Do you like your images messed with?

Every forum has it's own small habits, and I'm still new here. Is it common for members here to rework a person's image post to the way they like to see it and then post it in the OP's thread? While I am all for learning and teaching, I find this very annoying. It's happened a few times to me here already. If you don't mind my saying so, I consider myself quite an experienced landscape photographer and a serious user of Photoshop for over twelve years, working with 4x5, 6x7 MF and pro digital systems. I've had seven successful solo exhibitions. My final prints have no nits (I think!). I certainly don't mind any and all criticism, but just tell me what you think and don't try to fix a web-sized jpeg. I just would never do that to another's image. But I will make courteous, constructive comments if I feel the poster is OK with that. Thanks for listening.

Jeffrey,

It is explained in the forum guidelines, point 6: http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/guidelines.aspx

Personally I have no problem in others re-editing my pix, in fact I value it.
May not agree with all re-edits but still appreciate the efforts made. LOL.
Not sure if it's the correct expression but "to see ourselves as others see us"
i.e. a re-edit of an image to what the re-editor feels comfortable with.
If I don't want others to use their creative licence I would not post it here.
Ian Mc

Image reposts are allowed as part of the BPN guidelines as pointed out by Axel.
But some people are very sensitive to having there images modified and other forum sites allow you to set the preference in your avatar side bar as "Edit my images:Yes" or "Edit my images: No".
For me it is a problem only when the repost is worse than the origional :)

Robert

Being that I am learning a lot from repost images, I love it. For the people that are not as skilled in PS it shows what you can do. To the people that are skilled in PS, there is much to be learned and something new learned can not bad thing IMHO.

I agree with Trey. Although I can do a lot with PS, I learn a lot from what others can do with a photo. What I really like about this site is the hands-on help that people are willing to offer. I hope it doesn't change.

Sid

Good replies. I like all that stuff, too. I think it's better explained.

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Originally Posted by Jeffrey Sipress

........ But I will make courteous, constructive comments if I feel the poster is OK with that. .......

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this is the purpose of these forums....to give aid, suggestions and learned critique.
A pat on the back is good when due, but that is not the intention of this forum from what I understand.

you do some awesome landscape work Jeff

If someone has a suggestion and can execute a better version of a photo I posted, I'm all for it. That is really one of the only ways to improve and gain a fresh perspective with your imagery post process.

I provide reposts as often as possible. I feel that I can do a much better job of improving an image by actually showing what could be done, rather than just mentioning possible improvements. Sometimes I have a hard time putting into words exactly how I would do something, so a repost goes along nicely with my comment and helps to get the point across.

Definitely a good topic, Jeff. Thanks for sharing!

I do some reposts once in a while. For me, it helps me to learn post processing software and hone my own skills in pp work. I have to say since starting here I've picked up a lot of tips in pp work. Sometimes I don't really care for my images that have reposted by others and sometimes I do. I don't mind someone else's perspective. If I reposted one of the OP's, I do apologize for the offense.

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Originally Posted by Axel Hildebrandt

It is explained in the forum guidelines, point 6:

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And this is exactly why I will not post my images here. It should be the photographer’s choice, IMO.

Don

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Originally Posted by Donald

And this is exactly why I will not post my images here. It should be the photographer’s choice, IMO.

Don

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And I'm sure you work is greatly missed, Don. Sorry that you're uncomfortable with reposts. We're trying to speed up the learning curve, and reposting an image with suggested changes is one of the best ways to do that.

Taking a step back, and thinking about others, just imagine the benefit other visual learners could have by viewing and reading about a repost of your image.

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Originally Posted by Donald

And this is exactly why I will not post my images here. It should be the photographer’s choice, IMO.

Don

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This is unfortunate, Donald. If you look at threads you will see that reposts are the exception, not the rule. Most of the time it is an obvious problem that illustrates common issues. It is supposed to help the poster and I think most people appreciate that someone takes the time. There is, of course, no need to concur with the changes made but I find it always interesting how other people process the same image.

Best,

It's a shame that some people feel their images are so great that they cannot be improved upon. I beg to differ. Fresh perspective is always good and can be very beneficial to said poster. The frequency of reposts by others on other's posted birds is the exception and not very frequent, especially with advanced photographers. I am sure that people just starting out would welcome idea's for improvement that can be demonstrated by a repost. Perhaps those that are adverse to this should state it in their oringinal post.

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Originally Posted by Donald

And this is exactly why I will not post my images here. It should be the photographer’s choice, IMO.

Don

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Hi Donald,
As I tend to do a lot of the re-posting in the landscape forums and am also a moderator there.....I never thought of the offense that I was giving the OP....as the corrections were merely suggestions. I strongly agree with Blake on this subject as this greatly speeds up the learning process. A more positive approach to a re-post would be.......look at it, decide if you like the suggestions........and then if you disagree............disregard them......but they may be beneficial when you take other pictures in the future! Re-posts are to get you to maybe look at your picture another way because as the maker of the image.........we apply many things to that image (feeelings of where we were at the time/emotional high when taking) that other viewers do not feel or add when looking at it. No one says you have to listen to the advice or correction......they are merely suggestions! If someone goes overboard, we will remove the post.
I have had my own images re-posted.......some I like.....some I didn't......but i did get a new perspective that i could definitely apply/try in the future and decide for myself if I like it.
That's what were all here for.to learn and grow!
Roman

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Originally Posted by c.w. moynihan

It's a shame that some people feel their images are so great that they cannot be improved upon.

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Christian, which people, exactly, may you be referring to?

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Originally Posted by Jeffrey Sipress

Christian, which people, exactly, may you be referring to?

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Jeffrey,

with all due respect, I was not referring to any one individual. As with this forum and many others like it, they are places to showcase and/or learn to improve one's images. I am suggesting that if someone doesn't want to have their image re-posted, they should expicitly state it or otherwise run the risk of having someone re-work their image much to their dismay. Perhaps leaving off the words C&C appreciated would suffice rather than stating no reposts.

This is a good discussion topic that you have brought to light and worthy of said healthy discussion.

All the best,

Christian

Why not have a forum where people can post that has a rule of no reworking of them.....Myself I don't mind, because I can always learn from from them and that is one of the reasons I am here.

Bill

I'm of the same mind as many of my fellow moderators: I think that re-posting an image is sometimes an easier and faster way of expressing what it is you're talking about when you write a comment. I don't think you can get away with only posting a worked-up JPEG because you have to explain what you thought should be different, and how you changed it. Without that, it's difficult to understand the perspective that motivated you to suggest the change in the first place.

Jeffrey, I would urge you not to take offense from someone expressing their comments visually as well as through prose. Are some people going to suggest things that you disagree with? Absolutely. But the whole point of this forum is to bounce ideas around with the end goal of improving upon already good work. I just hope that you don't shut people out early because you disagree with some postings.

Donald, I'm of the same mind as Blake: I'm sorry that the way the forums work makes you uneasy, but I do hope you reconsider your position. If not now, maybe in the future.

Yes, I have really appreciated all the responses on this thread and now see that I can tolerate it a whole lot more! David's comment about explaining AND showing makes sense.

Thanks, everyone.

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Originally Posted by Donald

And this is exactly why I will not post my images here. It should be the photographer’s choice, IMO.

Don

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I suppose that is your choice then.

I do reposts (not so much lately as my day job is going down the tubes fast, and I'm busy with that) for two reasons.

One, because in many cases it is quicker and clearer than trying to type out what I would do in an image.

Two, because I find it a great way to learn. When folks let me know if they like / don't like what I did and why, I take note and learn from it.

I think reposting can be a useful tool for illustrating what is being suggested. I sometimes rework an image without reposting just to see if what I have in mind is practicable and useful -- before I try to post a suggestion. I'm here to learn how to make my best better -- with your help -- and to help others do likewise by contributing to the conversation.

On a few occasions I have found myself cringing when a repost from a well-intended contributor has botched an image. Robert rightly makes the point that the repost should be an improvement. I can understand it grates with some of our very fine, very experienced photographers, when they are not.
On the other hand, during one career in advertising, I managed to offend the sensitivities of any number of art directors and photographers - sometimes on purpose :D. The professionals among them were either able to "take it on the chin" and/or argue their point. And when they did that, it forced them to examine and express their concept - which was good learning for everyone.
I like to see comments where the contributor has given thought to the image and says why they like or dislike it; what works or doesn't work for them. The back-slapping "Great image!" comment is of little use and thankfully relatively uncommon in this online family.

Gerald

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Originally Posted by Gerald Kelberg

The back-slapping "Great image!" comment is of little use...
Gerald

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I beg to differ. If it warrants it and is truly a great shot, then so be it. Nothing worse than a silly nit pick (just for the sake of nit-picking) that refers to something out of the photgrapher's control on an otherwise perfect image.

Cheers !

I agree that a reworked repost by another artist can be most helpful; I also agree that I may not personally agree that the rework makes it better, or I may have other reasons for not adopting the rework. But always, I appreciate the time and effort someone has gone to in order to try to help me!!! I consider it a compliment when someone spends their time that way! And after all, the rework is done on only a measly 800x?, highly compressed image, never on someone's original.

Nevertheless, if someone feels strongly about NOT having anyone rework and repost their image, I think that person should state that in each image post they make, and I'm sure everyone will respect that! I'd certainly like to know if someone does not appreciate the reposting/reworking.

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Originally Posted by Anita Rakestraw

I agree that a reworked repost by another artist can be most helpful; I also agree that I may not personally agree that the rework makes it better, or I may have other reasons for not adopting the rework. But always, I appreciate the time and effort someone has gone to in order to try to help me!!! I consider it a compliment when someone spends their time that way! And after all, the rework is done on only a measly 800x?, highly compressed image, never on someone's original.

Nevertheless, if someone feels strongly about NOT having anyone rework and repost their image, I think that person should state that in each image post they make, and I'm sure everyone will respect that! I'd certainly like to know if someone does not appreciate the reposting/reworking.

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Because then we won't waste valuable time trying to help someone who doesn't want it ;)

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Originally Posted by Craig Markham

I think reposting can be a useful tool for illustrating what is being suggested w/o posting a new version. I sometimes rework an image without reposting just to see if what I have in mind is practicable and useful -- before I try to post a suggestion. I'm here to learn how to make my best better -- with your help -- and to help others do likewise by contributing to the conversation.

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I do this too and then many times just explain my suggestions. I have posted and others have reposted different versions and in all cases made me think about my original choices when preparing the image. Sometimes I adopt those suggestions and sometimes I don't but I appreciate them.

I learn something from the comments I get here and the reposts as well. I may not always agree, even with the masters, however I do know I really appreciate it when someone takes their valuable time to try and show me another way....as they say, sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.

Like most members I'm all for reposting - especially when it helps explain a point or suggests an improvement. Just because an image has been reworked by someone doesn't automatically mean it's better or that it becomes the definitive version. That decision is an individual one. I have seen reposts that I do not think were as good as the original but I'm absolutely sure they were all well-intentioned. . . .

Reworked shots help with the learning im for it as long as the info is told its quicker to learn And even if someone messes up by making it worse at leased you can learn what Not to do too.
Rob.