I need help in deciding which camera to get for photographing birds. Has anyone had a chance to compare Canon's 1DX II with the 7D II in the field? Are there any in-depth reviews of the 1DX II available now that it is shipping?
Thanks!
Henry
Printable View
I need help in deciding which camera to get for photographing birds. Has anyone had a chance to compare Canon's 1DX II with the 7D II in the field? Are there any in-depth reviews of the 1DX II available now that it is shipping?
Thanks!
Henry
The 1DXIi not shipping yet.
I am not quite sure how you cross shop between a $1500 and a $6000 body. I am not planning to compare them but I will compare the 1DX II with my 1DX when I get the new body.
I already have a 7D2 which isn't bad but the 1DX is in a different league IMO as to be expected by the huge price gap between them.
When the 1DX came out, I decided in favor of the 5D3, feeling the difference between them wasn't a big factor in what I was shooting. But in the next year or two I got more into shooting birds and decided I should have gone for the 1DX. But by then felt it would be better to wait for its successor. That has taken longer than I hoped and in the meantime I got the 7D2. It's an improvement over the 5D3 for AF but not for image quality -- I am not happy with its noise or dynamic range in my average shooting conditions. I ordered a 1DX2 as soon as it was announced. I'm not expecting miracles but it does look like a very substantial improvement over both the 5D3 and 7D2.
I have the 7dm2 and the 1dx and after using the 1dx I never use my 7dm2 anymore. If you can swing the new 1dx dont even consider the 7dm2.
"I am not quite sure how you cross shop between a $1500 and a $6000 body"
I realize that it might seem a bit absurd but I'd still like to try. Glenn Bartley has some wonderful bird photographs taken with the 7D2
I've listed some of the differences that have caught my eye so far. I've also tried to guess how important they would be for my bird photography.
File Size: identical at 20 megapixels
Tie
Crop Factor
The 1.6X Crop Factor of the 7D2 should be an advantage since with birds I’m always looking for more reach; even with my 600mm f/4 lens. Teleconverters would be used less.
Big Advantage 7D2
Pixel Size
The smaller sensor size of the 7D2 means that diffraction-limited aperture is more of an issue. In addition there might be noise with the 7D2.
Advantage 1DX2
Weight
The 7D2 is 1.4 pounds lighter.
The lighter weight will make it easier to hold without fatigue.
Advantage 7D2
Battery Power
I gather that the Li-ion Battery LP-E19 of the 1DX2 is able to deliver more current to the lenses. That extra power means that the time it takes for auto-focus to “lock on” is less.
Big Advantage 1DX2
Other AF Issues
Cross-type AF Points and dual Cross-type are important. It’s not clear to me how they differ between the two cameras. I assume the AF System is better on the 1DX2.
However, the AF system of the EOS 7D Mark II covers a much larger percentage of the picture area. That means it’s able to auto-focus better near the edges of the frame.
Advantage: Unclear
ISO Range
The 1DX2 can shoot at 51,200 ISO whereas the 7D2 is limited to 16,000.
The ability to shoot in low light is important.
Advantage: 1DX2
Frames per Second
14fps on the 1DX2 is an advantage over the 10 fps of the 7D2
I’m not sure how important this difference is for me.
Small Advantage1DX2
Build Quality
The 1DX2 is more "rock solid" and weather proof.
But based on how I work I don’t see this as a big issue.
Small Advantage 1DX2
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about my guesses at the potential advantages and disadvantages of these two cameras for general bird photography.
Link to side-by-side comparisons:
http://bit.ly/22kGWtD
Hi Henry,
I don't want to sound harsh but it seems to me that you don't have a great deal of experience shooting birds. The comparison you have made for yourself based on paper specs is just too simplistic and doesn't really translate to shooting birds in the field. for e.g. the ISO values you mention is just totally meaningless....or comparing AF peformance based on coverage.. makes no sense, that's not how you use it.
As was said before between the 1DX2 and 7D2 is not a matter of which one is better, that answer is clear but which one you can afford. If you can afford a 1DX2, you can definitely buy a 7D2 as a backup as well and have both.
That of course, does't mean that you cannot make great photographs with a 7D2, you absolutely can. It's the photographer that takes great photos not the camera, a skilled photographer can make much better photos with a digital Rebel than an average person with a 1DX.
good luck
The 1DX2 will AF significantly faster and more accurately than the 7D2, and that it will have lower noise and better dynamic range, even at reasonably high ISOs, (3200 - 6400) with lower noise when shadows are raised in raw conversion. For me, with its IQ advantages, adding a TC is not a penalty, and I don't see the 7D2 crop factor as an advantage. The extremely high ISOs are going to have unusable noise quality and low dynamic range so I wouldn't expect much above 6400 -- will be happy to be pleasantly surprised but I was not counting on it when I made my decision.
It should be well above comparison to the 7D2.
Not exactly. The full-frame sensor has more than twice as much area; therefore, it's resolution is less than half that of the crop sensor. The 5DS has the same resolution as the 7D MkII, and its sensor has 50.3 mp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Domke
Elsewhere, you compare ISO range, but not high-ISO performance. The large pixels of the 1D X II will give it a huge advantage actual performance in low light.
With TCs attached, the current performance of the 1D X crushes the 7D MkII, so we can expect the MkII to also be far superior with TCs attached.
George Lepp has posted some observations of both cameras:
http://www.georgeleppimages.com/new-page-2
Diane - Thanks for posting George Lepp's comparison of the 7D2 and the 1DX2. That was very helpful! He concludes his preliminary testing by saying:
"Between the speed of the frame rate, the quickness of the autofocus, and the quality of the files up to and including ISO 3200, I'm very impressed."
I look forward to hearing other peoples responses as they test out the 1DX2 in the field.
Yes, great review. I haven't tried the 1DX II yet, but suspect that I'll be getting one. The 7D2 is an excellent body, up to ISO 800, but the luxury of shooting at ISO 3200, when conditions demand, is very inviting. I'd also expect significant AF improvements, particularly with TCs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diane Miller
I thought it interesting that he was shooting buffleheads in really crappy light, at ISO 3200. Here' mine from a few days ago, at ISO 800, with the 7D2 in much better light:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1531/...3007f9d6_h.jpgBufflehead Takes Off by David Stephens, on Flickr
Cool splashes! I have hopes that dynamic range is improved as much as is being claimed. The ability to pull detail out of shadows with minimal noise is a great feature, and not one I have found good with the 7D2.
I read that the improved dynamic range of the 1DX2 is only at lower ISOs. Supposedly at higher ISOs there is no improvement in Dynamic Range over the original 1DX.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diane Miller
I've not been able to find the reference for you. If I do I'll provide a link.
Yeah, with the 7D2 you still need to ETTR. Wouldn't it be a luxury not to have to worry with that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Diane Miller
That's because once you get pass ISO 800 the noise in the image is dominated by shot noise or photon noise this is true of every camera made no matter which sensor it has in it. Which is why action photographers rarely talk about DR and the reason why Nikon designed the D5 for high ISO noise at the cost of low ISO DR. If you look at any compersion chart of DR on DXO between Canon and Sony you would see that by ISO 800 they are pretty much even around 11-10 stops and one you get to 1600 Canon will often have higher DR depending on the Cameras compared.Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Domke
Man, I guess I am just not as picky as most, but my 7D2 performs beautifully at ISO 1600, and ISO 3200 too. Yes, it is not fair to compare it with a IDX or 1DX2...if you have the budget go for those I would too), but if not then the 7D2 should give you years of good images.
Above images 7D2 @ ISO 1600, and the next pane directly below @ 3200. No NR on any of the subjects.
....and these @ ISO 3200.
Yes the 7D2 isn't bad when the scene is bright and there aren't any shadows like the nice examples above... Also at small web presentation, most cameras look good at high ISO including the older 7D but once you blow it up on a 4K screen (4000 pixels wide) or start to crop, it falls apart quickly.
Of course the most important factor that trumps any camera is the skill and the talent of the person behind it.
It would seem to me that the 1.6X crop factor and the significantly lower weight would be advantages of the 7D2. I've never shot with a camera that had a cropped sensor but the idea of not having to use teleconverters is appealing. What is your experience?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Cadieux
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Domke
First you must understand that crop factor has nothing to do with reach, this is a common misconception and it is wrong. The only factor that determines reach is the pixel size. Not the sensor size. for example the FF 5DSR has more reach than the crop-sensor 7D2 because it has smaller pixels.
A 600mm f/4 lens on a FF body is NOT that same as a 400mm f/4 on a 1.6X crop body. The earlier has a much larger physical aperture and collected almost 2.5 times more light (photons) so the IQ is superior.
Yep, I understand that, but I feel that these images I posted still show that the camera is not as bad as what we read about, especially for those on a budget, and is more than certainly very usable at higher ISOs. These four images were all in overcast light, the woodpecker and cardinal in heavy overcast light. I've printed a few large prints with this camera, and the original 7D, and the results are quite convincing to me. Having said this, the 1DX is a dream camera:S3:Quote:
Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi
Henry, I have no experience with the FF cameras, but I do enjoy my 1.4TC with the 7DII. I like the reach the TC adds for the smaller shyer birds.
No camera is bad in hands of someone like you Dan :)
:bg3:Quote:
Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi
The original question was which one is best for birds (i.e. smaller non-still subjects in the wild in a variety of real-life lighting situations), factoring in crop factor and other specs. I don't think there is any contest there, although the 7D2 is certainly capable in the right hands and might be "good enough" for many uses.
Here's another early impression:
http://www.grantatkinson.com/blog/ca...ity-comparison
Thanks. Has anyone done an in depth review of the 1DX2? I hear that B&H is starting to ship them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diane Miller
My camera just shipped today
Cograts. Looking forward to your early impressions and full review.Quote:
Originally Posted by arash_hazeghi
