Stance for Handheld BIF Shooting

Hello,

I want to improve my stance for handheld shooting BIFs (as well as birds higher up on branches.)

When I point the lens down, or horizontally, or even 10-20 degrees above the horizon, I can brace my elbow against my body for better support, reducing camera shake. Also left foot forward, so my body is slightly angled. This is all good.

Problem starts as I raise the lens more. I find I am stretching out my arms as it is difficult to continue bracing my elbow against my body. Once the arms are stretched fully, my photos get a lot more camera shake.

(Shooting with a 1dm4+500mmf4II)

So my question for those of you who successfully nail those handheld BIFs: what is your preferred as you raise your camera skyward? Do you stretch out your arms all the way? Or use elbow bracing? Left foot out more than right? Am I missing something here?

Many thanks for any hints or suggestions.
Ihtisham

First, you shouldn't raise your camera skyward, or you will get under belly shots against the sky which aren't going to look good. You want to photograph birds when they are at your height not above your head.

second, every person is different, it really depends on your build and strength. You shouldn't transfer the weight to your lower back (by arching your back) or neck (by stretching your hands too far out) which will cause chronic pain in long term. You need to build up the strength in your arms, shoulder and upper back to bear the weight. Your lens is light so if you are in good physical shape it shouldn't be difficult. Practice makes perfect

Good luck

You must be pointing up very high if you are getting your arms outstretched and elbows untucked from your body. Normally that is much too high to get redeeming flight images (depending what your goal is). Your hand that is balancing the lens barrel must be too far out towards the front. It should be about halfway between the camera body and the front of the lens (not the hood). For me I also find it better if the lens barrel is not sitting squarely in the palm of my hand, but rather sitting atop my finger tips, kinda like holding up a pizza platter:S3: (to note: my tripod foot is flipped up as I find it bothersome at its' correct placement. For further placement reference my thumb is pretty much on that tripod foot collar beneath the lens).

I can point a lot higher than 10-20 degrees up without having to extend my arms, and my elbows remain tucked into my torso. Try putting your weight on your back foot's heel end bending that same leg's knee all the while keeping balance with your front foot. You should be able to bend back without curving your back and get a good 45-60 or more degrees of upward angle - although most pictures taken while pointing so high will not be very pleasing. It's an easy exercise to practice and you'll get the hang of it fast.

Sometimes the t-shot with the bird directly overhead can be wonderful, especially when the bird is soaring directly on above you. FOr most hand holding try standing sideways to the subject like an Olympic rifle shooter; keep your left elbow tucked into your side. a

ps: See Jim Neiger's Flight Plan for lots of great info on photographing birds in flight.

Artie, Daniel, Arash, Thanks very much for replying to my query and for your detailed hints and suggestions. Incidentally, when placing my left hand under the lens I realized that hand position is dictated by the middle finger's reach to the spot focus button (of the 500mm), which I use a lot and want accessible (is the dependence on that button a symptom of something I am doing wrong perhaps?). Since my hands are fairly large, that places my hand squarely under the tripod collar, which I also grip for support.

Will definitely avoid the two arms outstretched stance and place feet like a (rifle) shooter - already getting some encouraging results from initial tryouts. Thanks! Ihtisham

What and were is a spot focus button. Do you mean stop focus button? a

Hi Artie, the normally stop-focus button, when the custom function C.fniii-6 is set to 7 on the 1dm4, turns into spot af button. The AF point blinks when this fn is activated (ie I press on the black buttton) and it helps me to focus easier on subjects that I am otherwise having trouble attaining focus (eg, small bird on a perch with noisy bg.) Ihtisham

Why not just set spot focus on the camera? Those buttons are way too hard to reach.... a

I don't know how to spot-focus using the camera. Can't find it in the manual. Please tell me. Those buttons are definitely out of the way. Many thanks. Ihtisham

What camera body? a

Canon 1d mark IV

Worst answer :) I found this in ny 1D Mark IV User's Guide:

C. Fn III-6: 7 (Spot AF). If you opt to set C. Fn III-6: 7, the focusing sensor’s active area is made narrower to enable more accurate focus when you press and hold the AF stop button. This works in all AF modes and with any AF point selection method (Note: offering Spot AF in this manner makes no sense at all; it should be available as a choice as it is on the EOS-7D.)

but I do not remember if you can move the AF stop function from those ridiculously positioned stop focus buttons...

And it has been a long time since I held a 1D IV. It does not seems worth the effort....

Hi Artie, thanks very much for looking this up for me. Indeed, that is exactly what I am doing - setting the CF and using the stop-AF buttons for spot-AF. Kinda awkward, but that's the camera I use, so I have no recourse right now. Sometimes it helps me get the results. Thanks again. Ihtisham

YAW. I will try to remember to check it out next time I run into a Mark IV. a

I find that shots of birds overhead often work out quite nicely, particularly when there's underwing details not normally seen and when light is reflecting off snow or ice to brighten up the underside, as we get occasionally here in Colorado:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1551/...378ab8e7_b.jpgImmature Bald Eagle In Flight by David Stephens, on Flickr

Some key points about hand holding a big lens include concentration on finding a good balance point and foot work. I use the 500/f4-II with a 7D MkII and hold it with the left hand behind the focus ring. If I take my right hand off, it'll balance. This is key, particularly as you move the elbow off your body-lock. Use the body-lock whenever you can. Also, I suggest not using the lens foot as a grip. I see people doing this, but it moves the grip away from the center of gravity and requires more strength to control the lens. Finally, always keep a good balance-base with your feet, usually with your feet at a diagonal to your subject. Also, be prepared to rotate your waist and move your feet before you get to the limit of your waist rotation.

Practice these things before you're shooting a bird. Your strength will improve slowly with practice and experience. The advantages of hand holding over a tripod, include shooting easily over your head and then moving your feet as the bird goes by. It can be tiring, even after years of experience. I recently had 12 eagles soaring directly over me for several minutes and I got really tired. Use every opportunity to take the weight off and hang the lens from its strap. (I use a CPS shoulder strap). Practice quickly raising the lens to the eye from the relaxed strap position.

Sometimes we don't think like athletes when we're doing artistic things, but a quarterback would practice these moves and so should we.

David, Thanks very much! I understand the point about balance but have to practice like you suggest. When you say "body-lock" you mean elbows tucked into the body - is that correct? Since the 1dm4 is around 500gm heavier than 7dmII, the balance point of my system is closer to the body than your system. I have definitely ignored footwork until now and it always gets me, so more practice on that, too. Well let me try it out. Great shot of the eagle illustrating your point. Ihtisham

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Originally Posted by Ihtisham Kabir

David, Thanks very much! I understand the point about balance but have to practice like you suggest. When you say "body-lock" you mean elbows tucked into the body - is that correct? Since the 1dm4 is around 500gm heavier than 7dmII, the balance point of my system is closer to the body than your system. I have definitely ignored footwork until now and it always gets me, so more practice on that, too. Well let me try it out. Great shot of the eagle illustrating your point. Ihtisham

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Yes sir, by "body-lock" I meant the elbow plant against the ribs. Shooters with tripods need to practice their footwork also, setting the leg angles consistently and stepping around the legs. The advantage of hand held showed itself to me again yesterday. A great blue heron was flying right-to-left, but behind a tree close to me. I was able to trot 20-feet, set and pull off two, in-focus shots. Unfortunately, the light was poor and the bird's pose ordinary, so I didn't convert it from raw, but I at least got to consider it for processing and posting. It would have been hopeless with a tripod.

If you move your left hand from the balance point, go forward, not back. Having a little more weight toward the back is not too bad, because your right hand is there to control it. What's important is that the imbalance be small. It should be an easy fight, if there's any fight at all.

The best way to hold a camera and long lens depends on the length of your arms and your body type. If you have long arms, you can hold the rig with your left palm under the lens barrel (lens foot turned up) and still press your elbows against your body for stability. If you have short arms like me, it is best to use your palm against the lens foot with the lens foot in the down position. This adds a few inches that may allow you to press your elbows against your body.

BTW, Jim Neiger, "wrote the book" on hand holding. Several years ago, his posts here encouraged me to start hand holding and there's been no turning back.

Yes, thanks very much for making that distinction Jim. I have been going back and forth between the two positions of the lens foot. Seems like lower position is more comfortable for me specially if I need to raise the lens a little and still hold my elbows in. It's those few inches that help.

Yes, I am a huge fan of Jim's work and ability and in fact stumbled into BPN when I was looking for ways to improve my handheld technique and running into the bump focus method.

Like Jim I tuck the elbow like an Olympic shooter and use the lens foot down to hold onto. One advantage for me being a left eye dominant shooter is I'm able to brace the lower left corner of the camera body (especially the large 1D series) on my left shoulder giving me more stability and it reduces the strain on my arm. Try it if you're left eye dominant.

Hi Robert, Thanks - I too look into the viewfinder with my left eye. You are resting the bottom left corner of the camera on your left shoulder as you are looking through the finder? (obviously...) But I find that I have to rotate my left shoulder clockwise a bit, and also scrunch up the left side of my neck to make this possible. Is it different human-body geometries or am I missing something?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ihtisham Kabir

Hi Robert, Thanks - I too look into the viewfinder with my left eye. You are resting the bottom left corner of the camera on your left shoulder as you are looking through the finder? (obviously...) But I find that I have to rotate my left shoulder clockwise a bit, and also scrunch up the left side of my neck to make this possible. Is it different human-body geometries or am I missing something?

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There could be some body type differences that make it harder for you or it may just take a bit of practice. I do rotate my shoulder clockwise and stand more with my legs somewhat perpendicular to target. I may scrunch my neck a bit as well... I can either tuck the corner of the camera into my shoulder at the end of the clavicle or rest it on top of my shoulder, both methods work for me. I developed this technique when I was having elbow problems (repetitive use tendonitis from handholding long lenses) to reduce the stress on my elbow. After a while I got used to it and it has helped! Now I see the other benefits from the technique (stability) as well. Try it for a while and perhaps it will grow on you :bg3:

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Originally Posted by D. Robert Franz

There could be some body type differences that make it harder for you or it may just take a bit of practice. I do rotate my shoulder clockwise and stand more with my legs perpendicular to target. I may scrunch my neck a bit as well... I can either tuck the corner of the camera into my shoulder at the end of the clavicle or rest it on top of my shoulder, both methods work for me. I developed this technique when I was having elbow problems (repetitive use tendonitis from handholding long lenses) to reduce the stress on my elbow. After a while I got used to it and it has helped! Now I see the other benefits from the technique (stability) as well. Try it for a while and perhaps it will grow on you :bg3:

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Okay, I don't think I can use my left eye, but it's worth a try.

You bring up an important subject related to hand holding, ligament strain and inflammation. I experience inflammation in my right medial collateral ligament. I feel no stress while I'm hand holding my rig, but an hour or so later, I may feel inflammation. Icing and analgesics reduces the inflammation, but does not completely resolve it.

Talking to my doctor, the problem is not necessarily related to weight, but the combination of holding a position and bending and rotating the wrist at the same time. She suggested a brace that applies pressure to the ligament, but that doesn't really seem to help. I'm right-eye dominant and haven't figured out an alternative way to hold the lens.

Does anyone have any successful strategies for dealing with this in a right-eye dominant hold?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Stephens

Okay, I don't think I can use my left eye, but it's worth a try.

You bring up an important subject related to hand holding, ligament strain and inflammation. I experience inflammation in my right medial collateral ligament. I feel no stress while I'm hand holding my rig, but an hour or so later, I may feel inflammation. Icing and analgesics reduces the inflammation, but does not completely resolve it.

Talking to my doctor, the problem is not necessarily related to weight, but the combination of holding a position and bending and rotating the wrist at the same time. She suggested a brace that applies pressure to the ligament, but that doesn't really seem to help. I'm right-eye dominant and haven't figured out an alternative way to hold the lens.

Does anyone have any successful strategies for dealing with this in a right-eye dominant hold?

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David it seems your elbow pain was opposite of mine. My pain was the inside of my left elbow commonly called golfers elbow vs. tennis elbow which you had. It became so bad I could barely lift my coffee cup and that my friend is a catastrophe. A friend of mines son is a big rock climber, this is apparently a common problem with rock climbers. He showed me a couple of simple exercises that worked wonders for me. Anti inflammatories and braces didn't help me much either. You might do a bit of research on rehabilitation of elbows to find some exercises to do. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by D. Robert Franz

David it seems your elbow pain was opposite of mine. My pain was the inside of my left elbow commonly called golfers elbow vs. tennis elbow which you had. It became so bad I could barely lift my coffee cup and that my friend is a catastrophe. A friend of mines son is a big rock climber, this is apparently a common problem with rock climbers. He showed me a couple of simple exercises that worked wonders for me. Anti inflammatories and braces didn't help me much either. You might do a bit of research on rehabilitation of elbows to find some exercises to do. Good luck!

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Thanks.

Like yours, mine is "throwers' elbow", aka "golfers' elbow", on the inside of the right elbow. "Tennis elbow" is anterior, or on the outside of the arm. Mines right, yours is left. I have no discomfort at all on the left side. Mine doesn't sound near as severe as yours, but it's chronic and I'm worried that it might get worse.

Those exercises sound intriguing. Do have a link or name for them? Did the change in your grip and the exercises totally relieve the pain?

Anyone else experiencing this?

David, I did have a link to them at one time... Not sure where they are now? I'm leaving for Alaska tomorrow so busy preparing today. The best exercise for me was using a small sledge hammer 3-5 lb head? While sitting I'd rest my left elbow on my left knee holding the sledge hammer straight up. I'd then slowly rotate, lowering the arm to the left as far as I could 45-60 degrees. Then stop and with your right hand pull the hammer/arm back to vertical. This is very important not to use the elbow to pull hammer back up. Do 10-20 reps 2 or 3 times a day. Can you visualize this?? The closer your hand is to the head of the hammer the less resistance you have and the further from the head the more resistance. Over time go further and further from the head of the hammer.

At this time I'm pretty much pain free:bg3:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by D. Robert Franz

David, I did have a link to them at one time... Not sure where they are now? I'm leaving for Alaska tomorrow so busy preparing today. The best exercise for me was using a small sledge hammer 3-5 lb head? While sitting I'd rest my left elbow on my left knee holding the sledge hammer straight up. I'd then slowly rotate, lowering the arm to the left as far as I could 45-60 degrees. Then stop and with your right hand pull the hammer/arm back to vertical. This is very important not to use the elbow to pull hammer back up. Do 10-20 reps 2 or 3 times a day. Can you visualize this?? The closer your hand is to the head of the hammer the less resistance you have and the further from the head the more resistance. Over time go further and further from the head of the hammer.

At this time I'm pretty much pain free:bg3:

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Yes, buddy, I think I've got it. I've got a 3-lb hand weight that should do nicely.

Have a great trip.

I had a similar problem years ago, but with tennis elbow. I had to quit playing and definitely had the coffee cup issue. A coach showed me a similar-sounding thing with a hand weight, repetitive lifting with all motion from the wrist with the forearm resting horizontally on a chair arm. I was amazed, but it completely cured the issue and I was able to go back to playing in a few months.

Hope you have similar results!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Stephens

Thanks.

Like yours, mine is "throwers' elbow", aka "golfers' elbow", on the inside of the right elbow. "Tennis elbow" is anterior, or on the outside of the arm. Mines right, yours is left. I have no discomfort at all on the left side. Mine doesn't sound near as severe as yours, but it's chronic and I'm worried that it might get worse.

Those exercises sound intriguing. Do have a link or name for them? Did the change in your grip and the exercises totally relieve the pain?

Anyone else experiencing this?

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I have experience some painful disconfort on my left shoulder, the one where I carry my heavy rig, and I am a bit worried if it will limit me in the future for BIF. Right now, most of my work is birds perching but I am willing to step forward and start doing some BIF especially after seeing so many wonderful images in this forum.