1DX II vs 5DsR - Which is best for Birds?

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05-04-2016, 01:55 PM
Henry Domke

1DX II vs 5DsR - Which is best for Birds?

5/4/16
Please help me decide which to get for general bird photography. As my previous post says, I’ve been looking at the 1DX II versus the 7D II. The general consensus seems to be that the 1DX2 should be the best if cost is not an issue.

Perhaps another camera I should consider is Canon’s 5DsR. That is Artie Morris’s choice.

Here are some important differences that I see between these two cameras:

1. File Size
1DX2 = 20 megapixels, 5DsR = 50 megapixels.
Advantage 5DsR

2. Low Pass Filter
Both cameras have a low pass filters but the 5DsR has a low pass cancelation filter which means that it has sharper files.
Advantage 5DsR

3. Weight
The 5DsR is 1.4 pounds lighter.
The lighter weight will make it easier to hold without fatigue.
Advantage 5DsR

4. High ISO Performance
The smaller sensor size of the 5DsR means that there is more noise at higher ISOs. The 1DX2 will be better in low light.
Advantage 1DX2

5. Dynamic Range
I’ve heard that the 1DX2 has a wider dynamic range at lower ISO settings. More information is needed.
Advantage 1DX2

6. Battery Power
I gather that the Li-ion Battery LP-E19 of the 1DX2 is able to deliver more current to the lens. That extra power means that the time it takes for auto-focus to “lock on” is less. Does anyone know if the difference can be measured?
Advantage 1DX2

7. Auto Focus
Cross-type AF Points and dual Cross-type are important as is the processor that uses that information to determine where to focus. The 1DX2 focuses with light as low as -3 EV vs -2 EV on the 5DsR. It’s not clear to me what other AF differences there are between these cameras differ but I assume the AF System is better on the 1DX2.
Advantage: 1DX2

8. Frames per Second
14fps on the 1DX2 is an advantage over the 5 fps of the 5DsR.
Advantage 1DX2

9. Build Quality
The 1DX2 is more "rock solid" and weather proof than the 5DsR.
Based on how I work I don’t see this as a big issue.
Advantage 1DX2

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about my guesses at the potential advantages and disadvantages of these two cameras for general bird photography.
05-04-2016, 02:16 PM
Doug Brown

I borrowed a 5DSR from Canon last week for 8 days of mostly setup shooting. And I just received my 1Dx2 yesterday. I will likely be purchasing a 5DSR based on my experience with it. The pixel count can't be beat when photographing small birds, and the AF is extremely accurate. The body (without a grip) weighs substantially less than a 1Dx2. But images get noisy at ISOs above 800. The frame rate is fairly anemic. And the file sizes are huge. You'll need big CF cards and plenty of storage to accommodate a steady diet of 5DSR images. The other downside of the 5DSR is that image review and processing takes forever due to the large file size.

IMO the 1Dx2 is by far the more versatile of the two bodies. If you're planning on doing mostly setup photography I'd definitely go for the 5DSR, but if you want versatility the 1Dx2 is the way to go.
05-04-2016, 02:56 PM
Stan Bax

Hi Doug: In same quandary but doing mostly BIF, how does 5dsr AF work for you ? Especially interested in 100–400 II with 1,4 TC and up.
05-04-2016, 03:34 PM
arash_hazeghi

5DSR is a studio camera, it is not really made for wildlife/action subject.

I used 5DSR a couple of weeks back, I wouldn't recommend it for BIF. The AF, shutter lag, frame rate and image review are all slow. In fact my 5D III feels a lot faster than the 5DSR. The 5DSR can pull great detail out of a perched or floating bird at low ISO (800 and below) as Doug mentioned, but it is likely to miss any kind of action. In fact if I had to pick between a 5DSR and a 7DII for general bird photography I'd pick a 7D2 just based on speed.

I used my 400 DO II + 2X III on the 5DSR, but I quickly stopped trying to shoot anything that was flying as it was pointless.

If you cannot afford a 1DX II the best choice now is a used 1DX which is second to best for bird photography.
05-04-2016, 03:37 PM
Stan Bax

Thanks Arash, just as I thought, will be doing birding trip to NC in 2 weeks, and might pick up a 1DX to replace my 180,000 shot + 1DIV...
05-04-2016, 04:20 PM
Arthur Morris

I have written tons on the 5DS R on the blog over the last six months. I own and use two of them. My 1D X II will be here in two days. I will use it for flight, action, and high ISO needs. I am sure that 1DX II image files will look great but they will not hold a candle to a sharp 5DS R image file. I have made many wonderful flight and action photos with my 5DS R bodies. As much as I feel that the 7D II is the greatest value ever in a digital camera body, the image files are rubbish when compared to 5DS R files. And they will surely suffer in comparison to 1DX II image files, especially at the higher ISOs.

ps to Arash et al: I own a 7D II and never use it anymore for bird photography. Different strokes for different folks of course but folks need to realized the an individual's style is of paramount importance when selecting a camera body. As I approach 70 I am not very good any more in flight and action situations. Young studs like Arash and Patrick Sparkman and David Salem would clean my clock there on a regular basis. If however, the bird or animal is just sitting there I am gonna work clean and tight I am gonna make the best image most of the time... So for me, the 5DS R is right. None-the-less I look forward to getting my hands on a 1DX II especially to see how much better the AF system is...

pps: pretty much all of the comments above are quite accurate. The choice needs to be made by each individual so that they wind up with the body that best meets their needs. I fully expect that the 1DX II would be best for most bird photographers.

For those who will be purchasing a new body please remember to use the BPN B&H affiliate link above. Thanks. a
05-04-2016, 04:55 PM
Arthur Morris

I should have mentioned that another important but over-looked factor is the answer to this question: what are you gonna do with your images?

If you are a hobbyist who shares images online and with family do you really need a 52mp body? A 7D II might be more than good enough to fill your needs... a
05-04-2016, 05:01 PM
Arthur Morris

And more. If you believe that the 5DS R is useless for flight photography check out the images in this blog post:

600 II/5DS R raptors in flight; is this the sickest blog post ever?

And be sure to check out the tight face crops for each image; most will be totally amazed by 5DS R image quality. a
05-04-2016, 06:51 PM
arash_hazeghi

Hey Artie I thought you loved your 7D2 when you first got it :bg3:

Agree 5DSR IQ tops 7D2 but sometimes it is too slow to get the frame you want. A skilled photographer like you can make great frames with any camera even a Rebel, but having a choice between 1DX or 5DSR for flight I'd guess you will pick 1DX if weight wasn't an issue :S3:

I'm sure you'll like the 1DX 2, mine will arrive on Friday thanks to B&H!

best
05-05-2016, 09:15 AM
David Stephens

I own the 5DsR, the 7D MkII and the 5D MkIII and I've spent a week with a 1D X, on loan from CPS. For me, the 7D MkII is the best BIF tool of that lot, but I do plan to buy a 1D-X MkII around year-end and expect to use it for BIF and high-ISO situations.

I did a lot of comparing the files from the 7D2 and the 5DsR when I first received the full-frame At ISOs 400 and 800, it's very hard to tell a difference when viewed at 200%. I thought that there'd be a difference, but at those ISOs, there is little perceptual difference. The 7D2 is the hands-down winner in fps and they're roughly equal in AF acquisition and tracking, IME. So, I shoot with the 7D2 for BIF. I'm primarily using an EF 500mm f/4L IS II. I keep the 500/f4 on the 7D2 and my 70-200/f4L on the 5DsR and carry both.

The full-frame files of the 5DsR are exceptional up to and including ISO 1600. I use it for travel, landscapes, portrait and other low speed work. At ISO 100, the files are close to astounding. I took a shot of the village of Amalfi from down on the dock. Even hand held, you can see into all of the windows at 200% and above.

DPRview just put up their studio files from the 1DX MkII. Compare those files with the 5DsR files (download them for best viewing). As to resolution, even up to ISO 1600, I thought that the 5DsR was the clear winner. See for yourself and judge for yourself.

The problem with the 7D2 is some inconsistency in AF vs. the 1D X and poor performance when the TCs are added, particularly the 2x TC-III.
05-05-2016, 09:50 AM
arash_hazeghi

Artie is right

The files of the 7D2 aren't as sharp as the 5DSR , that's because the 5DSR has no Low pass filter on the sensor, it also has a different CFA. However you need to get the AF absolutely right to see the difference.
05-05-2016, 09:54 AM
arash_hazeghi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthur Morris

And more. If you believe that the 5DS R is useless for flight photography check out the images in this blog post:

600 II/5DS R raptors in flight; is this the sickest blog post ever?

And be sure to check out the tight face crops for each image; most will be totally amazed by 5DS R image quality. a

Hey Artie, you also used a prime f/4 lens for this shot. I did mention the AF slows quite a bit if you use a 2X TC or a 1.4X TC on with a f/5.6 lens... for example I'd say it's nearly impossible to get this shot with a 5DSR http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...ight-at-1200mm

If you add a 2X TC to a 1DX for example you get even more pixels on the subject than the 5DSR with bare lens BTW.
05-05-2016, 04:41 PM
Arthur Morris

Quote:

Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi

Hey Artie I thought you loved your 7D2 when you first got it :bg3:

Agree 5DSR IQ tops 7D2 but sometimes it is too slow to get the frame you want. A skilled photographer like you can make great frames with any camera even a Rebel, but having a choice between 1DX or 5DSR for flight I'd guess you will pick 1DX if weight wasn't an issue :S3:

I'm sure you'll like the 1DX 2, mine will arrive on Friday thanks to B&H!

best

I did love it then :) For flight I will go with my 1D X II :) Mine is also coming tomorrow.
05-06-2016, 09:56 PM
Juan Carlos Vindas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthur Morris

I did love it then :) For flight I will go with my 1D X II :) Mine is also coming tomorrow.

Arthur I would love to know your thoughts once you test the new 1DX II against the 5DS R. Thanks!
05-17-2016, 05:27 AM
Arthur Morris

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juan Carlos Vindas

Arthur I would love to know your thoughts once you test the new 1DX II against the 5DS R. Thanks!

As always, see the blog: here, here, here, here, and here; all describe my early experiences with the 1DX II. Topics included cover AF with the 600 II and the 2X III TC, 65 Point AF, AF with the 100-400 II and the 1.4X III, and ISO 4000 and 8000. With lots more to come.

In short, I go to the 1DX II for flight, action, and high ISO situations. I continue to use and love the 5DS R for bird and wildlife portraits, flowers, scenics, and urbex. a
05-17-2016, 05:30 AM
Arthur Morris

Quote:

Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi

Hey Artie, you also used a prime f/4 lens for this shot. I did mention the AF slows quite a bit if you use a 2X TC or a 1.4X TC on with a f/5.6 lens... for example I'd say it's nearly impossible to get this shot with a 5DSR http://www.birdphotographers.net/for...ight-at-1200mm

If you add a 2X TC to a 1DX for example you get even more pixels on the subject than the 5DSR with bare lens BTW.

Yes, AF with TCs and the 1DX II is far superior to AF in those situations with the 5DS R. As far as more pixels on the subject, Image Quality with the 1DX II simply cannot compare to the IQ of a sharp 5DS R image regardless of how many pixels are on the subject :) IMHO!

a