Advice on upgrading camera or lens

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05-14-2017, 05:05 AM
Bretoteanu Dan

Advice on upgrading camera or lens

 Hello, I have the following issue: I would like to upgrade my camera, which now is a 7D, and the likely candidates would be 6D, 7D mk II, or an used 5D mk IV or 1 DX, from a shop in Vienna, Photoborse.at. My main lens is the Canon 100-400 IS mk. II.
My primary interest is not necesarily BIF, I like more large mamals, roe deer, rabbits (that is when I can get them in focus). About the 7D mk II I have an aprehension after reading I believe all I could find about it on the forum and Arash's and other photographers reviews; I'm afraid that I might get a bad copy ( after all, Doug Brown went through 3 bodies till he found a good one). The 6 D has good image quality, even at high ISO and good AF, but a really low framerate. About the 5D mk IV and the 1 DX I've read Arash's reviews but given the fact that I'm an amateur enthusiast on a budget, I'm not sure about the 1 DX, could be an overkill for me. My main concern about FF is that, given my lens, the subject will appear smaller in the frame than with the 7D, and it will require me to get closer, which sometimes is hard or impossible (roe deer and such tend to be skitish), so the advantage of better image quality, even at high ISO of the FF camera will be lost. I was thinking about using the 5Dmk IV/1DX with the 1-4 mk II and a 1.4 TC II, for some extra reach ( Arthur Morris has some outstanding images with this set up), can you tell me if its a valid combo as far as AF speed, accuracy and image quality goes? Would a 1.4 TC III make things better, or there is no difference in image quality between the II and the III with an older camera like the 7D? Another option would be to keep the 7 D for now and invest into a used super telephoto lens. I found 2 stores in Viena, Photoborse.at and unitedcamera.at, which have a used 500 f4 L IS, for about 4590/4700 euros, the product information page states that they are in good condition. Perhaps somebody might be from Austria and has had dealings with these shops? An advice as to what to look for when checking the lens (apart from the front and back for dust, fungus and scratches) would be welcome. I find this option quite atractive, a 500 at f4 would give more reach than 400 at f 5.6 (though I read a post on BAA which states that the actual focal lenght of the 1-4 mk II is about 380-390 mm, not 400). Given the vast experience of the members of this forum I would like an advice as to what to choose for a new camera, more exactly which one (though question) or a used super telephoto lens?

Thank you
Bretoteanu Dan
05-14-2017, 01:57 PM
Mike Hitchen

The 7D2 AF can be skittish, but in my experience this matters less if your main subjects are large mammals, and slower moving birds in flight. The 5DIV has all-point AF with the 100-400ii and the 1.4xmkiii, but with the mkii tc you only have a strip of 7 focus points across the middle - so yes, upgrading to the mkiii tc would have significant advantages.

I found that the 5DIV hunted for focus noticably less than the 7D2 in some conditions and when it did focus held focus better, but for me, I would not use image quality as the main reason to get the 5DIV over the 7D2. I had the 7D initially and I find the image quality from the 7Dii to be really helpful in post processing.
As for the lens - if you are photographing large animals or stationary birds, and tend to do so in better light then the 500mm f4 would be a serious option. If your field kills mean you do not get as close to a subject as you would like then even more so - the added image dimensions of the 500mk4 will probably negate any benefits of a better sensor.
But so much depends on what you shoot and your field skills.
05-14-2017, 04:10 PM
arash_hazeghi

Hi Bretoteanu,

First, I think you will benefit from reading this article, reach has nothing to do with FF vs. crop, it is a commonly misunderstood topic. http://arihazeghiphotography.com/blo...g-crop-factor/

The 7D2 is not a camera for someone who demands high quality RAW files in low light and pin sharp focus. If those two are must haves you need to setup up to a 5D4/1DX or even the older 5D3 if you can live with only 6fps. If those aren't as important factors to you then it could be a good upgrade. 400mm is usually enough for large mammals but I agree a super-telephoto is a very appealing investment that comes before the camera body

good luck
05-19-2017, 10:01 AM
Bretoteanu Dan

Thank you for responses Mike and Arash, been caught up in work, I had no time to read them till now. @Mike: My stalking skills are in their developing phase, so I don't get as close as I would desire. Can you explain what have you meant when you said that the image dimension from the 500 f4 will negate any benefits of a better sensor?
@Arash: I read your article before I postd on this forum, didnt quite get in depht the part with the sensor dimensions, but I understood that 100-400 stays 100-400 on both FF or crop camera. As you said "Trying to get closer to your subject or using a longer high-quality lens will result in a much higher image quality than trying to farm smaller pixels on the sensor".
After some thinking, at the moment I'd opt for the used 500 f4 IS instead of a new camera, though I've never held one in hand, dont know if I'd be able to handhold it ( I'll try it and get a feel of it). As tempting an option as it would be, getting a 5 D mk IV would mean using it with the 1-4 mk II+the 1.4 TC III. I would have 560 focal lenght, but at f8, and I think I would have to stop down a bit to get better IQ, which would mean higher ISO for faster SS, and more noise ( since I would probably be shooting early in the morning). I'm trying to come to terms with ETTR, I guess in a nutshell it means you have to slightly overexpose your image.
Since the used 500 would be my biggest photogear related expenditure, I'm a bit nervous. Any advice about how to proceed to test the sharpness? Shoot at f4, maybe target a dollar bill, as Arash does? I realise that the real test is in the field, not in a controled enviroment.
05-21-2017, 04:02 PM
Mike Hitchen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bretoteanu Dan

Thank you for responses Mike and Arash, been caught up in work, I had no time to read them till now. @Mike: My stalking skills are in their developing phase, so I don't get as close as I would desire. Can you explain what have you meant when you said that the image dimension from the 500 f4 will negate any benefits of a better sensor?

The 5DIV will give you better image quality as Arash says, and in many situations the better quality of pixels on the 5DIV can overcome the greater number of pixels on the 7D2 - especially if you are shooting early morning. But if you are not getting close to the subject and it is small in the frame there comes a point that neither the 5DIV nor the 7D2 will give you an image that you look at with pride. The 500mm lens will give you an image size that is easier to work with and the 7D2+500mm may be the better option. I am an avowed 'glass first' sort of guy, but having a 7D2+400DOii, my next step is very difficult to decide (500mm or 5DIV). There are so many compromises in this game...

I don't think you need to worry about stopping down with the 1.4tc III - if performance on my 400DOii is anything to go by it will be as good as the naked lens and AF almost as quickly. 500mm f5.6 will be fine.
05-22-2017, 11:22 AM
arash_hazeghi

I agree with Mike , lens comes before the body, the 100-400 is ultimately a short and slow lens (i.e. 400 f/5.6) and it is going to hold you back in most shooting conditions, regardless of the camera body. If you can save every $ for a used 500 f/4 IS II lens. After you acquire the lens, you can think about the next step, re camera body. You could save money by opting for the older 500 f/4 IS but I don't really recommend it in 2017 anymore. You can check Canon's own refurbish store, sometimes they have refurbished lenses with warranty at great prices. the other option is FredMiranada used forum

best
05-23-2017, 08:04 AM
Bretoteanu Dan

Thank you again for you input Mike and Arash. Indeed it makes sense that lens comes before the body. @ Mike: It's either a new camera or a new lens, I cant afford both, so i'd go for the used telephoto. @ Arash: As much as I would love it, there is no way I can afford a SH II nd gen. 500 IS, it's just too expensive for me (for example on BAA used store there is one for 7700 $, which in euro would be 6839, shipping costs and custom not included). My budget is 4700 euros, and that's more than stretching it like a rubber band, even if I'd wait for a year, I still don't think I'd have the buget for the new 500. Another issue would be the fact that I wouldn't be able to test the lens, and I wouldn't give that much money without testing first, where as the old 500 is available for testing in Viena. Can you give some advice how test the lens? I know it sound rather stupid, but it would be my biggest investement and I'm a bit anxious about it.
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05-25-2017, 11:58 PM
arash_hazeghi

Hi Bretoteanu,

test the lens for sharpness and focus by placing omniscience's a tripod and shooting some bank noted stacked up against the wall. that should do

best
05-26-2017, 12:20 PM
Jim Keener

This is a fun and interesting question, one that many of us have considered from time-to-time. Since its introduction, I've wanted to be able to use the 7DII. I've bought three and returned them. Yes, you would think I should learn. Anyway. Great weight, autofocus, and price. My ideal was the 7DII and 100-400mm II. Problem is that my experience mirrored what Arash wrote. I did as recommended and ended up with a great lens, then a great camera. It seems that process works for a lot of wildlife/avian photographers. It's a wonderful problem to have.
06-29-2017, 02:39 PM
Bretoteanu Dan

Thank you all for your advice, but in the end the lens wasn't right for me, I was not able to hand hold it , and with my tripod things weren't better, so I'll try to upgrade my camera.