dx and buy the 5D mark iv, sell the 7d II... Just starting using my 5D iv and couldn't be happier. I need to sell my 7D II, as i rarely used it... Hey Isaac, we could meet up at Nickerson and try it out if you'd like... (5Div) Ill be heading that way in bout a week, pm me!

You have got yourself a deal!!! Would love to meet and trying the camera will be a bonus. Think I am heading there tomorrow night with the wife and kids. I'll shoot and they'll chill at the beach. Hopefully will have some Least Terns babies by then. We can meet for sure. Let me know when you will be there. PM is fine.

Hi Issac,
I have a 5D4 and 1DXII, both have their own uses: For action I always use the 1DXII as the 5D4 is just too slow (fps and AF) for that kind of work but for perched birds or when I am not anticipating any action I would pick the 5D4 because of the extra resolution.

Thanks Arash for the reply. My question really is do you think that the 5d4 has better image quality than the 1dx or just that you can crop more? Putting aside the issues of all focus points at f8, etc.

If like me you only had the budget for 1 additional camera, what would you do? Keep the 1dx and add the 5d4 or sell the 1dx and get a 1dx2.

Per pixel the IQ of 1D is better especially at high ISO but with the 5D4 you get more pixels to work with

I like having two camera bodies over one (backup concept) but you can't really go wrong with either choice.

I own all 3 bodies, and they are all excellent. The 1DX is a backup body at this point. I use the 5D4 for everything but action; the extra pixels are like having a built-in 1.3 crop (like the 1D4) when compared to the 1DX2. But the frame rate is rather low. I could see getting a 5D4 and a 1DX if finances prevented you from getting a 1DX2 and a 5D4. The 1DX2 is a better body than the 1DX, but it's not night-and-day better.

I had all 3 bodies. It depends on what you ultimately shoot and want. I sold the 1DX to get 2 copies of the 1DX2. It was a pain to have to carry two batteries and chargers and although on specs that 1DX2 is not infinitely better than the 1DX, but it is really annoying to have only the center focus point when using the 2X. I also like the color rendition especially at sunrise whn I like to take pics of burrowing owls when there is a lot of red in the light. the 1DX produces artificially looking red, the 1DX2 is warm pink/red light, much more pleasing. Someone who is skills with LR/DDP4/PS could correct the colors, but I feel it is difficult for me to get it "right".

The 5D4 is too slow for actions. I also feel the 5D$ performs worse than either of the 1DX bodies at ISO greater than 1600. Again, with good processing, people have no issue, but I'd like the files of the 1DX2 much better. But the 5D4 is lighter and has more mega pixels.

after having 2 1DX2 bodies for a while, I ultimately sold my 5D4.

EVeryone's experience will be a little difference, so ultimately you need t decide what is important to you and what you are willing to spend

Loi

Its interesting to hear comments related to this conversation, being a Nikon shooter I am also thinking of getting a second camera ( Full frame ) to complement D500.

I am waiting for Nikon D820 which will be similar to 5d4.

Thanks to everyone for sharing their opinions

Thanks so much for all of the feedback. Really appreciate it. Doug could you tell me your thoughts on the differences in image quality between the bodies. Do you use the 5d4 just for the extra pixels or do you think that the image quality is better? Same goes for the difference between the 1dx and the 1dx2. Is the image quality of the mark 2 better? Or do you use the cameras more for the other functions such as frame rate, focus points at f8, extra pixels, etc.

If you were to use all 3 cameras on the same subject at the same distance in the same light do you think one would have better image quality? Which? Ever do any side by side comparisons?

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If you were to use all 3 cameras on the same subject at the same distance in the same light do you think one would have better image quality?

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Can't see how that would help Isaac, unless you are shooting in that particular light constantly 24/7. Each of the three cameras you have selected all have their own merits, you just need to look at the pros and cons for each (albeit that in some areas they do overlap), coupled with what you shoot now and ultimately in the future, look ahead, not currently.

I personally went for two 1DX MKII's (upgrading from two MKI's) because of the upgraded features, but also the ISO capability, as the UK is not know for sun. From what images I have seen of yours, the 5DIV would be more than adequate and put the saved funds to another prime lens.

Steve I can't see how it doesn't help which is why I asked. One of the many factors that go into a decision is image quality which is why I am asking about that issue. I know the pros and cons as far as frame rate and pixels, etc. But image quality still counts for something right?

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One of the many factors that go into a decision is image quality which is why I am asking about that issue.

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Are you now shooting Professionally now? All there cameras 1DX, 5DIV & 1DXMK2 deliver IQ relevant to the requirements of all Stock Libraries and should you have the opportunity to also work for Nat Geo the consideration there is that they crop 3-5% only of the original FF image, if at all. Well that was a while ago, things may have changed now.

I think you are over complicating the matter. You have read both Artie & Arash's reviews of all cameras, right? You have had the main 'nuggets' from Doug & Arash again who shoot with the cameras you are looking at, in-field and are very well respected for their advice, because is based on solid experience, right?

You have therefore 99% of all relevant info required to make a decision as most people do, however there is one area left which is the only and most defining way you will ever know which camera is right for you, as YOU will be able to answer your own questions & reservations first hand. Go to a Pro Dealership that hires camera kit out, hire the MK2 & 5DIV for the weekend, (say $400????), this will then provide the ultimate test bed in which to choose which body is right for you. But prior to the hire say that on the Monday (day of return) if you purchase one of the bodies you would like 50% of the hire fee set against the purchase price.

Job done, right?

I honestly think that you are splitting hairs looking for differences in image quality between the three bodies. They are all superb! The 5D4 gets you more pixels on the subject at the cost of a lower frame rate. On the plus side you can use it with or without a vertical grip. It also has a touch screen that comes in handy for navigating menus and panning around a zoomed-in photo. Its Achilles heel is its frame rate, so if you shoot a lot of action you're better off with one of the pro bodies. If your subjects tend to be more static, it's like having a 30 MP full frame camera and a 1.3 crop camera with more pixels than a 1D4 in a single body. The ability to push the shadows in a 5D4 is comparable to the amount you can push a 1DX2. Both are better at it than the 1DX.

You can get action shots with the 5D4, but you may miss the peak of action.

Thank you Doug. That helps me a bunch. If image quality is not really better than the 1dx I'm not sure I need it. I typically don't do too much cropping and when I do the image quality holds up really well with the 1dx. I guess the real question is do I need to upgrade to the 1dx2 for the extra fps, focus points at f8, focus system and ability to lift shadows. Guess if I can find a nice enough deal I will go for it. I find that even with slower moving birds that those extra fps often make all the difference between the preferred angle or not. Or getting a food item in mid air between the beak or not. I rarely get enough time in the field to sit in a blind or have a set up. Just get a morning or evening out now and then. I think the extra speed will do more for me than the extra pixels.

With regards to the three bodies in question, image quality of all three cameras should be fine for most applications. The 5DS R blew them all away, but with camera shake and subject movement the densely packed pixels caused problems. That is why I forsook it. While both of the pro bodies are of course a lot faster than the 5D IV, do understand the following simplification: if you are working at 1/1000 sec with a camera that has a frame rate of up to 14 fps, you are missing 98.6% of the action in a given second. If you are working with a camera that has a frame rate of up to 7 fps, you are missing 99.3% of the action in a given second. Furthermore, with 50% more pixels with the 5D IV you can work wider with flight and action and crop to the approximate 1DX II file size with no loss of quality. So yes, I rate IQ with the 5D IV to be a bit better than the 1D X II. Not to mention that when you work wider you enjoy more d-o-f as well as improved AF performance. And while I loved my 1DX the AF at f/8 with all sensors is a deal breaker for my style of shooting. And nobody mentions the light weight of the 5D IV, something that I appreciate more and more every day :) Last to consider is the cost. You can get 2 5D IVs for the price of a single 1D X II.

I currently own two 5D IV bodies and a 1DX II. I have completely soured on the 1DX II, in part because of problems that I and others have had with oil spatter on the sensor, and possibly in part because of the fact that my deteriorating hand-eye coordination, strength, and endurance do not allow me to take advantage of the 1DX II's faster frame rate.

I will soon be selling my 1DX II and purchasing a third 5D Mark IV.

Whatever any of you decide, I would appreciate your using the following links and shooting me a copy of your B&H receipt :)

5D Mark IV

1DX Mark II

with love, artie

Hi All, I expanded my comments above extensively and turned it into a blog post. You can see "My Concise Comments on Four Canon Camera Bodies" here.

with love, artie

Thanks again Arthur. Very helpful and I am sure that many out there enjoyed and eagerly read your blog post.

Hey Isaac, YAW. Many are saying the the frame rate for the 1DX II trumps everything. But not for me. I just ordered my third 5D IV :)

with love, artie

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Originally Posted by Arthur Morris

if you are working at 1/1000 sec with a camera that has a frame rate of up to 14 fps, you are missing 98.6% of the action in a given second. If you are working with a camera that has a frame rate of up to 7 fps, you are missing 99.3% of the action in a given second.

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Interesting numbers, I'm looking to buy a new camera soon I've been using a 50D since 2008 and while its been good to me it hurts for BIF.
7 FPS and way better AF of the 5dMkIV would be a huge upgrade for me, I can't seem to justify 6k dosh. :(
Thanks for the comments all ,this is a great forum.

I think for most type of BIF action including multiple birds interacting (food transfer, chase etc.) more than 20 fps is overkill and is not going to get you more keepers, but there is a significant difference between 7fps and 14 fps. You are simply twice or (100%!) more likely to capture the peak of action shots. I also take out my 5D4 quite a bit because it is lighter but pretty much every single time there is action I end up disappointed and regret not having my 1DXII. I still like my 5D4 but the more I use it the more I find it limiting for my style of photography, With the Nikon D850 (45 Mega-pixel and up to 9fps with grip) I think Canon will have no choice other than dropping he price of 5D4. I think Canon would have had a much stronger market for this camera if it did 10 fps.

Arash that is exactly the thing that has stopped me from pulling the trigger on a 5d4. I find that even for not such dynamic situations that the increased frame rate just seems to get the right moment better. The moment that the bird tosses the food up between its beak or the moment the wing position is just right. The head angle that they only give for a split second. Heck maybe it's time to switch to Nikon that d850 looks so good!

When you get used to 14fps even 10 feels "slow". I am not trading speed for resolution unless we are at 15+fps.

Revisiting and still happy with my three 5D Mark IV bodies. Why? I have traded the following for frame rate: superior image quality, two for the price of one, far lighter weight, superior crop-ability with the greater file size, and a sensor that stays clean. Even if you are lucky and get a 1DX II that does not have oil spatter problems, I am confident in stating that the 1DX II consistently shows more sensor dust -- can you say filthy? -- than any Canon camera body in the last six years. Again, you can learn more here. I am confident that with my current skill set that the 5D IV is best for me.

with love, artie

funny I haven't noticed more dust spots on my 1DXII compared to my 1DX or the 5D III/ 5D IV. I have cleaned it once or twice in the last 1.5 yrs. I am sure if I inspect it at f/16 I'll find some stuff but doesn't bother me. in DPP4.5 you can use the dust clone tool and paste it on all the images in one folder and bingo it's gone/.

I am also not finding the AF on the 5D4 as fast and as decisive as the 1DXII... it doesn't rock the lens, especially when you add a TC.


But if I were shooting from a blind I would probably using the 5D4 most of the time, it's great for shots like this one:

Attachment 171216

but it sucks for shots like this shortie coming at you. In this particular situation I was using my 5D4 first but after missing too many shots due to sluggish AF (with TC) I switched to my 1DXII and it just killed it. 2000+ frames of owls in flight most tack sharp and many poses to choose from :)

high ISO 1DXII is also better than 5D4 with low contrast subjects....

I think given the D850 at $3200 5D4 is not worth the asking price anymore, but I'll be happy if Canon refunded $1000 of what i paid for my 5d4 :t3

Attachment 171217

Thanks Arash. You are lucky with your 1DX II sensor. In addition to the oil spatter problem, mine was often filthy. And more than a few folks have had similar problems. Not sure that I agree with your high ISO comment but I sure am not gonna argue with your spectacular Short-eared Owl image :) I have been trying some new AF settings with my 5D IV and did quite well on flight in the Galapagos.

with love and respect, artie

Hey Artie, use 8-point expansion, re-focus delay to -5, AF pt switching delay to -1. Good luck

Thanks Arash. The 1DX II is simply too heavy for me. I do,, however, have two questions:

#1: where do you find re-focus delay?

#2: My understanding is that AF point switching does not effect AF Surround (8 point).

I will not have my 1DX II back from Canon for a few days so it might take me a while to get back to you on this. Lastly, I am not sure that you have correctly named the items you are referring to. Please let me know the exact name and menu location.

thanks with love, artie

Hey Artie,

1.re-focus delay is called "tracking sensitivity" in Canon menu system
2. it does, AF pt auto switching settings determines how long the camera waits before it hands over AF from the center point of the expansion to any other point in the expansion

best

Thanks Arash. I would have bet $100 that I was right on #2. I was so sure that I went to the owner's manual to find the proof. I found proof, proof that I was wrong :)

with love, artie