6D versus 7D / 5D mk3?

I currently own a 7D which I have had for over two years. My main gripe with the 7D is it's inconsistency to focus accurately despite doing several MA's but I must admit my last MA is very good [+7]. In my experience the AF will always jump to the brightest part of the subject so photographing darker subjects has nearly always resulted in soft focus. Artie's comments on should one get a 1DX or a 5D mk3 got me very interested so I checked out several reviews on the 5D mk3 and found one that compared it to a 6D which I found extremely interesting. The 6D has the same processor as the 5D [14-bit Digic 5+], same ISO range 100-25,600, same light metre segments 63 zone, 2 colors, where it falls off is 20mp sensor [5D 22mp], 4.5 FPS [5D 6FPS], 11 focal points [5D 61 focal points]. When I look to upgrade my PC the processor is the first thing I look at. I know Arash will shoot holes in my reasoning but I cannot afford a 5D mk3 let alone a 1DX. The only thing I do not know is, will the AF be the same as a 7D?. Also I am very aware what I will be losing if I change from a 7D to a 6D...........8FPS, 19 focal points, crop sensor but, look what I am gaining more powerful processor, fantastic high ISO for low light, full size sensor........am I nuts?, please give me your 2 cents worth!

A friend of mine has exactly the same dilemma so I will watch this space ;)

As you discovered with your 7D, AF accuracy and consistency is one of the very most important aspects for shooting birds, particularly BIF. The 5D MkIII is a huge improvement over the 7D in that regard and the 6D is not. The power of the processor isn't as important as how it's used. The 5D3 puts the most emphasis on AF system of the three cameras mentioned in the title.

OTOH, if you're going to shoot portraits, landscapes and travel, then the 6D is a fine camera, but so is the 7D.

Hey Brian,

Not shooting holes! :) your reasoning is justified :)

But the processor (DIGIC) does not really matter much since you are shooting in RAW. the Digic processor is mainly used for in-camera JPEG conversion, NR etc. which you do with your desktop machine.

Unfortunately the 6D is a toy camera, sensor is nice but it is very slow and its AF is a very basic system ( no assist points, obsolete technology and slow) which puts it under the 7D in terms of overall performance for subjects like BIF. It takes only SD cards, Canon do not support high speed write to SD cards so the buffer will take a long time to clear causing you to miss the action. It also has plastic panels and not built to last if used in harsh conditions outdoors.

If you want to buy a better camera you should look at a used 5D3 or a used 1D4. Prices for used 5D3 have come down quite a bit.

Hey Brian,, Arash is right, that 6D is kind of cheap don't think you will be happy with it..The canon 1d 4 really seems to be holding its resale value well at around 3grand close to the same price as the a 5d3.. Arash on the cheaper side how do you feel about a 5D2 or the old 1D3 ? thankyou.

Thanks Arash for your frank and honest answer, camera technology is getting very complex and sometimes one cannot see the wood for the trees [let alone the birds!:2eyes2:]

Man I feel your pain. I went thru the same thing. The AF on a used IV will amaze you coming from a 7D. Just save and get a used one.
I personally would skip the 5D III. The 7D is a love hate relationship with me.
Good luck.

www.flickr.com/photos/avianphotos
www.birdsthatfart.com

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Originally Posted by Gary Kinard

Man I feel your pain. I went thru the same thing. The AF on a used IV will amaze you coming from a 7D. Just save and get a used one.
I personally would skip the 5D III. The 7D is a love hate relationship with me.
Good luck.

www.flickr.com/photos/avianphotos
www.birdsthatfart.com

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Why would you skip the 5D MkIII? It fixes the 7D's AF problems and then some. With AF down to f/8, it's become a very flexible and powerful camera.

I'm watching this with interest as I've been wrestling with this one too. I've been thinking of buying a body to move my 7D to 'second body' status. I've been debating looking for a used 1D4, buying a new 5D3, or waiting to see if a 7D2 shows up in the next several months. For the moment, at least, I'm waiting. I'm afraid I'd miss my crop-sensor if I bought the 5D3.

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Originally Posted by Ian Cassell

I'm watching this with interest as I've been wrestling with this one too. I've been thinking of buying a body to move my 7D to 'second body' status. I've been debating looking for a used 1D4, buying a new 5D3, or waiting to see if a 7D2 shows up in the next several months. For the moment, at least, I'm waiting. I'm afraid I'd miss my crop-sensor if I bought the 5D3.

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An in focus FF image beats an OOF crop sensor image every time. I had the same concern before I moved from the 7D to the 5D MkIII, but it was never an issue. Now that I'm routinely using the EF 2.0x TC-III, the resulting images blow away my previous 7D efforts.

That said, I too anxiously await the 7D MkII. If it gets the 5D3's AF system and AF at f/8, it'll be a world beater.

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Originally Posted by David Stephens

Why would you skip the 5D MkIII? It fixes the 7D's AF problems and then some. With AF down to f/8, it's become a very flexible and powerful camera.

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I tried the 5D III several times. I have friends that shoot with it. Side by side with them I consistently get more shots of BIF, even stationary or static shots. I personally just do not like it. The crop mode on the IV is just a good compromise for me. I loved the 7D crop. I am not a FF fan what so ever. Just me. If you want a glowing review of it for birding there are several guys that love it here. Just not me. I am hoping for a FF high MP or a good crop camera to come along. I shoot Pentax K-5 and Sigma also. I LOVE that sensor in a crop camera. It just rocks. But AF, sucks. So for me I am waiting for the next crop camera from Canon or Pentax. Really do not care which.

Optically the Sigma 500mm F4.5 is a very underrated lens IMO. When and if Pentax ever??? comes out with a good crop camera I will be in heaven.

One other thing, I am not a fan of T.C's at all. I know the main guys here love them and use them. I hate them with a passion. Except on my 300mm lens I will use a 1.4. That 300mm lens amazes me. Even with a 1.4 I can easily hand hold it and get razor sharp shots. Just a joy to use for me. Om my other lens they slow me down to a crawl. I need a tripod and long lens technique. With FF I would be miserable.
I love run an gun photography. I love the new lenses. The let me run an gun.. LOL


www.flickr.com/photos/avianphotos
www.birdsthatfart.com

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Originally Posted by Brian Steele-Drew

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In my experience the AF will always jump to the brightest part of the subject so photographing darker subjects has nearly always resulted in soft focus.
snip

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Hi Brian- In my experience this is a feature of AF systems in general. However, it is possible that some cameras do it more than others.

Gary, are you saying that shooting a 1D MkIV you get a higher keeper rate than your friends shooting a 5D MkIII? If so, I understand and that's consistent with what most people say. I didn't understand how the Pentax and the 7D related to your comment.

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Originally Posted by David Stephens

Gary, are you saying that shooting a 1D MkIV you get a higher keeper rate than your friends shooting a 5D MkIII? If so, I understand and that's consistent with what most people say. I didn't understand how the Pentax and the 7D related to your comment.

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Yes the keeper rate with the IV is great for me. I am not a professional by any means. So this is what I like and what works for me!
But after shooting with the IV. Personally if I Had to go full frame I would save up for the ID series camera. If at all possible.

7D and Pentax K-5 both had poor AF. The Pentax being the worst by quite a bit.
That's it for me. I am heading out to shoot some pics.
Good luck, Gary

5D III AF is superb. Basically the same AF system as the 1D X without the frame rate. And the files kill the 7D files.

I am considering a 6D also to use as my travel camera because of its weight/size, Full frame and high IQ for scenics and the fact that it has the GPS feature which I have found to be fun using it in google maps.
Is there anyone on this forum that has actually used one for Birding? Not just assumptions or guesses due to on paper specs.
I use the center point for my BIFs almost all the time anyway and if its as good as the 5DMK3 I would prefer the 6D.
Thanks
Larry